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Author Topic: Allegiance to the RCC  (Read 1401 times)

Caleb Oak

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Re: Allegiance to the RCC
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2020, 02:55:34 pm »
That's very true, except it's a bit difficult when those very leaders are supposed to be carried to a higher standard, and represent the ideals. So when we had Magdalene Laundries that imprisoned tens of thousands of people, mass graves of innocent babies, countless cases of sexual abuse under the Christian Brothers, and the very same Priests that enforced their victims to have abortions into recent years, then enforced the same opposition against the Repeal the 8th Amendment (abortion)it's more than just a few corrupt leaders, it's an epidemic that was sustained by the head of the RCC itself.

So I agree traditions need to be changed, which there has been much talk about, and minor steps within the last year or so, so long may it continue.
Agreed. (What head do you mean? John Paul II?)

And I hope things will speed up like the Hyperdrive of an Imperial Class Star Destroyer.  8)

Micheál

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Re: Allegiance to the RCC
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2020, 05:53:11 pm »
Agreed. (What head do you mean? John Paul II?)

And I hope things will speed up like the Hyperdrive of an Imperial Class Star Destroyer.  8)
I believe he made apologies if I can remember, but that's been a trend for Popes to condemn such acts, and promise justice, but that's where it ends. When you have at the very least a few thousand known priests out there raping people(might be harsh words, but that's what it is by today's standards), it's hard to convince the public that this happened unknown.

Lol, well that's setting the standard a bit high, but one could hope  ;D 

Caleb Oak

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Re: Allegiance to the RCC
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2020, 11:57:47 am »
I believe he made apologies if I can remember, but that's been a trend for Popes to condemn such acts, and promise justice, but that's where it ends. When you have at the very least a few thousand known priests out there raping people(might be harsh words, but that's what it is by today's standards), it's hard to convince the public that this happened unknown.

Lol, well that's setting the standard a bit high, but one could hope  ;D
Yes, well, I just feel bad becuase I can not help do anything about it.  :)

Indeed. *Insert Darth Sidious laughter here*

PS: Legends Forever.

EclecticWheel

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Re: Allegiance to the RCC
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2020, 06:54:06 pm »
I believe he made apologies if I can remember, but that's been a trend for Popes to condemn such acts, and promise justice, but that's where it ends.

I have not had good experiences with the clergy in the Roman Catholic Church until the last several months, and I still don't get too close to them.

There is a tradition that has been passed on over the centuries that I care deeply about even though I think many in the hierarchy are terrible custodians thereof.

I came to the conclusion that I will have to deal with evil in the world, including evil coming from political institutions such as the Church, and I had to decide whether I would fight it from within or without the institutional Church.

I seem happier-- and maybe a more moral person, too -- when practicing my spirituality from within the church, whatever my disagreements with the hierarchies' political stances, moral stances, non-essential doctrines, or interpretations of dogmas that are actually essential to the tradition.

I don't actually give money to the Church unless it is to particular organizations or I know it is going directly to maintenance of the physical building the Church worships in.

I do spend quite a lot of time, especially lately, engaged with works of charity and teaching others elements of the tradition as I understand it, when they're interested.

One thing I pass along is the idea, contrary to what I was taught in the Church, is that obedience, including obedience to the hierarchy, is not always virtuous!

In fact it can be nothing more than an abdication of moral and intellectual responsibility!  I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall St John Henry Newman saying something like, "I'll drink to the Pope if you please, but to conscience first!"

Sometimes it is proper to obey an authority like a physician, when you need guidance in an area in which you have no competence.

This is not the same as adhering to every order or teaching handed down without critical evaluation thereof, or determining whether it is essential or not to the tradition as a whole.

How does theology develop (or change in some cases) without critical assessment?

Not that this is necessarily altogether relevant to non-Catholics, but when I see the hierarchy itself undermining ancient liturgical traditions that I am faithful to, ought not I to question the opinions of the hierarchy on other matters too?
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Anon100

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Re: Allegiance to the RCC
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2020, 04:07:06 am »

I do spend quite a lot of time, especially lately, engaged with works of charity and teaching others elements of the tradition as I understand it, when they're interested.

One thing I pass along is the idea, contrary to what I was taught in the Church, is that obedience, including obedience to the hierarchy, is not always virtuous!

....

Sometimes it is proper to obey an authority like a physician, when you need guidance in an area in which you have no competence.

This is not the same as adhering to every order or teaching handed down without critical evaluation thereof, or determining whether it is essential or not to the tradition as a whole.

How does theology develop (or change in some cases) without critical assessment?

Not that this is necessarily altogether relevant to non-Catholics, but when I see the hierarchy itself undermining ancient liturgical traditions that I am faithful to, ought not I to question the opinions of the hierarchy on other matters too?

A bit off topic here.

I agree with what you said there and think it's all worth remembering in any situation where there's heirarchy, even with the younger or rediscovered religions where the heirarchy isn't so entrenched or the traditions not so old. I also think it's very worthy of point outside of religion.

I came across references to some abuses by heirarchy in the pagan area which, thankfully appear to have occured and been dealt with before my time here when looking round, for instance. And in real life we have long lists of abuses by doctors and government.

People are worthy of respect of their position but also to be held accountable for that position and their actions within it.

In Catholism the position of pope is granted by god but, to my mind, the person who stands as pope is still falable. After all they still have free will.

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