ADFers and other Druid folk - Household pets = Nature Spirits? Why / why not?

[Asch]

This has been asked on the Dedicant's e-list at least twice in the last year or so with varying opinions and no strict consensus excepting that most tend to not classify their pets as nature spirits because they're domesticated.

Thoughts?

[bluewave193]

This has been asked on the Dedicant's e-list at least twice in the last year or so with varying opinions and no strict consensus excepting that most tend to not classify their pets as nature spirits because they're domesticated.

Thoughts?

Do you mean the animals themselves are spirits or that they have spirits? I would say depends on the animal. Not all humans choose to participate with spirits, I would say that animals are the same.

Hope this makes sense,

-Blue

[Asch]

Do you mean the animals themselves are spirits or that they have spirits? I would say depends on the animal. Not all humans choose to participate with spirits, I would say that animals are the same.

Hope this makes sense,

-Blue

 
I should be clearer, in ADF there are three Kindreds, deities, nature spirits, and ancestors. I believe that my pets have souls etc. but there's an off and on debate as to whether our pets can be considered to be nature spirits. I'm not sure it's a question we can answer really but the debate is interesting.

[cigfran]

I should be clearer, in ADF there are three Kindreds, deities, nature spirits, and ancestors. I believe that my pets have souls etc. but there's an off and on debate as to whether our pets can be considered to be nature spirits. I'm not sure it's a question we can answer really but the debate is interesting.

I think it depends entirely on the actual spirit of the animal. Some fuzzbutts are quite happily just that.

But my eldest chinchilla is definitely a minor tiki.

[Sophia C]

This has been asked on the Dedicant's e-list at least twice in the last year or so with varying opinions and no strict consensus excepting that most tend to not classify their pets as nature spirits because they're domesticated.

Thoughts?

My cats seem fairly domesticated indoors, but I only have to watch them stalking pigeons and mice to remember that they're not really.

But the distinction between domesticated and not bothers me, a bit. When did we cease to be part of nature? I'm not sure we did. I think we just perceive ourselves as separate (which has had environmental implications).

[Asch]

My cats seem fairly domesticated indoors, but I only have to watch them stalking pigeons and mice to remember that they're not really.

But the distinction between domesticated and not bothers me, a bit. When did we cease to be part of nature? I'm not sure we did. I think we just perceive ourselves as separate (which has had environmental implications).

 
Yeah this is my issue too, I think, for me, the distinction lays in the terminology of the rite. If it specifies wild nature spirits then I would think that for the purposes of that rite they would not qualify but ... yeah the distinction is odd and fairly arbitrary.

[River at Night]

Yeah this is my issue too, I think, for me, the distinction lays in the terminology of the rite. If it specifies wild nature spirits then I would think that for the purposes of that rite they would not qualify but ... yeah the distinction is odd and fairly arbitrary.

 
To be honest, I think it depends on the pet, too. Some animals are closer to wild (or feral) than others, and some have "wilder" personalities than others.

I'm not really sure I can explain this well, but I'll offer an example. Most pet cats, in the absence of their human owner, adapt relatively quickly and learn to fend for themselves; especially outdoor and indoor-outdoor cats. There are exceptions, of course. On the other hand, a lot of pet birds do not adapt well, at least when they're far from the habitat they were meant for. Again, with exceptions.

I think a lot of it is open to personal interpretation, of course, and maybe even context. If I was an an outdoor ritual and it ended up surrounded by dozens of feral cats, I'd probably consider them nature spirits in that context!

[Asch]

To be honest, I think it depends on the pet, too. Some animals are closer to wild (or feral) than others, and some have "wilder" personalities than others.

I'm not really sure I can explain this well, but I'll offer an example. Most pet cats, in the absence of their human owner, adapt relatively quickly and learn to fend for themselves; especially outdoor and indoor-outdoor cats. There are exceptions, of course. On the other hand, a lot of pet birds do not adapt well, at least when they're far from the habitat they were meant for. Again, with exceptions.

I think a lot of it is open to personal interpretation, of course, and maybe even context. If I was an an outdoor ritual and it ended up surrounded by dozens of feral cats, I'd probably consider them nature spirits in that context!

 
During our rite today the local friendly dog helped himself to our Waters of Life. It was hilarious.

[ShannonM]

This has been asked on the Dedicant's e-list at least twice in the last year or so with varying opinions and no strict consensus excepting that most tend to not classify their pets as nature spirits because they're domesticated.

Thoughts?

 
I would say that it depends on the critter in question...

Of our three cats, only one, Rose, our female torbie, qualifies in my book... because she's a stone-cold killer, from the pads on her feet to the tip of her tail. I've watched her catch hummingbirds out of the air. She's simply, utterly, unabashedly lethal.

The other two (American Ragdolls) are cute-n-fluffy couch ornaments. Clearly not nature spirits. Rose hates them both.

The snake is a nature spirit. Anyone who has kept reptiles knows that "domesticated" isn't a word that applies... they are what they are.

--Shannon

[quarks]

Not all humans choose to participate with spirits, I would say that animals are the same.

 
I somewhat agree with this if I am understanding it correctly.  I would say that pets are nature spirits.  It is just that some choose to be more active in that capacity than others.  Just like I think that some of my ancestors might choose to be more active in participating in different things than others, if that makes sense.

[Keri]

This has been asked on the Dedicant's e-list at least twice in the last year or so with varying opinions and no strict consensus excepting that most tend to not classify their pets as nature spirits because they're domesticated.

Thoughts?

 
I'd say not. Because they are domesticated and live more in tune with the household than the wild. I see nature spirits as untamed and wild. That would not apply to any of my fat and sassy companion animals who want a bowl of food set in front of them and a warm bed to sleep in at night.