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Author Topic: Eastern Orthodox Christianity  (Read 13462 times)

Demophon

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2017, 11:03:11 am »
Quote from: Chatelaine;205453
The Jordanville and the Holy Transfiguration books are pretty much the flagships. They follow Slavonic and Greek usage, respectively, which influences buyers. I wouldn't really recommend either for you. They're both considerable investments, both in money and commitment, that had better wait until there is an actual commitment to the prayer rule.

You can find comparisons and reviews of what's currently on the market here. It's not a new page, so some of the books mentioned have revised editions available. I've heard good stuff about the Publican's PB and the St Tikhon, and also about the Old Orthodox Prayer Book, which is not included on the list. There is also this, for something basic. I'm a fan of the Little Red Book, myself, as the translations jive with the ones used in church.

 
Oh awesome, thanks for the suggestions.

I was actually walking past a little Greek Orthodox church the other day, and the door was open for a change, so I decided to go in and snoop around. There was only one person there who was cleaning up, and he ignored me and went back to his cleaning when I said hello, which wasn't the warmest welcome, but I guess I look xeno. Still, it was very beautiful, and something about the tradition is drawing me. If I were heterosexual I would probably be really enthusiastic about learning more and possibly converting, as Orthodoxy has such an ancient beauty without the heresies of Rome.

I don't know any official statistics, but just anecdotally from the Orthodox media I've consumed over the past little while, it seems to attract a lot of Protestant converts. Even I, who went to a sky high Anglo-Catholic church before going Roman, find some of the Roman Catholic dogmas to be rather strange sometimes. I though the Filioque could be viewed as describing the Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son, but I think Roman Catholic tradition has adapted to it too much in a way that they understand both to be the source of the Spirit, which contradicts Athanasius too much for my comfort level. Also, as much as I love the Blessed Virgin Mary and Marian devotion, her immaculate conception and assumption are very odd dogmas, and strange things to be declared infallible teachings.

Chatelaine

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2017, 12:47:20 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;205459
I was actually walking past a little Greek Orthodox church the other day, and the door was open for a change, so I decided to go in and snoop around. There was only one person there who was cleaning up, and he ignored me and went back to his cleaning when I said hello, which wasn't the warmest welcome, but I guess I look xeno.

Keep in mind that the person might not have a lot of English and considered keeping silent better than having to answer questions. How welcoming a parish will be to non-ethnic visitors can depend a lot on how ethnic its membership is. A single-culture community does tend to get insular. More converts, and people in mixed marriages, make for better common ground. How much English is used in services is a good demographic indicator.

Quote from: Demophon;205459
Even I, who went to a sky high Anglo-Catholic church before going Roman, find some of the Roman Catholic dogmas to be rather strange sometimes. I though the Filioque could be viewed as describing the Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son, but I think Roman Catholic tradition has adapted to it too much in a way that they understand both to be the source of the Spirit, which contradicts Athanasius too much for my comfort level. Also, as much as I love the Blessed Virgin Mary and Marian devotion, her immaculate conception and assumption are very odd dogmas, and strange things to be declared infallible teachings.

It was the combination of the filioque and papal supremacy that led to the schism in the first place. The other patriarchs didn't acknowledge the pope's right to modify doctrine without putting the suggestion through a council (and he knew that such a mod wouldn't pass anyway). Once the breakup removed those who could hold the pope accountable, things just snowballed from there.

By the way, I noticed that, on the page I pointed you to, above, only the first three book links are still live, so here are fresh links to the rest:

http://store.antiochianvillage.org/Pocket-Prayer-Book--0111.html
https://www.stspress.com/shop/books/prayer-books/orthodox-daily-prayers/
https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/my-orthodox-prayer-book
https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/my-daily-orthodox-prayer-book
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 12:48:14 pm by Chatelaine »
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Demophon

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2017, 11:04:47 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;205462
Keep in mind that the person might not have a lot of English and considered keeping silent better than having to answer questions. How welcoming a parish will be to non-ethnic visitors can depend a lot on how ethnic its membership is. A single-culture community does tend to get insular. More converts, and people in mixed marriages, make for better common ground. How much English is used in services is a good demographic indicator.


That's true, and I didn't actually take it that personally. The church was in a very Greek area and had absolutely no English on any of its signage, so I assumed he may not have spoken much English.
 
Quote from: Chatelaine;205462
By the way, I noticed that, on the page I pointed you to, above, only the first three book links are still live, so here are fresh links to the rest:

http://store.antiochianvillage.org/Pocket-Prayer-Book--0111.html
https://www.stspress.com/shop/books/prayer-books/orthodox-daily-prayers/
https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/my-orthodox-prayer-book
https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/my-daily-orthodox-prayer-book

 
Oh thanks. You're right, these are a lot more economical than Jordanville or Holy Transfiguration.

Demophon

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2017, 07:56:23 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;205462
It was the combination of the filioque and papal supremacy that led to the schism in the first place. The other patriarchs didn't acknowledge the pope's right to modify doctrine without putting the suggestion through a council (and he knew that such a mod wouldn't pass anyway). Once the breakup removed those who could hold the pope accountable, things just snowballed from there.


Sorry to keep pestering you, and you can tell me to shut up already, but this is an interesting topic. I was just wondering your opinion about Eastern Catholic Churches that come back into communion with Rome. My Canon Law prof was saying that people have to return to the rite that they left when they come into full communion with the Catholic Church, which is why even if, for example, a Ukrainian Orthodox person is received into the Catholic Church at a Latin Rite parish, they are officially received into the Ukrainian Catholic rite. I found it kind of odd, as I don't know if Eastern Churches were ever really "Catholic" in the current sense, even if East and West were once in communion.

Chatelaine

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2017, 06:29:55 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;205585
Sorry to keep pestering you, and you can tell me to shut up already, but this is an interesting topic. I was just wondering your opinion about Eastern Catholic Churches that come back into communion with Rome. My Canon Law prof was saying that people have to return to the rite that they left when they come into full communion with the Catholic Church, which is why even if, for example, a Ukrainian Orthodox person is received into the Catholic Church at a Latin Rite parish, they are officially received into the Ukrainian Catholic rite. I found it kind of odd, as I don't know if Eastern Churches were ever really "Catholic" in the current sense, even if East and West were once in communion.


I'm afraid I can't be much help in this, as I know very little about Eastern Catholics. I suspect the situation had a lot more to do with politics than religion itself, considering how many times the land area that covers Poland and its surrounding countries has been broken up and handed out to different powers, and my history affinity doesn't go that far east.
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BlazRa

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2017, 03:43:56 am »
Christianity is the religion of enslaving Kings seeking to destroy all the world's culture demonize all the world's gods and Burn all of the true religious scriptures, all wars and atrocities throughout history have been perpetuated by Christians even Nazis believe that they were doing God's will by seeking revenge against those they believe killed their savior Christianity 6 to separate you from the spiritual truths of this world and Beyond and make you dependent on a small minority that have the knowledge of magic they Adorn themselves and fancy robes and jewelry and call themselves father.
Jesus is a lie based on many pagan gods. Jews used Pagan imagery to trick heatherns into believing in they're made up deity. Satan is your true Lord he will show you the ways of magic he will show you how to be a master of your life and possibly others and he will allow you to be truly free.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 03:51:11 am by BlazRa »

BlazRa

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2017, 03:52:29 am »
Quote from: BlazRa;205697
Christianity is the religion of enslaving Kings seeking to destroy all the world's culture demonize all the world's gods and Burn all of the true religious scriptures, all wars and atrocities throughout history have been perpetuated by Christians even Nazis believe that they were doing God's will by seeking revenge against those they believe killed their savior Christianity 6 to separate you from the spiritual truths of this world and Beyond and make you dependent on a small minority that have the knowledge of magic they Adorn themselves and fancy robes and jewelry and call themselves father.
Jesus is a lie based on many pagan gods. Jews used Pagan imagery to trick heatherns into believing in they're made up deity. Satan is your true Lord he will show you the ways of magic he will show you how to be a master of your life and possibly others and he will allow you to be truly free.
Christianity's ultimate end goal is to make people lose Faith all together due to the Ridiculousness and Hip-Hop Crissy of its religion leading them to be atheist and thus completely detached from their gods.

ehbowen

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #97 on: May 01, 2017, 07:59:14 am »
Quote from: BlazRa;205697
Christianity is the religion of enslaving Kings seeking to destroy all the world's culture demonize all the world's gods and Burn all of the true religious scriptures, all wars and atrocities throughout history have been perpetuated by Christians even Nazis believe that they were doing God's will by seeking revenge against those they believe killed their savior Christianity 6 to separate you from the spiritual truths of this world and Beyond and make you dependent on a small minority that have the knowledge of magic they Adorn themselves and fancy robes and jewelry and call themselves father.


A few thousand martyrs in the Colosseum might disagree with you. As would Paul of Tarsus and, in my estimation, Charlotte Digges Moon.

I'm not denying that there have been abuses. Serious abuses. But, in my opinion, those abuses have occurred because the Christian faith and church was infiltrated by...Satan.

Quote
For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. [Acts 20:29-30, NKJV]
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Jabberwocky

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2017, 08:59:32 am »
Quote from: BlazRa;205698
Christianity's ultimate end goal is to make people lose Faith all together due to the Ridiculousness and Hip-Hop Crissy of its religion leading them to be atheist and thus completely detached from their gods.

 
You sound like the kind of Christian who claims that atheists secretly believe in God and are angry with him.

(In general, you sound like a Christian apostate. Your entire spiritual worldview is defined by Christianity).
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Chatelaine

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2017, 09:12:44 am »
Quote from: BlazRa;205698
Christianity's ultimate end goal is to make people lose Faith all together due to the Ridiculousness and Hip-Hop Crissy of its religion leading them to be atheist and thus completely detached from their gods.


Troll rating: 2/10

Now back to our regularly scheduled sedate interaction.
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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2017, 01:02:12 pm »
Quote from: BlazRa;205697



 
*** MOD HAT ON ***
BlazRa,

DO NOT make blanket condemnations of peoples, cultures, or religions -- this is  in the rules you agreed to when you registered on the forum, and you have broken that rule in every post you have made here.

As well, in this post your edit was well over the 2-3 minute limit and it was to remove the required quote code and text. Normally that would only elicit a reminder, but in this case you are being given a warning, a strike, and a week-long gag, which I suggest you use to reread the rules very carefully.

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #101 on: May 01, 2017, 03:15:16 pm »
Quote from: Morag;205724
*** MOD HAT ON ***
Normally that would only elicit a reminder, but in this case you are being given a warning, a strike, and a week-long gag, which I suggest you use to reread the rules very carefully.


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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2017, 08:11:41 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;179518
I don't really have specific questions or a direction in which I want this thread to go, I was just curious whether people have a background or other experiences in the Orthodox Church (whether it be Greek, Russian, etc.), and if they would be open to sharing those experiences. It seems like a beautiful tradition, highly ceremonial, with lots of incense, the kissing of icons, bowing down on the floor, and so on. The deep reverence of the Eastern Orthodox traditions are very moving.

 
I cannot say that I have had any direct experience with the Eastern Orthodox Church, but I have known people who were practitioners, and have seen Orthodox churches and listened to Orthodox religious services. I can certainly see the appeal. If I were still Christian, I would consider converting to Orthodoxy, because it seems like a very spiritual, sincere, and beautiful tradition.

Since I am not Christian, and don't expect I will be Christian any time soon, I admire the religion from a respectful distance. I would treat an Orthodox icon with the same respect I afford my own divine objects, and feel genuine reverence for them. I would love to attend an orthodox religious service if I were ever invited!

I hope you find the right religion for your needs! There are many options out there, so don't give up and settle for something you don't feel comfortable with. Have you given any serious consideration to Eastern Catholicism? (I don't even know if it is possible for a western-rite Catholic to become an Eastern Catholic, but it seems like that might suit your needs.)
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Demophon

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Re: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2017, 11:06:09 pm »
Quote from: EnderDragonFire;205766
I hope you find the right religion for your needs! There are many options out there, so don't give up and settle for something you don't feel comfortable with. Have you given any serious consideration to Eastern Catholicism? (I don't even know if it is possible for a western-rite Catholic to become an Eastern Catholic, but it seems like that might suit your needs.)

 
I'm sure it is possible, I think I would just need the permission of my bishop to switch. It's not really necessary if I wanted to attend a Byzantine Rite Catholic church, as they are in communion with Rome, so I could receive the Eucharist and everything. It would really only become an issue if I wanted to be ordained, as I could only be ordained in my own Rite unless I formally switched, and I think if I had children, they could only be baptized in the Rite their parents belong to, unless they were initiated after a certain age (14, if I'm not mistaken), they could choose whatever Rite they wanted. My parish actually has quite a few ex-Orthodox people who were received into their Byzantine Catholic Rite, but still attend my Latin Rite parish without an issue. I'm sure it's a lot more convenient to just go to the local Roman Catholic Church than find some obscure Eastern Catholic parish.

I went on a bit of an Amazon binge recently, getting Kallistos Ware's The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way. Theologically, the Eastern Orthodox Church just seems to make a lot more sense than Roman Catholicism, and they've preserved ancient traditions more authentically. I would probably have converted to Orthodoxy when I was initially looking into Christianity, but I hadn't had much exposure to it, and it can give the impression that it's very tied to ethnicity. On the other hand, being in communion with the See of Peter was important to me at one time because I perceived it to be the most important apostolic See, and the most ancient tradition of Christianity, though I don't know if I still feel that way. An Eastern Rite Catholic parish might be a good compromise, as an Eastern Church in communion with the Holy See of Rome, but I think they are a bit strange, as they have been brought into the Catholic Church without really trying to reconcile theological differences they have with the western Church.

I just kind of feel apathetic about church and my Christian practice right now. I do really like my Catholic parish, as I have good friends there and the priest is really supportive, but I find that there's a lot missing, spiritually. Part of it is liturgical, as I favour a very high, traditional liturgy, which is rare in Roman Catholicism currently, and I don't feel very aligned with some of the theology and structure of the Roman Church. I'm not exactly keen on going back to Anglicanism either, even though there were aspects of it that I did find very inspiring. I think there was a lot of patristic influence on the Book of Common Prayer, and while it's not identical to Orthodoxy, there's some definite common ground. Not that Anglicans really follow it anymore, anyway. Anglicanism has become a bit of a free-for-all. Sometimes I just think I don't find Christianity in general very satisfying, but maybe studying Eastern Orthodoxy a bit more deeply will clarify where I stand with the whole thing.

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