Eastern Religions

[therapeutes]

Hi,

I'm a Greek Pagan who happens to be Asian, and I'm kind of confused as to why Eastern Religions get lumped in with Paganism and witchcraft in most communities. Thankfully, it seems that is not the case here.
Taoism, Hinduism, Shinto, Buddhism, etc. -- they aren't pagan except in the sense that they're non-Christian, but usually the word Pagan also includes the connotation of "reconstructed" and/or New Religion (not that there's anything wrong with either of that -- I'm a Reconstructionist Greek Pagan). Maybe I'm the only one who has that connotation?

I'm also admittedly very annoyed when people try to bring Shinto into pagan discussions when clergy reject that label (or flat out ignore people who try to call it as much). Myself and most other Japanese-descended folks I've spoken to hate when people call it that, and when I try to teach folks about Shinto, I often find myself having to correct the biases that people have inherited from Paganism, like calling our deities "Lord" and "Lady" or them having gemstones associated with them.

For anyone reading this who is potentially interested in Shinto and is also a Pagan -- you absolutely can do both, I would obviously be a hypocrite if I said otherwise! However, it is essential that you keep the practices separate and leave Shinto out of witchcraft. Western witchcraft and Eastern Occultism have different boundaries, taboos etc., and specifically Japanese equivalents are all secretive and require initiation to learn and do properly. Magic, spells etc. are generally taboo in Japan and shrines are usually not really big fans of it being practiced on shrine property.

 If your altars are separate and you worship them separately, it is probably fine, though the worldview with Shinto tends to be more comprehensive and all-encompassing so some people feel that they must make Shinto their 'primary' religion. I'm certainly not the end-all-be-all, but this is both my thoughts as well as the general consensus I've gleaned from more knowledgeable members of the English speaking Shinto community and a priestess.

I hope this makes sense -- please let me know if I worded anything confusingly.
I am very glad to see minimal discussion of Shinto on here as a part of Pagan practice, as that would be inappropriate. I am very glad to also find this forum/site at large!

[SunflowerP]

Hi,

Hi, therapeutes, welcome to TC!

Taoism, Hinduism, Shinto, Buddhism, etc. -- they aren't pagan except in the sense that they're non-Christian, but usually the word Pagan also includes the connotation of "reconstructed" and/or New Religion (not that there's anything wrong with either of that -- I'm a Reconstructionist Greek Pagan). Maybe I'm the only one who has that connotation?

The definition of  'pagan' we usually use on TC is 'not Abrahamic, and identifies as pagan'. So if an individual practicing, f'ex, Hinduism, were to identify as pagan, we wouldn't tell them they were wrong to do so - but any time someone sweepingly identifies Hinduism (or any of the other things you've mentioned, or for that matter the traditional indigenous religions of NA/FN folks, or Saami, or... well, that's a long list!) as being, in general, a pagan religion, people here will challenge it.

I will note that many of these religions do have more in common with many modern pagan religions than just not being Abrahamic - animism and/or polytheism, f'ex - which is why some individual Hindus, NA/FN practitioners of indigenous religions, etc, identify as pagan, or as adjacent and rating a place at the community table - but, again, that's individual, not broadly sweeping any entire religion into the pagan umbrella whether that religion's adherents agree or not.

That said, I'll note that we usually don't take well to someone lecturing at us as one of their first posts. I don't think that was your intent - I think you were mostly just venting about a thing you see elsewhere but were glad to not see here - but we strongly prefer that people try to post in a way that encourages conversation, since we're first and foremost a discussion and debate forum.

I am very glad to see minimal discussion of Shinto on here as a part of Pagan practice, as that would be inappropriate. I am very glad to also find this forum/site at large!

I'm glad you found us, as you sound like you'd fit well here - your self-description made me think of this very old archive post by our founding Host, Randall, that still informs how we look at reconstructionist paganisms, and that I think might interest you.

Sunflower
Host, The Cauldron

[therapeutes]

Hi, therapeutes, welcome to TC!

The definition of  'pagan' we usually use on TC is 'not Abrahamic, and identifies as pagan'. So if an individual practicing, f'ex, Hinduism, were to identify as pagan, we wouldn't tell them they were wrong to do so - but any time someone sweepingly identifies Hinduism (or any of the other things you've mentioned, or for that matter the traditional indigenous religions of NA/FN folks, or Saami, or... well, that's a long list!) as being, in general, a pagan religion, people here will challenge it.

I will note that many of these religions do have more in common with many modern pagan religions than just not being Abrahamic - animism and/or polytheism, f'ex - which is why some individual Hindus, NA/FN practitioners of indigenous religions, etc, identify as pagan, or as adjacent and rating a place at the community table - but, again, that's individual, not broadly sweeping any entire religion into the pagan umbrella whether that religion's adherents agree or not.

That said, I'll note that we usually don't take well to someone lecturing at us as one of their first posts. I don't think that was your intent - I think you were mostly just venting about a thing you see elsewhere but were glad to not see here - but we strongly prefer that people try to post in a way that encourages conversation, since we're first and foremost a discussion and debate forum.

Whoops, sorry about that!
I really agree with what you said about individual vs. overall groupings. I will give that Reconstructionist article a look! I guess functionally maybe I'm more of a revivalist who is trying to be recon? If that makes sense.

[Stranger Things]

Hi,

I

If your altars are separate and you worship them separately, it is probably fine, though the worldview with Shinto tends to be more comprehensive and all-encompassing so some people feel that they must make Shinto their 'primary' religion. I'm certainly not the end-all-be-all, but this is both my thoughts as well as the general consensus I've gleaned from more knowledgeable members of the English speaking Shinto community and a priestess.

As a western Buddhist, I agree. My religions are compatible, but have different backgrounds and goals. I keep them mostly separate except that all statues and other stuff is in the same rooms together. There are a few rituals designed for peace and such where I incorporate both to symbolize the oneness of all things.

I have found, though, that the Hindus I met until now don't mind being fit into the "pagan" box. They have many gods, many pagans follow more than one god or at least acknowledge their existence etc.

I am personally of the opinion that "pagan" is not a word the world should use to name actual spiritual systems. West African/South American religious systems have as much a right to be held separately than Hinduism or Shintoism has. There just seems to be no good term as an umbrella. And I wish we wouldn't need to use an umbrella term at all.

[therapeutes]

I am personally of the opinion that "pagan" is not a word the world should use to name actual spiritual systems. West African/South American religious systems have as much a right to be held separately than Hinduism or Shintoism has. There just seems to be no good term as an umbrella. And I wish we wouldn't need to use an umbrella term at all.

This.
Also, most of my altars usually end up being in the same room out of necessity, but it's worked out. I just try to keep them as physically separate as possible