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Author Topic: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices  (Read 1520 times)

Aisling

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2012, 09:19:01 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;65037
I'd actually suggest it might be the other way around - that people who are what's sometimes called 'open headed' (i.e. more responsive to this kind of outside stimulus from deities/spirits/other entities) may be somewhat more prone to depression, anxiety, or other issues that are at least partly driven by response to external stimulus.

(I've seen it go both ways with people I worked with, but more generally the "this person has been seriously open-headed since childhood, and now has other stuff going on" is a bit more common.)

 
I'm inclined to agree with Jenett on this point.

For me, depression and anxiety actually tend to shut down those 'open-headed' abilities.  During episodes of major depression, everything goes silent for me.  Thankfully, these are very infrequently (although once is more than in any lifetime).
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Maps

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2012, 12:50:45 pm »
Quote from: LiminalAuggie;65004
You know, I'm starting to wonder if there's something about those of us with depression and/or anxiety issues that make us more inclined or receptive to this sort of Mystery work, because this is spookily close to my experience as well.

Once thing I was able to manage with my therapist through cognitive-behavioral stuff was learning to discern which messages are coming from the toxic part of my mind and which aren't. It's gotten much easier to deal with that voice (though it still won't shut up sometimes) when I can recognize that what it's telling me is not the whole truth.

Using those same skills I've gotten better at being able to tell when words of phrases that get stuck in my head or come up in meditation are coming from something that's me or not me. It's not a perfect system though, and I really ought to learn a divination system that isn't Tarot so I can cross-check.

I'm also pretty dedicated to being solitary and...maybe never going to meet any other pagans IRL ever because hey, social anxiety, and when I think about doing anything in a sort of group setting it really weirds me out. I feel like it's okay if I'm searching for things I don't have names for on my own, even if it's all just in my head and I'm deluding myself (thanks rational brain) because it's not affecting anyone else. But exploring that with more people than just me? Terrifying.

A more specific reason I'm reluctant to do group things is that I'm just trying to identify LG at this point, and I'm pretty sure He's not one of the usual suspects I've already investigated, but if I look to other folks for assistance or confirmation there's a good likelihood that whoever else works with less obscure deities and be like "oh no, He's totally Hermes" when I'm pretty sure He's not and I still have a lot of doubt about mysticism in general and argh.

Unhelpful mental loops, ahoy.

 
This makes a lot of sense to me. I was talking to a friend of mine about anxiety (we're both cartoonists and writers), and it was a real aha! moment when he noted that anxiety has no concept of past or future, and in those moments of despair and panic, nothing exists but the threatening now.

I tied that into what may be a basis for my interest in trance work, because that is also firmly rooted in the present, but in a completely different, and IMO, healthy way.

Maps

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2012, 12:57:07 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;65260
After reading the dream comments it seems like you all do get what I mean by "not so normal." Just something that stands out to you from your normal.

But this part of what Juniperberry said has been VERY important. I got the advice ages ago from, I have no idea where honestly, Ha!, but it is echoed in much dream research. Recognizing patterns allows the dreamer to have more control not only over the dream state (to induce lucid dreaming etc.) but in dream recall. To recognize patterns you need to remember them. Dream journaling helps with that.


So far the only dreams I've ever been lucid in were ones that scared me back into being conscious enough to save myself from some horrible dream fate. I think my "markers" are violence, fear, and murderer. That is really not something I want to understand more, unfortunately.

As for right-brain, left-brain stuff, I'm very intensely both and it sucks because I seem to be self-contradicting or quibbling inside of myself constantly, and finding that equilibrium is very difficult. (Making comics has very much helped, though.)

Nyktipolos

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2012, 01:04:10 pm »
Quote from: Maps;65654
So far the only dreams I've ever been lucid in were ones that scared me back into being conscious enough to save myself from some horrible dream fate. I think my "markers" are violence, fear, and murderer. That is really not something I want to understand more, unfortunately.

 
This is what happens to me as well, although I've had several dreams where I DON'T wake up, and endure my 'death' in the dream. Sometimes I even see what happens afterwards.

(Although how they buried me that one time I died then exploded into bright lights confused me.)

Weird enough, I pulled myself out of sleep three times last night due to nightmares.
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SkySamuelle

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2012, 01:22:31 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;65022
I have a theory, shared with some others here, that Deity has a less-complicated time dealing with human brains when they're partially...cracked open already?

I owe a blog post on the subject, I think.

 
And... consider what happens to shamans during their 'shaman' sickness' - they are first isolated by the spirits/gods for a variable stretch of time, and then they are litterally broke open so they can be rewired to ease their capacities of comunication/energy channeling before the initiation can take place.
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DancesWithHorses

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2012, 01:34:37 pm »
Quote from: Maps;65652
This makes a lot of sense to me. I was talking to a friend of mine about anxiety (we're both cartoonists and writers), and it was a real aha! moment when he noted that anxiety has no concept of past or future, and in those moments of despair and panic, nothing exists but the threatening now.

I tied that into what may be a basis for my interest in trance work, because that is also firmly rooted in the present, but in a completely different, and IMO, healthy way.

 
I actually haven't heard that view before but it makes sense. The rational part of me knows that whatever the anxiety is about is a tiny part of my life compared to the past or the future but it has a tremendous amount of power associated with it.  Not sure if anyone else has had this happen to them but in some of the more severe anxiety attacks I've had, the memory is "gone." Like I know my best friend and I went to the city, I have texts and her as a witness but I remember nothing at all. That's almost an entire day gone.

I do think that the open-minded could be more susceptible to anxiety and depression. Consider an empath that hasn't learned to block or shield, would it be any wonder that they develop social anxiety? (Just going on my own experience there).

Quote from: Maps;65654

As for right-brain, left-brain stuff, I'm very intensely both and it sucks because I seem to be self-contradicting or quibbling inside of myself constantly, and finding that equilibrium is very difficult. (Making comics has very much helped, though.)


Stab in the dark, but are you able to talk yourself in and out of anything? I fall in both as well and I think I spend most of my time arguing with myself.

I've given this subject some more thought. I think part of the trust that we have to learn for our inner voices can locked behind a door and once you are able to open that door, the trust is stronger than ever. I hope that made sense. I was thinking about this Saturday night, staring at the ceiling (couldn't sleep). I've been in situations where full trust was necessary and despite everything pointing towards that being a good thing, the trust wasn't there. What bothered me each time was that my inner voices weren't saying anything that should have effected the trust. So I'm thinking there has to be something that makes us discount our inner voices or reason against them. Could just be social conditioning but whatever it is, it cost me a good night's sleep! (if that didn't make sense, let me know and I can try to do more detail)
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2012, 03:17:24 pm »
Quote from: Maps;65654
So far the only dreams I've ever been lucid in were ones that scared me back into being conscious enough to save myself from some horrible dream fate. I think my "markers" are violence, fear, and murderer. That is really not something I want to understand more, unfortunately.


Got you there. Not all my lucid are those types of things, but yeah. Can be disturbing and stick too long. I don't blame you.

Quote from: Maps;65654
As for right-brain, left-brain stuff, I'm very intensely both and it sucks because I seem to be self-contradicting or quibbling inside of myself constantly, and finding that equilibrium is very difficult. (Making comics has very much helped, though.)


Yes! I am way too excited that someone shares that experience. :D: Like isometric thought. One side pushing against the other.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2012, 03:21:39 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;65656
This is what happens to me as well, although I've had several dreams where I DON'T wake up, and endure my 'death' in the dream. Sometimes I even see what happens afterwards.

(Although how they buried me that one time I died then exploded into bright lights confused me.)


This fascinates me. Wow. Anytime a dream me is on the verge, I wake up.

Quote from: Nyktipolos;65656
Weird enough, I pulled myself out of sleep three times last night due to nightmares.


I am going to go ahead and give the (((hugs))) even if it might be awkward.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2012, 03:23:11 pm »
Quote from: SkySamuelle;65658
And... consider what happens to shamans during their 'shaman' sickness' - they are first isolated by the spirits/gods for a variable stretch of time, and then they are litterally broke open so they can be rewired to ease their capacities of comunication/energy channeling before the initiation can take place.


That's pretty much right in line with most of the descriptions I've read of the ayahuasca experience.

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2012, 08:48:31 pm »
Quote from: Maps;65654
As for right-brain, left-brain stuff, I'm very intensely both and it sucks because I seem to be self-contradicting or quibbling inside of myself constantly, and finding that equilibrium is very difficult.

 
Oh hells yeah.  It's been years, for me, since I've had any real conflicts like that, but I remember it well.  (Caveat: lots of metaphor ahead, because I can't describe it for shit, even just to myself, without metaphor.)

My labels were "Logic" and Intuition", and they were like twins with serious sibling rivalry.  If one "said" something, that was enough for the other to argue against it - even, at times, just for the sake of opposition, contrary to what it might have said if it had "spoken" first.  This was both exasperating as all hell, and unconstructive - how'm I supposed to suss anything out, if neither of those is entirely reliable?

By and by, I got exasperated enough that - in the midst of trying to journal about something so as to sort it out - I threw a fit at the pair of them, in writing, pretty much giving them an ultimatum to learn to work together or STFU.  They STFU - for months, I was functioning somewhat below par; I could do logic-the-function and intuition-the-function, but the distinct, anthropomorphosizable brain/self-parts didn't come into it).

After a while, they came back... and tag-teamed me.  Disconcerting and took some getting used to, but it was what I'd asked for all right.  At the time I threw the fit, my only fully-conscious intention was letting off steam, but in retrospect, it was clear to me that I'd spontaneously cast a kick-ass spell.

Ever since, they've been each other's "reality check" (and are much less distinct and anthropomorphosizable - better intergration into the whole of me-ness was a side effect) - the sense of being tag-teamed went away, as I got used to it and things integrated, but the interlocking functionality remained.

I don't think I could directly teach anyone to do it, since it was spontaneous and not conscious/pre-intentional, but I can tell the story, and if people find anything useful in it, that's great.

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Sharysa

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2012, 10:58:48 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;64792
Which means there's a more fundamental thing to be doing: learning how to hear and trust the inner voice, which comes before the learning to verify the inner voice.

So: thoughts on that doozy?

Interesting note: I've been reading meditation and psychic-exercise things for a while, and a scary amount of that overlaps with the exercises my theater professor's been teaching me.

He describes acting in terms of "sending/receiving energy." You send your energy out to your scene partner(s), and then you open yourself up to receive it from them. Even if you're alone, you have to react as if they're physically there with you--which is why my director stresses that you have to learn your scenes, not just your own lines and/or cues.

There's also the audience's energy, which you need to deal with while simultaneously working with your scene partner(s).

This overlaps heavily with psychic training, empath experiences, and spirit-work (albeit in different terms). The one major difference is that theater training doesn't involve the precautionary shielding that actual spirit-work does, but even so, my prof says it all boils down to "If you're okay with this person, let them stay. If you're not okay, you make them leave--and there are lots of ways to make people leave."

It took me months to realize that I intuitively "translated" my theater training to my spirituality without even realizing it--and luckily, I'm now working on shielding and verifying my experiences with Tarot. My Tarot cards don't lie, although I need to be careful that I don't misinterpret them.

And with all the theater work I'm doing, it seems I have the ability to distinguish between human and non-human spirits--plants, animals, the sea, Fair Folk, and gods all feel different from each other and humans. Flower-spirits are "small" and match up with the physical blossoms; the sea is huge and communicates in concepts rather than words; the Fair Folk seem like humans but are completely alien in mindset; gods' presences are like humans but "bigger," and they have a bit of the Fair Folk in how they deal with time and space.

Sine I work with humans most of the time and know what their presences are like, any other spirit is going to feel different by default.

Apparently, most people need a few years of experience before they can get the level of detail that I can off of a few "meetings." And guess what? I've been training professionally for about three years. I don't think it's an accident that my prof views acting as a spiritual exercise and got that mentality from training in Japanese methods; Japanese spirituality seems to permeate everything they do.

One last side-effect is that working with the circumstances of all the plays I've done means I'm a lot more okay with trusting my inner voices. Although with a history of depression and self-esteem issues (and the lack of formal training), I'm still quite prone to "Oh gods, what if I'm crazy and none of this is real?" thoughts.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 11:04:48 pm by Sharysa »
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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2012, 12:29:37 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;64792
Which means there's a more fundamental thing to be doing: learning how to hear and trust the inner voice, which comes before the learning to verify the inner voice.

So: thoughts on that doozy?

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« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 12:38:08 am by MadZealot »
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Aine Rayne

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2012, 02:53:15 am »
Quote from: LiminalAuggie;65194
Seconding this. Typical dreams for me involve either long sprawling adventures or your typical trauma dream stuff, usually teeth-related, eurgh. Those are usually harder to recall, as well. The atypical dreams where I look back at them and think "okay this could possibly mean something" tend to include a really intense element of physical sensation, like very clear sounds or smells, as if someone turned the brightness and contrast way up and added all sorts of sensory elements. These never feel as "floaty" for me as "normal" dreams.

 
Same here! I don't seem to have short dreams and they're either outrageous and silly, serious with a purpose, sprawling adventure, or a combination thereof. Most of the time I don't have intense physical sensations in any of my senses. Usually if there's an intense sensation that means something special is going on. I recall one dream, so intensely vivid, where I was being swallowed and cleansed by the sun. I also remember very distinctly seeing my spirit guide as I momentarily came to reality (still with the dream's sensation!) and went back to the dream. I had one last night too, though this time it was the moon and I kinda brought that one on myself lol
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Aine Rayne

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2012, 02:56:12 am »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;65656
This is what happens to me as well, although I've had several dreams where I DON'T wake up, and endure my 'death' in the dream. Sometimes I even see what happens afterwards.

(Although how they buried me that one time I died then exploded into bright lights confused me.)

Weird enough, I pulled myself out of sleep three times last night due to nightmares.

I've only had a couple dreams like that, I could count them on my fingers, probably one hand. Though it wasn't always my death that I was witnessing and often the "ghosts" popped up to continue helping with the "storyline" of said dream. The few times it's been my death, well it took a lot of strength to pull myself awake with panic biting at my heels and tears streaming down my face. I'm not inclined to ever want that again and I send you Ethereal Hugs! I hate nightmares.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 03:02:55 am by Aine Rayne »
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Aine Rayne

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Re: Learning to Trust the Inner Voices
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2012, 03:02:11 am »
Quote from: Maps;65652
This makes a lot of sense to me. I was talking to a friend of mine about anxiety (we're both cartoonists and writers), and it was a real aha! moment when he noted that anxiety has no concept of past or future, and in those moments of despair and panic, nothing exists but the threatening now.

I tied that into what may be a basis for my interest in trance work, because that is also firmly rooted in the present, but in a completely different, and IMO, healthy way.

I'm also a dual brainer, though one can easily take charge in specific situations. I think in general my right brain likes marching around because I'm terribly emotional, suck at organizing my own shit (I'm wonderful at other people's lol) and have no concept of deadlines. I'm also a sufferer of anxiety and depression (which honestly could be closer to bipolar, all three run in the family) and it does get in the way of my brain interacting with the spirit world. As a child my twin sister and I were always on about ghosts and animals and whatnot and so have/do others in my family. Actually, how the depression affects my open-headedness varies. Sometimes I'm more likely to see glimpses of my guide and the house ghosts when I'm suffering and sometimes I'm not, I guess it's intensity and whether they feel needed and should manifest. I could be talking out my rear, my memory gets really blurry around depressive episodes, especially if no one is asking specific questions.

Btw, I was wondering about this, I just thought about it. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had the experience of sensing their depression or whatever as a more or less literal monster presence in their space, be it their mind or aura or what have you. I once did two or three weeks ago, was having a perfectly fine morning and suddenly had this very vivid feeling of a creature in my head that was angry and pacing and hungry for my brain and happiness. It carried the aura of what my depressive episodes usually feel like. Later that week I had a monster breakdown (and last week too), though I was reasonably alright after that. I've never felt such a thing before.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 03:10:46 am by Aine Rayne »
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