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Author Topic: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees  (Read 10122 times)

Jack

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 10:36:52 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94806
Are you going to answer the original question?

 
I did answer your question. You asked:

Quote
who would you exclude from a store?


And I said that when I worked in retail, I never came across a reason to ask a customer to leave.

If you can't actually read that as an answer to your question, I don't know what else to tell you.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2013, 10:43:06 pm »
Quote from: Jack;94808
I did answer your question. You asked:



And I said that when I worked in retail, I never came across a reason to ask a customer to leave.

If you can't actually read that as an answer to your question, I don't know what else to tell you.

 
So you'd expect there to be no legal basis to exclude, nor business repercussions if a bunch of skin heads wearing racist and sexist t-shirts decided to hang out in the liberal gay pagan women's book & coffee store buying coffee every hour so they are legally customers?

Jack

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2013, 10:48:23 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94812
So you'd expect there to be no legal basis to exclude, nor business repercussions if a bunch of skin heads wearing racist and sexist t-shirts decided to hang out in the liberal gay pagan women's book & coffee store buying coffee every hour so they are legally customers?

 
As long as they're not breaking the law, they're welcome to stand there and give us their money while we talk loudly about how awesome vaginas are.

I do think there could be some business repercussions, because their presence would make other liberal gay pagan women uncomfortable, but I'll just have to sadly explain to them that this is how the patriarchy works - asshole white men with too much time on their hands ruin things for everyone else.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

stephyjh

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Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2013, 10:50:21 pm »
Quote from: Jack;94774
That doesn't make any sense to me, to say that people can't discriminate is taking away the rights of innocent people. I think there's a huge difference between "get out of my store, asshole" and "get out of my store, icky gay person". It's pretty easy to write laws that make the latter illegal without outlawing the former.

My point wasn't that the law SHOULDN'T be different. It absolutely should. But here, it isn't, so to require service to be rendered would invalidate the content of the existing law.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

Jack

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2013, 10:54:26 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;94816
My point wasn't that the law SHOULDN'T be different. It absolutely should. But here, it isn't, so to require service to be rendered would invalidate the content of the existing law.

 
I think I misread you, then. I'd assumed that any law written to prevent discrimination in that respect would specify the classes it protected.
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Lokabrenna

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2013, 11:19:25 pm »
Quote from: Jack;94657
Same-sex couple files complaint against Gresham bakery that refused to make wedding cake



Yes, I totally remember that part in the Bible where it says "Thou Shalt Not Bake Pastries For The Gays." Also, it's against state law to discriminate, so it doesn't matter what Jesus has against pastries.

Wasn't this a think, like, five years ago? Do they think they're Chik-Fil-A? This bullshit disgusts me.

(Now if he said he refused to bake fig pie because God Hates Figs, I'd have to at least bow to his theology...)


My first thought was: do the owners of this bakery have a crippling fear of money and success?

Jack

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2013, 11:27:55 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;94829
My first thought was: do the owners of this bakery have a crippling fear of money and success?

 
Perhaps they're afraid of vampires and they heard that money from gay people is covered in glitter?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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mandrina

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2013, 07:59:36 am »
Quote from: sailor;94799
Or they feel that their moral believes are more valuable than the business they'll lose.

 
Then their moral beliefs are more valuable than the business they will lose and they will go out of business.  I'll leave it to Randall to answer the church of the creator question, but as a nurse, I get to work with all kinds and I can't say no.  I can't refuse anyone's business once the facility has taken them and honestly, they discriminate based on payer status and care needs only.  I have to listen to them say nigger and spick and whatever else and the most I can really do is ask social work to talk with them.  If my moral beliefs were so strong the I couldn't take care of people with different beliefs than me, . I'd better get out of nursing.
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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2013, 08:21:06 am »
Quote from: sailor;94798
So, I was getting paid to horrible,but not illegal, things is different than volunteering to do horrible things?  so Randall would have no moral or legal basis to turn down running the KKK's web forum if he is offered his standard rates?  Or since the KKK isn't a religious group, go with Church of the Creator.

I wouldn't turn down the KKK because they are the KKK, but they would likely find out after discussing their needs with me that they would not want to hire me because of clauses in my standard contract and the fact that their project would have to be delayed until I finished current projects (which can take forever at times).
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sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2013, 03:38:35 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;94863
I wouldn't turn down the KKK because they are the KKK, but they would likely find out after discussing their needs with me that they would not want to hire me because of clauses in my standard contract and the fact that their project would have to be delayed until I finished current projects (which can take forever at times).

 
Sounds like your standard contract is illegal then.

Jack

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Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2013, 04:14:34 pm »
Quote from: sailor;94942
Sounds like your standard contract is illegal then.

That's... A bit of an assumption, isn't it? I wouldn't assume a contract is illegal just because the KKK wouldn't like it.
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RedHawk

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 04:19:25 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;94785
Well obviously the bakery in question has more jobs than they know what to do with, that they can afford to not take the business.

 
I personally think that if the owner wanted to not bake a cake for her then he should of said, "I'm sorry but I'm booked up so I can't make the cake. However, there's another bakery that will be able to fill your order. That way no one would be attacked and the woman would of had her wedding cake.

mandrina

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2013, 04:34:49 pm »
Quote from: RedHawk;94956
I personally think that if the owner wanted to not bake a cake for her then he should of said, "I'm sorry but I'm booked up so I can't make the cake. However, there's another bakery that will be able to fill your order. That way no one would be attacked and the woman would of had her wedding cake.

 
Chances are they were well into the 'sure, I can do that, give me your info' stage before the woman learned it was same-sex.  But if they weren't, then she would have to remember she was full up for at least a day, just in case they got the wind up and the other partner called to be sure.
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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 04:52:40 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;94964
Chances are they were well into the 'sure, I can do that, give me your info' stage before the woman learned it was same-sex.  But if they weren't, then she would have to remember she was full up for at least a day, just in case they got the wind up and the other partner called to be sure.

 
Agreed. If your going to lie make it constant.

sailor

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Re: Bakery Refuses Same Sex Wedding Cake Order, Sees
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 05:04:44 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;94964
Chances are they were well into the 'sure, I can do that, give me your info' stage before the woman learned it was same-sex.  But if they weren't, then she would have to remember she was full up for at least a day, just in case they got the wind up and the other partner called to be sure.

 
And you have to lie until your booked up period is over.  It's not just the one partner, it could be the partner's friends who call every few days to make sure you really booked up and turning down business.

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