collapse

* Recent Posts

"Christ Is King" by Altair
[Today at 01:09:34 am]


Re: Cill Shift Schedule by SunflowerP
[Yesterday at 11:04:57 pm]


Re: Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pm]


Re: Spring Has Sprung! 2024 Edition by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 10:24:10 pm]


Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by Altair
[March 21, 2024, 02:52:34 pm]

Author Topic: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)  (Read 2962 times)

Sefiru

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 2569
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 891
    • View Profile
Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« on: May 07, 2019, 07:50:06 pm »
If you haven't heard, a law has been proposed in Quebec to ban civil servants 'in positions of authority' from wearing religious symbols while on the job. It's been controversial, to say the least. (link) (link) (audio link)

Personally, I'm with the person in one of the linked articles who called this 'a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.' I'm not sure what such a law is supposed to accomplish, other than pander to xenophobes.

The phrase 'separation of state from religion' was tossed around a bit, but I don't think anyone with sense would view, for example, a police officer wearing a turban as the overall government mandating Sikhism. Also I can't help the feeling that there's a bit of 'Christianity as default' behind this, since it's one religion that doesn't (in most denominations) mandate any particular mode of dress.

Thoughts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me on AO3 & Deviantart

Uneryx

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 225
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 148
    • View Profile
  • Religion: it's eclectic (woogie woogie woogie)
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 11:20:27 pm »
If you haven't heard, a law has been proposed in Quebec to ban civil servants 'in positions of authority' from wearing religious symbols while on the job. It's been controversial, to say the least. (link) (link) (audio link)

Personally, I'm with the person in one of the linked articles who called this 'a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.' I'm not sure what such a law is supposed to accomplish, other than pander to xenophobes.

The phrase 'separation of state from religion' was tossed around a bit, but I don't think anyone with sense would view, for example, a police officer wearing a turban as the overall government mandating Sikhism. Also I can't help the feeling that there's a bit of 'Christianity as default' behind this, since it's one religion that doesn't (in most denominations) mandate any particular mode of dress.

Thoughts?

Ugh. I think you're right in your assessment of this pandering to xenophobes. Specifically since the articles and activists involved mention the hijab more than other modes of dress, which just sounds like anti-Muslim discrimination.

If this law were advocating for something along the lines of enforcing that civil servants are beholden to the government above their religion (a la punishing behavior like Kim Davis's refusing to issue an LGBT couple a marriage certificate for religious reasons despite the law of the land saying otherwise), then okay. But restricting people's right to dress themselves according to their faiths is... icky? And the top of a slippery slope, tbh.

I mean... making it so not even schoolteachers can practice tenets of their religion? Ugh. This is a super iffy law and I hope it doesn't pass.

Hariti

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Washington
  • *
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 320
  • Kyrie Eleison
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Extremely Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/they
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2019, 10:06:03 am »
If you haven't heard, a law has been proposed in Quebec to ban civil servants 'in positions of authority' from wearing religious symbols while on the job. It's been controversial, to say the least.

I'm gonna post before I read other people's comments. I wanna be honest about how I fee; this offends me on fundamental level and makes me very angry. Freedom from religion is important, but so is freedom of religion, and many religions mandate wearing symbols of affiliation.

Sikhism for example. You cannot even be a Sikh without wearing certain very visible symbols. So this law would effectively ban Sikhs from office entirely. Same for Hijabi women.

Mandatory irreligion isn't secularism. That's state atheism, and it is just as bad as having a state religion! Forcing all civil servants and politicians to be overtly irreligious is just as bad as laws that ban atheists from office or require people to be sworn in with a Bible... just the opposite side of the divide.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Sefiru

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 2569
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 891
    • View Profile
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2019, 06:24:24 pm »
Sikhism for example. You cannot even be a Sikh without wearing certain very visible symbols. So this law would effectively ban Sikhs from office entirely. Same for Hijabi women.

Is it just me, or are Sikhs most often dumped on due to prejudice against *other* religions?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me on AO3 & Deviantart

Hariti

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Washington
  • *
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 320
  • Kyrie Eleison
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Extremely Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/they
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 09:23:45 pm »
Is it just me, or are Sikhs most often dumped on due to prejudice against *other* religions?

Yeah, at least in the USA, lots of morons mistake them for Muslims and harass them. (Not to say that harassing Muslims is acceptable in any case; it most certainly is not!)
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 9909
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 732
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2019, 08:58:08 pm »
Is it just me, or are Sikhs most often dumped on due to prejudice against *other* religions?

I don't have any stats to demonstrate that Sikhs get it most, but it's not just you; I too have observed that they get a lot of that - and going back well before the post-9/11 increase in Islamophobia.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

ehbowen

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • Posts: 1396
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 286
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: Quebec Bill 21 (Secularism law)
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 04:22:32 am »
Is it just me, or are Sikhs most often dumped on due to prejudice against *other* religions?
Probably, and especially because Sikhs stand out. My own department manager is a Muslim from the subcontinent, but nothing about him screams "Islamic" in day-to-day activities. It's obvious that he's from a foreign background, but that describes many people in modern day Houston. A Sikh, though, has his religious identity front and center. True, most folks couldn't elaborate on the differences involved...but the ones you're speaking of probably don't care.

Quote
"He is a stranger and therefore a barbarian." It is the only joke the universe ever repeats, because its humor never grows stale.

----Robert A. Heinlein, The Star Beast

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
2593 Views
Last post December 09, 2011, 12:03:31 am
by Asch
22 Replies
3002 Views
Last post June 18, 2013, 04:47:26 am
by sailor
9 Replies
1818 Views
Last post August 02, 2013, 11:34:51 am
by Oíche
4 Replies
916 Views
Last post August 12, 2015, 12:40:58 pm
by veggiewolf
0 Replies
838 Views
Last post September 22, 2015, 07:06:51 pm
by RandallS

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 168
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal