collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"  (Read 374 times)

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • Posts: 2600
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 119
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
"I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« on: June 10, 2018, 11:12:27 am »
The jockey on Justify, upon winning horse racing's Triple Crown yesterday:

"First I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ..."

Groan.

Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome? Nothing prompts a disgusted eye roll from me faster than some winner of an athletic competition or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award at a ceremony who utters these tedious syllables.

What I'm trying to figure out is *why* it irritates me so.

--Certainly part of it is my Northeast U.S. upbringing; around these parts, religion is something that's supposed to be personal and private, and few things are as tasteless as flaunting one's religion, whatever it may be.

--Part of it is embarrassment, because so often the Thank You JCers are African American. Even though I know there are all sorts of historical reasons why the Christian church plays such a big role for so many of my people (mercifully not for me), I just cringe for us every time it happens.

--Part of it is revulsion at having the dominant religion shoved down my throat so needlessly. Is your faith really so fragile that you need to assert it as public spectacle in everybody's faces?

--Another big part of my negative reaction is because it strikes me as reflexive, lazy, and simplistic. I mean, what if you'd lost? Have you thanked Jesus for every loss over the years? If not, why not? If you lose, does that mean that Jesus doesn't love you quite so much as you thought?

Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

RandallS

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 9632
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 72
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2018, 12:48:08 pm »
Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome? Nothing prompts a disgusted eye roll from me faster than some winner of an athletic competition or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award at a ceremony who utters these tedious syllables.

It doesn't really bother me. I figure people are entitled to thank their deity if they want. I'd rather they be thanking their deity than trying to convert me. :) The ones who go too far make me roll my eyes, however. The ones who don't just thank Jesus for helping them win/catch the pass/whatever, but say their skill had nothing to do with it, Jesus actually won/whatever. My first encounter with this was a quarterback on my high school team who would tell everyone that he wasn't throwing those great passes, it was actually Jesus controlling his arms. :: head desk ::

Of course, I spent most of my life in Texas where religion is a major topic of discussion. Heck, one of the nicest things about moving to Ohio is that no random stranger I meet in a store has asked me what church I go to. Come to think of it the only invitation to attend church I've got since I've been here wasn't really an invite to come to a church service, but to go with him to his church's festival and so I could buy a pie from a friend of his that makes great pies.

Quote
--Part of it is embarrassment, because so often the Thank You JCers are African American.

In Texas, at least, it's an equal opportunity thing. As far as I could tell, African Americans weren't any more likely to do it than whites. One major factor seemed to be the type of Christian -- most of the people doing it seemed to be  from Non-Denominational and Bible churches -- especially the mega-churches.

Quote
--Another big part of my negative reaction is because it strikes me as reflexive, lazy, and simplistic. I mean, what if you'd lost? Have you thanked Jesus for every loss over the years? If not, why not? If you lose, does that mean that Jesus doesn't love you quite so much as you thought?

I've seen people do it. If they don't win, they still thank Jesus for "a good game" or the like.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host

EnderDragonFire

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 282
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 75
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Sri Vaishnavism
  • Preferred Pronouns: any
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2018, 05:00:13 pm »
The jockey on Justify, upon winning horse racing's Triple Crown yesterday:

"First I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ..."

Groan.

Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome? Nothing prompts a disgusted eye roll from me faster than some winner of an athletic competition or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award at a ceremony who utters these tedious syllables.

What I'm trying to figure out is *why* it irritates me so.

--Certainly part of it is my Northeast U.S. upbringing; around these parts, religion is something that's supposed to be personal and private, and few things are as tasteless as flaunting one's religion, whatever it may be.

--Part of it is embarrassment, because so often the Thank You JCers are African American. Even though I know there are all sorts of historical reasons why the Christian church plays such a big role for so many of my people (mercifully not for me), I just cringe for us every time it happens.

--Part of it is revulsion at having the dominant religion shoved down my throat so needlessly. Is your faith really so fragile that you need to assert it as public spectacle in everybody's faces?

--Another big part of my negative reaction is because it strikes me as reflexive, lazy, and simplistic. I mean, what if you'd lost? Have you thanked Jesus for every loss over the years? If not, why not? If you lose, does that mean that Jesus doesn't love you quite so much as you thought?

Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?

Nope. Not at all. Probably because, unlike you, I've got a Southern US upbringing, and down here, religion is a public and passionate display for most folks. I would certainly think my deities on stage if I won such a competition, probably Saraswati since most of my interests are intellectual and scholastic. I know I thank her every time I complete a research project, grant application, etc.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2373
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 06:19:19 pm »
or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award

"When those people get up at the Grammys and say, 'I thank God', I always imagine God going, 'Oh, don't. Please don't thank me for that one. Please, oh, that's an awful one! Don't thank me for that -- that's a piece of crap!'" -- Bono.
So. Autocorrect thinks I really like ducks.

Redfaery

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1299
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 06:33:25 pm »
Nope. Not at all. Probably because, unlike you, I've got a Southern US upbringing, and down here, religion is a public and passionate display for most folks. I would certainly think my deities on stage if I won such a competition, probably Saraswati since most of my interests are intellectual and scholastic. I know I thank her every time I complete a research project, grant application, etc.
This.

I don't personally mind when people thank God, Jesus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster etc. for their achievements, especially when it seems like their display is sincere and not just for show. I mean, winning the triple crown is a big deal! I'd thank my God too if I were that guy.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

EnderDragonFire

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 282
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 75
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Sri Vaishnavism
  • Preferred Pronouns: any
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 07:23:22 pm »
I mean, winning the triple crown is a big deal! I'd thank my God too if I were that guy.

From Kentucky, can confirm!
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

EclecticWheel

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 409
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 26
    • View Profile
  • Religion: NonRealist Episcopalian + my own rituals, prayers, saints, & angels
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 10:40:17 pm »
The jockey on Justify, upon winning horse racing's Triple Crown yesterday:

"First I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ..."

Groan.

Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome? Nothing prompts a disgusted eye roll from me faster than some winner of an athletic competition or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award at a ceremony who utters these tedious syllables.

What I'm trying to figure out is *why* it irritates me so.

--Certainly part of it is my Northeast U.S. upbringing; around these parts, religion is something that's supposed to be personal and private, and few things are as tasteless as flaunting one's religion, whatever it may be.

--Part of it is embarrassment, because so often the Thank You JCers are African American. Even though I know there are all sorts of historical reasons why the Christian church plays such a big role for so many of my people (mercifully not for me), I just cringe for us every time it happens.

--Part of it is revulsion at having the dominant religion shoved down my throat so needlessly. Is your faith really so fragile that you need to assert it as public spectacle in everybody's faces?

--Another big part of my negative reaction is because it strikes me as reflexive, lazy, and simplistic. I mean, what if you'd lost? Have you thanked Jesus for every loss over the years? If not, why not? If you lose, does that mean that Jesus doesn't love you quite so much as you thought?

Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?

I always scoff a bit at this because I tend to think Jesus wouldn't give a damn about the outcome of the game, but then again many Christians believe that everything that happens is part of God's will in some way.  I suppose if the person is sincere I cannot criticize genuine gratefulness.  It is healthy I think to have a strong sense of gratitude.

I tend to be very private about my religiosity to the point that I usually even hide religious jewelry under my clothes.  I'm happy to discuss my religious ways on forums like this or with other open minded religious people, but otherwise I'm pretty private about it.  But this is a personal preference.  I don't think thanking one's deity publicly or otherwise expressing religiosity is in any way a spectacle being shoved in your face, I just don't.

If someone is trying to proselytize or convert you, especially if you have made it clear you're not interested, I can see how that is having religion shoved in your face, but not just because someone expresses gratitude to their god in public.  It may not be my way of doing things, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, either.

EclecticWheel

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 409
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 26
    • View Profile
  • Religion: NonRealist Episcopalian + my own rituals, prayers, saints, & angels
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 10:50:13 pm »
I always scoff a bit at this because I tend to think Jesus wouldn't give a damn about the outcome of the game, but then again many Christians believe that everything that happens is part of God's will in some way.  I suppose if the person is sincere I cannot criticize genuine gratefulness.  It is healthy I think to have a strong sense of gratitude.

I tend to be very private about my religiosity to the point that I usually even hide religious jewelry under my clothes.  I'm happy to discuss my religious ways on forums like this or with other open minded religious people, but otherwise I'm pretty private about it.  But this is a personal preference.  I don't think thanking one's deity publicly or otherwise expressing religiosity is in any way a spectacle being shoved in your face, I just don't.

If someone is trying to proselytize or convert you, especially if you have made it clear you're not interested, I can see how that is having religion shoved in your face, but not just because someone expresses gratitude to their god in public.  It may not be my way of doing things, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, either.

I guess why I object to the expression that such expressions of gratitude to a deity are shoving religion down someone else's throat is I see the same kind of expressions used about homosexuals.  If I want to hold my partner's hand in public there are plenty of people that say I'm shoving homosexuality down their throats.

But I'm not.  I just happen to be expressing affection for my partner in public because I love him.  I don't see how it's so different just because that person might happen to be a deity.

Morag

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2205
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 38
  • Pray drunk; hex sober.
    • View Profile
    • Everyday Magic
  • Religion: Anglican Pagan; Otherfaith; pathof3; D'Angeline Recon; eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: zie/zir
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2018, 03:24:34 am »
Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?

Nope. Same way it wouldn't grate on me if they thanked their spouse first, or their best friend.

What grates on me is when they have to bring JC into every conversation...much like when you're talking to your friend who has a new boyfriend, Bob, and no matter what you talk about, they have to bring Bob into it.

"We had peas last night..."

"Bob hates peas!"

"Ok, that's great Linda; wasn't talking about Bob. Anyway, the peas were awful, so we ordered pizza instead..."

"Bob loves pizza!"

People have relationships with human-type people, non-human-animal-type people, deity-type people, and so on and so forth. It makes sense that they'd mention the most important relationships during a speech after a big triumph (and, conversely, during a big loss, turn to those relationships for comfort or solace).
My pronouns are zie/zir/zirs but they pronouns are easier to remember for most folks.
--
Everyday Magic | Morag's Spindle

Kylara

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 776
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 36
    • View Profile
    • https://www.patreon.com/kyndryana
  • Religion: Norse Fusion Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 02:35:30 pm »
"When those people get up at the Grammys and say, 'I thank God', I always imagine God going, 'Oh, don't. Please don't thank me for that one. Please, oh, that's an awful one! Don't thank me for that -- that's a piece of crap!'" -- Bono.

I don't tend to mind....but part of my brain very much wonders if it ever occurs to anyone else that by thanking God for your victory, you are sort of implying that God likes you better than the people you beat (Did you pray harder?  Were you a better follower of your religion?)
Check out my Patreon for more writing and other goodies!

EnderDragonFire

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 282
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 75
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Sri Vaishnavism
  • Preferred Pronouns: any
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 02:55:26 pm »
I don't tend to mind....but part of my brain very much wonders if it ever occurs to anyone else that by thanking God for your victory, you are sort of implying that God likes you better than the people you beat (Did you pray harder?  Were you a better follower of your religion?)

I don't think it implies that. I mean, if you win *all the time* that might be the case, but most people win some and lose some. If you think that God is the reason you win when you win, you probably also think God is the reason that other people win when they do so as well. It's less about being favorite and more about getting a one time favor.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Goddess_Ashtara

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Location: E-EDINLIL
  • Posts: 90
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 9
  • DINGIR NIN EDINLIL AK IMEN
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Nexion 3127
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 03:23:22 pm »
I don't tend to mind....but part of my brain very much wonders if it ever occurs to anyone else that by thanking God for your victory, you are sort of implying that God likes you better than the people you beat (Did you pray harder?  Were you a better follower of your religion?)

From what I have seen and experienced, the thanking of God(s) after athletic events and other significant achievements and victories is often about reaching out and thanking God(s) for their role in the  strength, power, wisdom, inspiration and motivation it took to get to where we are now and succeed in our ambitions.


Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome?

Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?

I have no issue with individuals praising their God(s) in victory or in failure, or whenever... in fact I think it is f***ing awesome.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:25:39 pm by Goddess_Ashtara »
𒊩𒆪  𒂔𒇸𒀝  𒄿𒈨
NIN EDINLIL AK IMEN
𒊩𒆪  𒂔𒇸𒀝  𒄿𒈨

ehbowen

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • Posts: 732
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 66
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 12:58:24 am »
The jockey on Justify, upon winning horse racing's Triple Crown yesterday:

"First I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ..."

Groan.

Am I the only one who finds this particularly irksome? Nothing prompts a disgusted eye roll from me faster than some winner of an athletic competition or some artist (usually musician) accepting an award at a ceremony who utters these tedious syllables.

...

Does this grate on anyone else the way it grates on me?

Actually, I do find a bit of a cringe factor there. Also in those people who effusively thank their mother, etc. Miss Manners (Judith Martin) put it into words:

Quote
Here are some guidelines for those who find that their chores include accepting an Academy Award:
  • Look pleased and grateful, but not hysterically so. The person who bursts into tears and sobs that this is the greatest moment of his or her entire life is overdoing it.
  • Thank two or three key individuals and perhaps a supportive group, but not your parents, grade school teachers, and everyone else who has ever touched your life. This suggests that you are crediting those people with having created something magnificent [you].
  • Understand that you are being honored for one ability and not for being a general national treasure, and therefore keep any utterings of wisdom to your profession, instead of sharing your politics or philosophy of life.
If you can't manage all this, you might want to consider losing, instead. [Judith Martin, Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior, Galahad Books Edition, pg. 615]

With the foregoing noted, I should also say that it is a common aspiration among Christians, myself included, to have a chance to stand up and proclaim what we believe in public on The Big Stage (and not just Christians...political and other philosophical discourse runs rampant at award ceremonies; you just tend not to object to that which you agree with). I would note that a more genuine opportunity to stand up for your beliefs occurs in your daily life, especially in situations where you find yourself unpopular or marginalized. Still, when and if you do find yourself standing on The Big Stage, it's natural and understandable (if, according to Miss Manners, a bit rude!) to want to voice that which you've been wanting for years to vocalize. As our resident Goddess noted above, it's awesome.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

keen

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 29
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 10
    • View Profile
  • Religion: fringe devotional polytheism, animism, spirit-working
Re: "I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior, JC"
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 09:42:39 pm »
I don't tend to mind....but part of my brain very much wonders if it ever occurs to anyone else that by thanking God for your victory, you are sort of implying that God likes you better than the people you beat (Did you pray harder?  Were you a better follower of your religion?)

Sometimes, that is the case. At least with us polytheists and our fallible gods - which is why I always chuckle a little when I hear Christians do it.

But also, as far as polytheism goes, it is quite the concrete reality that our gods answer prayers from devotees that we like as well as the ones we don't. (Heathen Chinese wrote about this a while ago in Are The Gods On Our Side?)

As far as the broader conversation goes, I personally think Yahweh has enough people vouching for him in the world as it is - the bible-belt types who usually spout this stuff usually just amount to meaningless noise of the quintessentially 'Murican variety to me. Yawn. I don't care. Then again, I probably don't give a damn about whatever sports win or move award they're thanking him for either.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:44:30 pm by keen »

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
671 Views
Last post August 30, 2011, 11:26:44 am
by Talvikki Wyntersong
6 Replies
1501 Views
Last post November 25, 2011, 11:27:32 am
by Rowanfox
29 Replies
2158 Views
Last post February 27, 2012, 09:58:44 am
by perdurabofan
4 Replies
952 Views
Last post March 14, 2013, 02:00:09 am
by Morag
3 Replies
398 Views
Last post August 31, 2012, 05:52:57 pm
by RandallS

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 36
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru, Tana

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling, Bob, Catja, Fausta, Sperran, Steve

Cauldron Council:
Emma-Eldritch, Everfool, Jubes, Kelly, Koi, Melamphoros, Ocelot, Phouka, Sashapablo, Star

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall