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Author Topic: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees  (Read 10086 times)

sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 05:06:30 pm »
Quote from: Jack;94953
That's... A bit of an assumption, isn't it? I wouldn't assume a contract is illegal just because the KKK wouldn't like it.

 
No, I don't think so.

mandrina

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 05:13:35 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94974
No, I don't think so.

 
I figured I'd let Randall be specific about the clauses the kkk wouldn't like.
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mandrina

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 05:16:04 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94973
And you have to lie until your booked up period is over.  It's not just the one partner, it could be the partner's friends who call every few days to make sure you really booked up and turning down business.

 
Well, that's why discriminating in a possibly illegal fashion is a pain in the butt, you have to give up business to keep it from being illegal.  You can't just lie.
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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 05:48:00 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94942
Sounds like your standard contract is illegal then.

Sounds like you are talking about what you haven't seen.
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sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 05:57:37 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;94980
Sounds like you are talking about what you haven't seen.

 
Just waiting for you to post the clauses.

Owl

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2013, 10:56:13 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;94829
My first thought was: do the owners of this bakery have a crippling fear of money and success?

 
Mine too.  There is a whole group of people who have been told for years they couldn't marry and now can.  Wouldn't many of them have the biggest fanciest wedding they could afford just because?  Makes sense to me.
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Fireof9

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2013, 11:12:44 pm »
Quote from: Owl;95027
Mine too.  There is a whole group of people who have been told for years they couldn't marry and now can.  Wouldn't many of them have the biggest fanciest wedding they could afford just because?  Makes sense to me.

 If I lived in the states and was in any kind of business that made a profit from weddings I would be all up there voting for gay marriage to be legal. Of course it should be cause its stupid to not let two people in love get married, but man I would be all over the money I could make as well.
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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2013, 08:18:09 am »
Quote from: Fireof9;95030
If I lived in the states and was in any kind of business that made a profit from weddings I would be all up there voting for gay marriage to be legal. Of course it should be cause its stupid to not let two people in love get married, but man I would be all over the money I could make as well.


This was my point to the recalcitrant Democratic state senator when I met with her trying to swing her vote when we were fighting for same-sex marriage here in NY. I handed her a list I'd compiled of all the wedding-related businesses in her district and pointed out to her that since NY recognizes SSMs from out of state, her opposition to SSM didn't keep married same-sex couples out of NY--it just deprived her district of $ and jobs during a recession.

I asked one of the businessespeople I reached on the phone when I was compiling the list if she'd be interested in the business from same-sex marriages. Her response: "What color is their money?"
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Altair

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2013, 08:27:12 am »
Quote from: Jack;94771
In the state of Oregon, it's illegal for a business to discriminate based on protected classes like race, religion, or sexual orientation.

 
Precisely. So if the bakery can legally refuse to serve the needs of gays and lesbians getting married, then fair is fair--gays and lesbian wedding professionals should be able to refuse to serve all the members of anti-LGBT religions.

Now *that* would be delicious! Kiss good-bye to all those wedding planners, Catholics and Mormons...and if you thought you'd be having any flowers at this wedding, fuhgeddaboutit...
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Jack

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Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2013, 12:13:09 pm »
Quote from: Altair;95060
Precisely. So if the bakery can legally refuse to serve the needs of gays and lesbians getting married, then fair is fair--gays and lesbian wedding professionals should be able to refuse to serve all the members of anti-LGBT religions.

Except that that's the opposite of what I said. :)
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Altair

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2013, 02:14:02 pm »
Quote from: Jack;95085
Except that that's the opposite of what I said. :)

 
I know. I'm inverting the situation to demonstrate the absurdity of the bakery's position.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Jack

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2013, 03:35:22 pm »
Quote from: Altair;95100
I know. I'm inverting the situation to demonstrate the absurdity of the bakery's position.

 
And clearly that's what I get for reading the forum too early in the day... XD
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sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2013, 03:42:20 pm »
Quote from: Altair;95060
Precisely. So if the bakery can legally refuse to serve the needs of gays and lesbians getting married, then fair is fair--gays and lesbian wedding professionals should be able to refuse to serve all the members of anti-LGBT religions.

Now *that* would be delicious! Kiss good-bye to all those wedding planners, Catholics and Mormons...and if you thought you'd be having any flowers at this wedding, fuhgeddaboutit...

 
If the gay LGBT wedding planners have a sincerely held religious belief about, sure. The basis for this is 1st amendment vs Civil Rights Act.  Can the state force a person to violate their religious beliefs, and if so, when can the govt trod on religious beliefs for furtherance of something else.

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2013, 04:16:28 pm »
Quote from: sailor;95108
If the gay LGBT wedding planners have a sincerely held religious belief about, sure. The basis for this is 1st amendment vs Civil Rights Act.  Can the state force a person to violate their religious beliefs, and if so, when can the govt trod on religious beliefs for furtherance of something else.

 
I have the sincerely held religious belief that I am a worthwhile human being. My religious beliefs get trod on all the time. :)
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Altair

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2013, 05:00:11 pm »
Quote from: sailor;95108
If the gay LGBT wedding planners have a sincerely held religious belief about, sure. The basis for this is 1st amendment vs Civil Rights Act.  Can the state force a person to violate their religious beliefs, and if so, when can the govt trod on religious beliefs for furtherance of something else.


Screw that. If it ever reaches the point in this country that religionists can ignore nondiscrimination laws regarding sexual orientation because of their religious beliefs, but LGBT folks can't ignore nondiscrimination laws regarding religion simply because their belief (in their human dignity, as Jack suggested) isn't religiously based, then there's a fundamental lack of fairness. I for one would rise up in non-stop civil disobedience against that.

But it will never come to that. Because if religionists are ever given such an exemption, it must apply to *all* religions...including religions that hold white supremacy as a central tenet. And that would give racists everywhere the right to ignore nondiscrimination laws regarding race/ethnicity. That's an outcome the powers that be in this country would *never* countenance.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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