christianity from paganism

[arete]

What does any of this have to do with the notion of Christianity being the 'true religion'?

All religions have credit. Not just Christianity.

[RandallS]

The Christianity is the only true religion notion bothers me. That's why I made this thread.

What does the undeniable fact that many Christians believe that their religion is the only true religion have to do with this thread? Even if it were true that Christianity was purposefully created from parts of other religions (which claim, for the record, is not supported by evidence), Christianity could still be the only true religion. The way something originated often has nothing to do with whether that something is "true."

BTW, the fact that many Christians believe their religion is the only true religion does not make it so. They cannot prove it is true to non-believers let alone prove that all other religions are false to believers in those other religions. Heck, as not all Christians believe that Christianity is the only true religion, Christians who believe it is the only true religion cannot even convince all their fellow Christians that it is.

[Fixed the last sentence by replacing the period with the comma.]

[Yei]

All religions have credit. Not just Christianity.

I think we all already knew that. Its why most of us are here.

Also, how do you go from Christianity is 'not just a copy of Paganims' to 'Christianity is true'?

[Yei]

It describes love between a man and a woman. I hope the old testament doesn't confine love only in this circumstance. Or it does? 

Well Pornhub has been sponsoring a lot of things lately. Maybe the Bible is about to get a special 'Adult' edition.

[arete]

Well Pornhub has been sponsoring a lot of things lately. Maybe the Bible is about to get a special 'Adult' edition.

hahahahahahahaha what a great post!

[Chatelaine]

It describes love between a man and a woman. I hope the old testament doesn't confine love only in this circumstance. Or it does? 

There's plenty of love between men, if that's how you'd rather roll.

[PerditaPickle]

The Christianity is the only true religion notion bothers me. That's why I made this thread.

Well I don't subscribe to that view and I'm guessing you don't either (plus a lot of other members here) - so I say that we continue to do our own thing and don't concern ourselves with those who argue we're wrong.

All religions have credit. Not just Christianity.

Agreed, for the most part.

[SunflowerP]

It describes love between a man and a woman. I hope the old testament doesn't confine love only in this circumstance. Or it does? 

Not at all. What came immediately to my own mind (but which I didn't post, because Morag's seemed like a better example) was the story of Ruth and her mother-in-law Naomi - though Ruth's words in 1 Ruth 16-17 are often used in wedding ceremonies, they originally weren't about marriage at all.

A search on Bible Gateway (the source Morag and I are both linking to) gives 686 results for the word 'love', of which 425, well over half, are to books in the Old Testament. They deal with love of one's siblings, parents, or children; with loving God or God's love; with loving one's neighbor and with showing love to foreigners in one's land; love of one's tribe/people... many kinds of love besides loving one's spouse, or prospective spouse.

Sunflower

[Eastling]

A search on Bible Gateway (the source Morag and I are both linking to) gives 686 results for the word 'love', of which 425, well over half, are to books in the Old Testament. They deal with love of one's siblings, parents, or children; with loving God or God's love; with loving one's neighbor and with showing love to foreigners in one's land; love of one's tribe/people... many kinds of love besides loving one's spouse, or prospective spouse.

I have a particularly fondness for one of the more abstract ones, myself:

יטוַֽאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם

Ve-ahavtem et hager ki gerim hayitem be-eretz Mitzrayim, meaning, "You shall love the stranger as yourself, for you were a stranger in the land of Egypt." By identifying the Jewish suffering in the mythic time of "the Land of the Narrows" (the literal meaning of Mitzrayim) with the plight of immigrants and all people made into "strangers" by their land, it commands Jewish people in the real world to treat them with compassion in the real world.

[Zlote Jablko]

Even if it were true that Christianity was purposefully created from parts of other religions (which claim, for the record, is not supported by evidence), Christianity could still be the only true religion. The way something originated often has nothing to do with whether that something is "true."

Now that’s something I would disagree with. The traditional narrative of Christianity is that it is the natural fulfillment of Jewish scripture and only Jewish scripture. If Christianity is heavily influenced by, say, Platonism (and many scholars would say there is evidence of this.) that should at least be an argument for a broader religious truth than that which is offered by the Abrahamic tradition alone.

A lot of the stuff out there on Christianity borrowing from paganism is not well researched, but there is a legitimate academic argument for it in addition to the pop-cultural ones from sources like zeitgeist.

[Louisvillian]

A lot of the stuff out there on Christianity borrowing from paganism is not well researched, but there is a legitimate academic argument for it...

My understanding is that the borrowings from pre-Christian religion is mostly surface-level. The deeper substance is a mix of Judaism and Hellenic philosophy, like a Hellenistic Judaism 2.0, but still predominantly hinged on Second Temple Jewish prophecy and scripture.

[arete]

Not at all. What came immediately to my own mind (but which I didn't post, because Morag's seemed like a better example) was the story of Ruth and her mother-in-law Naomi - though Ruth's words in 1 Ruth 16-17 are often used in wedding ceremonies, they originally weren't about marriage at all.

A search on Bible Gateway (the source Morag and I are both linking to) gives 686 results for the word 'love', of which 425, well over half, are to books in the Old Testament. They deal with love of one's siblings, parents, or children; with loving God or God's love; with loving one's neighbor and with showing love to foreigners in one's land; love of one's tribe/people... many kinds of love besides loving one's spouse, or prospective spouse.

Sunflower

Ah that's great! It's good to know that there is love in the OT. The greek religion makes love the motivational power of the universe. I thought christianity took that motivational kind of love from the greek religion.

[Zlote Jablko]

My understanding is that the borrowings from pre-Christian religion is mostly surface-level. The deeper substance is a mix of Judaism and Hellenic philosophy, like a Hellenistic Judaism 2.0, but still predominantly hinged on Second Temple Jewish prophecy and scripture.

It’s debatable how “surface level” Hellenism in Christianity is. The concepts of hypostases or hell had a big impact on the religion we know today. Hellenistic Judaism 2.0 is probably not a bad way to look at it.

Greek philosophy is probably the most widely accepted Hellenistic influence, but there may be others. Many point to the concept of God having a son who died and was reborn, as well as the idea of salvation by initiation. Some of the wording in the New Testament has been taken for a direct quote from Euripides Bacchae (To kick against a goad.) as well as some of the Gospel narrative.

On top of that, there were the mystery religions. Plato’s republic describes the Orphics going door to door, offering purification for crimes and blessings in the afterlife to those who were initiated. We know that some of these basic ideas survived up to the Mithraism mysteries. These are more controversial claims, but not without evidence. Roman era Pagans themselves leveled these accusations at early Christianity, during the time of Celsus for example.

[MamaThistle]

Yeah yeah yeah and they also stole candles.

Breaking news: basic human properties are found in basic humans!

I loled at this. 

[MamaThistle]

The Christianity is the only true religion notion bothers me. That's why I made this thread.

It is simply a belief. One that you can certainly disagree with, but it is not actually relevant to your original claim.

Also, it is the belief of one true *God* that some Christians belief in, I don't know what believing in religion is. This belief is also not exactly uniform, historically or currently. The basis of this belief is weak and confusing. There are definite hints of henotheism and monolatrism throughout Christianity, even if they do not realize it. The term monotheism is post Christianity and was actually a debate within Christianity itself. () I personally do not believe that Christianity or any religion I know of is monotheistic in a strict sense of the word and I think we give that term way too much attention in general.

Also, instead of focusing on how Christianity "stole" from pagans, a more interesting idea is how we view historical paganism through a Christian lens. It does not matter if you are Christian or not, all that matters is that our historians were. Our understanding of pre-Christian pagan religions is limited and is clouded by Christian-and often western-viewpoints; thus, it is difficult to define what was "purely pagan" historically. Using the term pagan to describe pre-Christian societies is problematic itself, as the origin of the term is difficult to derive. However, in most definitions paganism was seemly a term used by Christians to describe non-Christians. Therefore, the term itself is polluted by Christian understanding.  We cannot really assign something to be original to paganism when we cannot clearly define paganism itself outside of Christianity.