Atheism and Paganism

[EclecticWheel]

Since I'm not Christian, this isn't mine to address. But I'm curious whether our several other Christian members feel that you've accurately spoken for their worldviews.

Sunflower

I suppose in the Episcopal Church there are believed to be spiritual forces of evil since the devil is renounced at baptism, but how literally that's taken or what the devil is in someone's opinion will vary from one Episcopalian to the next.  I have a friend (who isn't Episcopalian but still Christian) who is more influenced by Jewish interpretations on this matter than typical Christian ones.

The idea of a cosmic war isn't something I hear about in the Episcopal Church, though there is an emphasis at baptism in resisting evil and striving for justice and peace which can be a struggle.  And battling our own vices can be a "war" of sorts, but this is metaphorical language.

We are more likely in my experience to talk about the world and universe in terms of the Incarnation, as a medium of God's grace, like a sacrament. 

There is no consensus I know of on the end of the world or second coming.  My priest says the second coming may be each person's personal encounter with God at death -- since God is beyond time those encounters may be for him all one event.

[Darkhawk]

Since I'm not Christian, this isn't mine to address. But I'm curious whether our several other Christian members feel that you've accurately spoken for their worldviews.

No longer Christian, but I can conclusively say that I have literally never attended a church that put forward anything remotely approaching that theology.  (In the several denominations where I have attended churches.)  Nor have I ever attended a church in which I can recall any commentary about the concept of damnation other than my own Unitarian Universalist congregation.  (And UUs are no longer Christian, really, though there are Christian UUs.)

I do read Richard Beck and have appreciated his arguments about the importance of spiritual warfare to understanding of a Christian worldview, but since that model requires embracing the weakness and fragility of their god I suspect it will not be popular with many of the more muscular Christians.

[MadZealot]

Since I'm not Christian, this isn't mine to address. But I'm curious whether our several other Christian members feel that you've accurately spoken for their worldviews.

I've only ever heard the 'spiritual warfare' stuff from fundamentalist types. Personally I think these types give de Debbil way too much power and rent-free headspace.

I've got a good buddy who's a Priest in an Old Catholic line. He doesn't really believe in a hell or a devil. Personally (again) I'm inclined to believe him.

[Redfaery]

I've only ever heard the 'spiritual warfare' stuff from fundamentalist types. Personally I think these types give de Debbil way too much power and rent-free headspace.

I've got a good buddy who's a Priest in an Old Catholic line. He doesn't really believe in a hell or a devil. Personally (again) I'm inclined to believe him.

This has been my experience as well. My aunt is a Presbyterian minister. She doubts the existence of hell. Also, my parents' Episcopal priest has denounced "end times" rhetoric from the pulpit. I went to a conservative evangelical high school (2 different ones actually). The discourse there was much different.

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[PanSoka]

I dunno, there are plenty of people, and deities, who respect someone who stands up for themselves and refuses to put up with bad treatment.

Frankly, I too would not want to associate with anyone, mortal or divine, who caused/allowed bad things to happen to me to further some undisclosed "plan" of theirs. Informed consent is a human right.

Just as a general update for everyone. I’ve tried to go find another hill. I’m going to research and delve into pagan religions and see if any of them really speak to me. I currently believe that god does not exist but maybe during my search I can be convinced otherwise.

[Sefiru]

I currently believe that god does not exist but maybe during my search I can be convinced otherwise.

You might consider looking into what various people mean by the word "god". And by the word "exist". There's quite a lot of diversity on both counts.

For what it's worth, by the usual Evangelical Christian definitions, I do not believe that "God exists", but going by other definitions of those words, I do.

[PanSoka]

You might consider looking into what various people mean by the word "god". And by the word "exist". There's quite a lot of diversity on both counts.

For what it's worth, by the usual Evangelical Christian definitions, I do not believe that "God exists", but going by other definitions of those words, I do.

For me, god does not exist as a sentient being. I believe there is a universal energy that is within all things. Currently I don’t believe this energy can be influenced in any way other than physical. The only experience I have with this energy is when I’m outside in nature. But it’s not something I experience as god. But I’m going to start looking into different pagan paths and see if anything jumps out at me.

[EclecticWheel]

For me, god does not exist as a sentient being. I believe there is a universal energy that is within all things. Currently I don’t believe this energy can be influenced in any way other than physical. The only experience I have with this energy is when I’m outside in nature. But it’s not something I experience as god. But I’m going to start looking into different pagan paths and see if anything jumps out at me.

Good luck with your exploration!  One of the things I love about what I've experienced of neo-paganism is that it is usually more oriented toward practice and experience than orthodoxy.  There is room for your beliefs and for your non-beliefs.

I wanted to share a couple of more blog articles with you that I found fascinating.  They offer an experiential approach to gods and religion rather than a belief centered one.  If you're interested in them at all, take a look, and a happy journey to you!

https://polygnosticways.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/i-need-secular-theism-not-antitheism/

https://polygnosticways.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/gods-gnosis-and-gray-areas-essential-reading-and-watching/

[PanSoka]

Good luck with your exploration!  One of the things I love about what I've experienced of neo-paganism is that it is usually more oriented toward practice and experience than orthodoxy.  There is room for your beliefs and for your non-beliefs.

I wanted to share a couple of more blog articles with you that I found fascinating.  They offer an experiential approach to gods and religion rather than a belief centered one.  If you're interested in them at all, take a look, and a happy journey to you!

https://polygnosticways.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/i-need-secular-theism-not-antitheism/

https://polygnosticways.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/gods-gnosis-and-gray-areas-essential-reading-and-watching/

Thank you! I will most certainly give those a read!

[Brocolitia]

Yay! You have clicked on my thread so I'm hopeful I can get a good conversation going. I have tried reaching out to pagans before about this topic and it was a horrible disaster. I'm hoping the people here will be much more open to a conversation.

First off, hello fellow Virginian!

I know I am way late to this game but thought I would jump in as it sounds like you're dealing with something that really got me when I first felt "the draw" too. In short, I think you and I have very similar beliefs. I, too, consider myself, essentially, an atheist pagan. I was strictly atheist for a long time, probably about 10 years. However, I was always drawn to nature and could never shake that. Finally, I looked into it and found out atheistic paganism is a thing. I also feel as though there is some energy that connects living things, but it's not a deity. It's just the energy that we share due to the life cycle. For me, Paganism is more about connecting with nature and that energy. I celebrate all of the sabbats because it keeps me in the flow of what nature's doing, but I admittedly don't do rituals to specific deities. Well at any rate, I just had to drop in and share my two cents and let you know you're not alone in these thoughts/feelings. Hopefully things have been going well for you and I wish you all the best!

[Naunau]

I, too, consider myself, essentially, an atheist pagan.

I think I'm technically another one. Atheist probably because of not having been raised religiously, and pagan because a more recent conscious rejection of a lot of Abrahamic thought, of Christianization/Islamization and of colonialism. I strangely identify with the hill description of the original post even though I don't remember ever being on the top of the hill.

I also remember that originally the word pagan was also meant to include atheists, so it's really that weird.

[arete]

I do believe in a universal energy that is within everything and everyone. It is the energy that holds atoms together. It is the energy of fire, and the energy of rain. Potential and kenetic energy. Emotions. Planets and suns. Its all part of a vast flowing network of energy, all feeding into each other. Never ceasing, always existing. In a way, I guess you could call that "god". But I don't believe this energy to be sentient. At least not as a whole. Parts of it can be sentient, in the way you and I are sentient. My cat is sentient. Plants are sentient. Anything with life, is sentient. But potential energy doesn't know that it will become kenetic energy. It doesn't make that conscious decision. Wind, for me at least, is not consciously trying to blow my house over (though sometimes I swear its trying). Wind is just wind. It just is.

Wind has life so it is sentient. The ''energy'' you describe is God. All life manifestations are living beings, including rocks and the wind.

[SunflowerP]

Wind has life so it is sentient. The ''energy'' you describe is God. All life manifestations are living beings, including rocks and the wind.

How, exactly, are you defining 'life', here?

Sunflower

[arete]

How, exactly, are you defining 'life', here?

Sunflower

Logical existence.  The rock exists and it follows nature's laws. And that's life.

[Sefiru]

Logical existence.  The rock exists and it follows nature's laws. And that's life.

I dunno ... maybe the animists here will disagree with me, but I would not say "existence" is the same thing as "life". To me "life" requires at least growth, taking in nutrients, excreting waste, and responding to stimuli (I've never seen a rock turn towards the sun). Also usually included in the definition are reproduction, having a skin or membrane, and having stable internal chemistry.