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Author Topic: Lady of the Stars, Take Two  (Read 2880 times)

Azra

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 01:57:43 pm »
Quote from: Azra;92138
:D:  I feel this way every time this subject comes up.  I feel I never do it justice.  I just hope I can give my answer without sounding simplistic or just flat out stupid.  I don't want to repeat myself too much either.


I've only been a member of this forum for a few weeks but within a day or so of signing up, I found out there were others who had experiences with Her around the same time I did.  

I've never asked and I don't know if it's kosher, so to speak, to do so but...may I ask just what was experienced?  I understand such experiences are extremely profound and sacred and folk may not want - or be able - to talk about them.  

Thank you very, very much if you do share.  Of course, I will try to reciprocate - words being oh so very...lacking...as they are in these things.
To be sure, I am a forest, and a night of dark trees: but he who is not afraid of my darkness, will find banks full of roses under my cypresses.  
 Friedrich Nietzsche

Juni

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2013, 05:33:28 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91707
Juni, I really want for those things not to happen. (I do feel guilty as one of the louder members, at least in my mind, and the last thing I want to do is steamroll someone.) I'm on the phone right now and it'll take a good while to type out a proper response, so in the meantime would you mind specifically talking about what has concerned you about a main group eclipsing other voices, especially this time around?

 
I'd like to encourage others who had the same issue to chime in if they're comfortable- not that I want to dog-pile, but because my perspective is (of course) not universal, and I think with multiple people speaking up we can make sure the whole picture is shown.

I apologize in advance for any flailing to follow- this is proving rather difficult to write. I consider a number of the original LotS to be good friends, and I don't want to hurt people, but this needs to be said.

If I recall correctly, the LotS phenomenon began in the Cill, in a thread about Brighid of the Forge. In the very beginning of the discussion, there was almost no division between Brighid and the LotS- they were basically the same, in the way that Brighid of the Forge is the same and is different from Brighid the Poet. So it's completely understandable that a lot of the people sharing in the LotS stuff were coming at it through a Brighid-lens.

And then the discussion turned from Brighid of the Forge being the LotS to Brighid of the Forge being a part of the LotS; the Mystery started to piece together, and we could see that the LotS was much more vast than just Brighid. Other people started to chime in: they could see the Lady too. Lightbulbs were tossed.

But as soon as anyone mentioned a piece of the LotS that didn't have Brighid in it- that might have absolutely nothing to do with Brighid at all- the mood changed. Significantly, from where I was sitting. If the goddess in question wasn't Brighid, couldn't be Brighid under a different name, or have some sort of connection to Brighid that the Brighid-kids agreed with, then she wasn't part of LotS. The LotS went from being something vaster and greater than Brighid to being SuperSizedCosmicBrighid. Anyone who didn't see Brighid, or wasn't interested in working with the part that was Brighid, basically got talked over.

It was frustrating, it was hurtful, and it left me, for one, feeling unwelcome and shunned. I didn't feel comfortable expressing my thoughts- even when I couched them in terms of being a different expansive deity with strong similarities/ties to the LotS. I should have said something then, but I felt like I was stepping on toes, tracking mud all over the nice little CosmicBrighid party. So I didn't.

And then the Brighid-is-the-LotS kids packed up their game and went to play at home. I sympathize with the move, I really do- it's hard to talk about this stuff in public for people. It's a vulnerable spot. But there was an exclusionary, cliquish-feel to it that really just sucked.

I'm glad that you all are talking about this again; I'm glad that you're trying to be more open and inclusive. But I'm not comfortable taking part, really, as much as I want to be, and I don't really see any way to fix it.
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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2013, 05:38:07 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658

- Really, truly and honestly, what are your worries or concerns about this new bout of UPG and our discussing it? Particularly interested in what folks involved with the 2010 LotS phenomenon have to say.

And of course, anything else folks want to share. (I don't think I'm the best at starting a thread like this, but I wanted to make sure one was started. So here we go!)

 
So, I'm going to share why I won't be participating in LotS, take two, though I participated in the first one.

This post is all my own experience with the first LotS epiphany -- both as what happened to me, and as an observer of what happened to others. It will also probably be angry, because I am angry.

I am angry about the exclusion that happened the first time around. LotS started with Brighid, yet when some people wanted to move on and look at other deities, they were not listened to. Camps arose in the sig: the camp of "It's Brighid and ONLY Brighid," the camp of "Actually it's not Brighid at all for us", and the camp of "We see both sides, why can't you get along?"

I was in camp three. For me, LotS was Brighid, but I also saw how she could be Nut, or others even -- recently I've come to believe Aphrodite is another expression of her.

And I've continued to do my own building since the first group fell apart. Continued my own work with the LotS and the other Big Beings who appeared beside her.

But I cannot, and will not join this second group, because the trust got broken. The first sig was not a safe space. It excluded people who did not fit the SIG leader's orthodoctrinal view of what the Mystery should be, and in the SIG itself people who saw the LotS as something other than Brighid were not listened to. Posts were ignored. Every time someone said "Hey I think it may be Nut too," various members of the Brighid camp would FREAK OUT, and the rest of us would feel bad because we were apparently triggering panic attacks by having a different opinion.

How on earth can there be trust in this group again? When those of us with dissenting viewpoints got shut down and silenced because we were hurting feelings?

Sorry to be blunt, but grow up. Part of being an adult is having dissenting viewpoints, and sometimes someone's dissent will hurt your feelings. I walked on eggshells before; I'm not doing that any more.

Safe space was compromised because dissent was silenced. Safe space was compromised by the SIG leader's orthodoctrinal tendencies. Safe space wasn't even allowed to certain members because they were not fully Brighid-LotS at the outset.

In the end, I did not feel safe. I did not feel listened to. I did not feel that others were being listened to. LotS became a safe space for one group: the Brighid kids. And though I am a Brighid kid, I was not in that group.

So no, I will not be participating. I'm glad that y'all are taking a more open view this time around and opening up the LotS to other deities beside Brighid. Truly, I am happy for whomever that helps. But it will no longer help me, because all I feel when I think about the LotS group is anger and betrayal.
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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2013, 05:47:12 pm »
Quote from: Morag;93534
recently I've come to believe Aphrodite is another expression of her.

 
I have had a teeny tiny feeling of this too. Like a smoky thread I can feel whispering but can't grasp. But I would have never brought it up for two reasons:

1. I believed the general consensus would be, "OMG NO!", or
2. If Aphrodite was accepted, she would be blended into some kind of mini-Brigid.

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2013, 06:18:02 pm »
Quote from: Fausta;91714
"Above, the gemmed azure is
The naked splendour of Nuit"
(Liber AL, 1:14)

"O azure-lidded woman, bend upon them!"
(AL, 1:19)


Not that I am someone who gives cultus to the LotS; or has her as any part of my cultus privatum but this thread has rather piqued my interest. For what it is worth; when the words 'Lady of the Stars' first presented themselves to me, the thought of 'Well, she looks like Nuit' popped into my head. The quotes from the Thelemic tome quoted above pretty much sums it up for me.

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2013, 07:22:21 pm »
Quote from: Juni;93532
If I recall correctly, the LotS phenomenon began in the Cill, in a thread about Brighid of the Forge. In the very beginning of the discussion, there was almost no division between Brighid and the LotS- they were basically the same, in the way that Brighid of the Forge is the same and is different from Brighid the Poet. So it's completely understandable that a lot of the people sharing in the LotS stuff were coming at it through a Brighid-lens.

And then the discussion turned from Brighid of the Forge being the LotS to Brighid of the Forge being a part of the LotS; the Mystery started to piece together, and we could see that the LotS was much more vast than just Brighid. Other people started to chime in: they could see the Lady too. Lightbulbs were tossed.

But as soon as anyone mentioned a piece of the LotS that didn't have Brighid in it- that might have absolutely nothing to do with Brighid at all- the mood changed. Significantly, from where I was sitting. If the goddess in question wasn't Brighid, couldn't be Brighid under a different name, or have some sort of connection to Brighid that the Brighid-kids agreed with, then she wasn't part of LotS. The LotS went from being something vaster and greater than Brighid to being SuperSizedCosmicBrighid. Anyone who didn't see Brighid, or wasn't interested in working with the part that was Brighid, basically got talked over.

It was frustrating, it was hurtful, and it left me, for one, feeling unwelcome and shunned. I didn't feel comfortable expressing my thoughts- even when I couched them in terms of being a different expansive deity with strong similarities/ties to the LotS. I should have said something then, but I felt like I was stepping on toes, tracking mud all over the nice little CosmicBrighid party. So I didn't.

And then the Brighid-is-the-LotS kids packed up their game and went to play at home. I sympathize with the move, I really do- it's hard to talk about this stuff in public for people. It's a vulnerable spot. But there was an exclusionary, cliquish-feel to it that really just sucked.

 
Thanks for sharing this, Juni. (Sorry to quote so much of it, but I couldn't find any good way to only quote bits of it and still get the whole gist of what you said.)

It's really helpful for me to see how different the perspectives of different people can be. I've been lurking on these threads recently, but have avoided sharing anything for some of the very same reasons you mention.... except I remember the events very differently.

I was one of those people for whom the Lady of the Stars was Brighid. I don't remember requiring everyone else to agree on that, but I was pretty grounded in my own feelings on my relationship with her and so I probably talked about her as Brighid with a certain amount of confidence and specificity when talking about my own experiences and lightbulb moments.

What I remember is feeling shot down for not being "open enough" to other goddesses -- as if, just because others felt a connection between the LotS and, say, Nut, that therefore I had to as well or else I was somehow being judgemental.  I think we even had an extended conversation on the forum at the time about how phrases like "just Brighid" felt hurtful to people who didn't see Brighid as "just" an aspect of some other goddess, but that didn't mean we thought others' experiences of the LotS was in any way invalid. (I totally forget my password for the old forum, so I can't login and find the link -- maybe someone else can?)

I don't remember personally ignoring any posts, since what everyone was saying was very interesting and inspiring for me, even the people who were talking about other traditions I wasn't personally familiar with... But since I started lurking here on TC instead of directly participating for a bit, I've noticed that sometimes (especially in threads that are generating lots of responses really quickly) people who don't respond to every single post sometimes get accused of "ignoring" the posts they don't respond to. I'm not sure that that's really fair, though I totally understand why people might feel that way.

I also remember how hurt I was when the LotS-is-NOT-Brighid people packed up their stuff and went off to create their own, totally separate SIG. ("Through the Doors of the Sky," which described itself as specifically focused on Nut and other Kemetic star deities.) It felt like a big "Brighid Folks Not Welcome" sign hung on the front door. The Lady of the Stars SIG stayed open to Brighid and non-Brighid folks alike, and most of the conversations that happened in it after that point focused on questions of "what next?" and "how can we keep this going while still being inclusive?"

But the energy had scattered. No one has posted in that SIG in ages, even though many of the people having this conversation now are a part of it.

I know that I've continued to work with Brighid as LotS (and LotS as "CosmicBrighid") on my own, but I didn't pack up to go play at home because I didn't want to share things with other non-Brighid folks. I did it because the LotS SIG was silent except for the chirping of crickets and it seemed like the moment of SPG had passed... but I was still exploring and growing and didn't want to put my relationship with the LotS on hold just because others had seemed to lose interest or find a different focus.

I've avoided chiming in during this thread (until now) precisely because I am really interested in hearing about others' experiences of the LotS and listening to their insights. And I was afraid that if I shared my own experiences of LotS-as-Brighid then it would lead to misunderstandings and hurt feelings like it did last time. But I am also a little sad that people don't feel comfortable saying, "You know what, for me LotS is specific-goddess-X" without worrying that others will assume they're trying to impose their beliefs or experiences on everyone else.

Maybe there isn't a way to fix that. I'm totally willing to continue to be a lurker if it means that others will be more comfortable sharing their experiences -- but obviously, if everyone feels that way, no one will end up saying anything.

--Ali

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2013, 07:31:25 pm »
Quote from: Morag;93534
The first sig was not a safe space. It excluded people who did not fit the SIG leader's orthodoctrinal view of what the Mystery should be, and in the SIG itself people who saw the LotS as something other than Brighid were not listened to. Posts were ignored. Every time someone said "Hey I think it may be Nut too," various members of the Brighid camp would FREAK OUT, and the rest of us would feel bad because we were apparently triggering panic attacks by having a different opinion.

 
Could you give some links or quotes of Brighid-specific folks "freaking out"? Because I honestly don't remember anything like that, though there was a lot of pretty tough, delicate conversation going on. I can only think of a handful of people who were Brighid-specific, and none of them seem like the kind of person who freaks out when other views are presented... So I'd really appreciate it if you could share some specific examples so I could understand where you're coming from.

Also, the two SIG leaders were me and Tana. Like I already mentioned in my reply to Juni, I was admittedly Brighid-specific but I don't remember trying to force other people to be. I seem to remember actively encouraging people to start their own threads within the SIG to focus on all the different goddesses that they associated with LotS, and encouraging people to do their own meditation and divination projects to explore different aspects and faces of the Lady of the Stars... As for Tana, she was never Brighid-specific even from the beginning (IIRC -- she can chime in on that herself, I guess). So I'm not sure what you mean about the SIG leaders being dogmatically Brighid-focused.



But I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about rehashing old grievances. If people want to, maybe we can move this particular part of the conversation to a different thread? Again, I really don't want to end up being one of the reasons why all the lightbulbs start breaking. :(

--Ali

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2013, 07:42:37 pm »
Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93562
I also remember how hurt I was when the LotS-is-NOT-Brighid people packed up their stuff and went off to create their own, totally separate SIG. ("Through the Doors of the Sky," which described itself as specifically focused on Nut and other Kemetic star deities.)

It is worth noting that the only reason I have a membership to the LotS SIG on this board is because - since I was able to see the threads anyway when I took on a staff role - I felt that it was inappropriate for me to read material of potential interest to me without officially having a presence.

I never joined the SIG on the old board, because it was clear to me that I would not be welcome there.  I felt that it was quite apparent, as someone is not in the slightest bit Brighidine, that my presence there would be considered generally inappropriate.  I do not have a problem with providing semi-private space for discussion - after all, this SIG, which I moderate, is such space: accessible only to logged-in members of the general board - but since there was a gatekeeper in place and I had nothing to say about Brighid, that gate kept me well and truly out.

The creation of the Doors of the Sky group at least provided me with a place where I could contribute without feeling that I was imposing on other people's turf.

Now that I have contributed my lack of participation in the past, I will allow it to resume.  I have, however, earwormed myself with the obvious Radiohead song.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:44:26 pm by Darkhawk »
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Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2013, 07:50:11 pm »
Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93565
Could you give some links or quotes of Brighid-specific folks "freaking out"? Because I honestly don't remember anything like that, though there was a lot of pretty tough, delicate conversation going on. I can only think of a handful of people who were Brighid-specific, and none of them seem like the kind of person who freaks out when other views are presented... So I'd really appreciate it if you could share some specific examples so I could understand where you're coming from.

Also, the two SIG leaders were me and Tana. Like I already mentioned in my reply to Juni, I was admittedly Brighid-specific but I don't remember trying to force other people to be. I seem to remember actively encouraging people to start their own threads within the SIG to focus on all the different goddesses that they associated with LotS, and encouraging people to do their own meditation and divination projects to explore different aspects and faces of the Lady of the Stars... As for Tana, she was never Brighid-specific even from the beginning (IIRC -- she can chime in on that herself, I guess). So I'm not sure what you mean about the SIG leaders being dogmatically Brighid-focused.



But I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about rehashing old grievances. If people want to, maybe we can move this particular part of the conversation to a different thread? Again, I really don't want to end up being one of the reasons why all the lightbulbs start breaking. :(

--Ali

I know that I got a distinct impression, from a few people in particular, within the context of the Cill, that a non-LoTS view of Brighid was somehow Doing It Wrong. That dogmatic approach dragged over from LoTS to the Cill made me feel uncomfortable within the Cill. I was still relatively new in my relationship with Brighid at that time, and I genuinely felt like the people who were treating this as WHO SHE IS, period, no variation, knew better than I did. That prescriptive approach (Brighid-as-LoTS-as-Brighid, period) damaged my relationship with the goddess who owned me, because that relationship was new enough that I didn't know better than to let someone else dictate it. When I couldn't wrap my head around my goddess being the same as the one described as LoTS, and others were so insistent that Brighid HAD to be LoTS, I thought I had the wrong number. It took me a really long time to repair that damage.
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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2013, 07:52:30 pm »
Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93562
Thanks for sharing this, Juni. (Sorry to quote so much of it, but I couldn't find any good way to only quote bits of it and still get the whole gist of what you said.)

I would really like to compose a reply to you, Ali, as you've put together a significant response to me. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable engaging with you; our past interaction has perpetually left me feeling talked at instead of talked to. I never get a sense of actual communication and being heard. I'm sure that isn't your intention, but it is inevitably how I end up feeling. I am pointing this out only because I don't want you to think I am willfully ignoring you; I did, in fact, read your response in its entirety.

At any rate, I hope you can respect, if not understand, my decision not to engage.

That being said, I do feel the need to correct a factual inaccuracy:

Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93562
The Lady of the Stars SIG stayed open to Brighid and non-Brighid folks alike, and most of the conversations that happened in it after that point focused on questions of "what next?" and "how can we keep this going while still being inclusive?"

The Lady of the Stars SIG did not stay open; I myself requested membership and was denied. You ought to remember that, as you were the one to do so? You directed me to the LotS Group instead, which has virtually nothing of relevance. You state in one thread:

Quote
The SIG is a private forum, so unless you've been added as a member I don't think you'll be able to see it. This social group was meant to be a more "public" face where folks who weren't part of the original group-UPG that resulted in the SIG forming can still discuss and explore and maybe eventually decide to join the private SIG.

Which reads to me as a a public vetting group, and given the scarcity of conversation within, I doubt I am alone.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:56:20 pm by Juni »
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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2013, 08:05:02 pm »
Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93565
Could you give some links or quotes of Brighid-specific folks "freaking out"? Because I honestly don't remember anything like that, though there was a lot of pretty tough, delicate conversation going on. I can only think of a handful of people who were Brighid-specific, and none of them seem like the kind of person who freaks out when other views are presented... So I'd really appreciate it if you could share some specific examples so I could understand where you're coming from.


No, I can't, because I have very few spoons to dedicate to this. We obviously remember things differently, and going by previous conversations I've had with you no number of links that I spend the time digging up is going to convince you otherwise.

Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93565
Also, the two SIG leaders were me and Tana. Like I already mentioned in my reply to Juni, I was admittedly Brighid-specific but I don't remember trying to force other people to be. I seem to remember actively encouraging people to start their own threads within the SIG to focus on all the different goddesses that they associated with LotS, and encouraging people to do their own meditation and divination projects to explore different aspects and faces of the Lady of the Stars... As for Tana, she was never Brighid-specific even from the beginning (IIRC -- she can chime in on that herself, I guess). So I'm not sure what you mean about the SIG leaders being dogmatically Brighid-focused.


I was singular when I said SIG leader. I was trying to delicately refer to you.

Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93565
But I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about rehashing old grievances. If people want to, maybe we can move this particular part of the conversation to a different thread? Again, I really don't want to end up being one of the reasons why all the lightbulbs start breaking. :(

--Ali


The reason the lightbulbs started breaking the first time was because specific grievances were not heard. How is moving these grievances to a different thread where they can be ignored again going to help?
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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2013, 08:13:49 pm »
Quote from: AlisonLeighLilly;93565
Could you give some links or quotes of Brighid-specific folks "freaking out"?

 
As a moderator note, I would consider it inappropriate to generally extract material from a group specifically formed to be closed and private and move it to a more public locale.  While this is a semi-private space, it is certainly more open than the space where those posts were originally made.

If someone who was a participant in the original group (whether on this instantiation of the forum or in previous ones) wishes to repost their own material, that would be acceptable.  I have my doubts that that will do anything to address concerns about perceived past hostility, however, as very few people feel excluded by their own posts.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2013, 09:00:49 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;93577
As a moderator note, I would consider it inappropriate to generally extract material from a group specifically formed to be closed and private and move it to a more public locale.  While this is a semi-private space, it is certainly more open than the space where those posts were originally made.

If someone who was a participant in the original group (whether on this instantiation of the forum or in previous ones) wishes to repost their own material, that would be acceptable.  I have my doubts that that will do anything to address concerns about perceived past hostility, however, as very few people feel excluded by their own posts.

 
Yes, sorry, I realized after I'd posted that that would be a problem, but since I was pretty sure Morag was referring to me, I wanted to know which of my own posts she was referring to. If anyone wants to PM me with links or quotes from my stuff, if they feel that's appropriate, then I hope they will.

--Ali

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2013, 09:20:48 pm »
Quote from: Juni;93532
I'd like to encourage others who had the same issue to chime in if they're comfortable- not that I want to dog-pile, but because my perspective is (of course) not universal, and I think with multiple people speaking up we can make sure the whole picture is shown.

I apologize in advance for any flailing to follow- this is proving rather difficult to write. I consider a number of the original LotS to be good friends, and I don't want to hurt people, but this needs to be said.


I want to thank you for dedicating time and spoons to answering this, Juni. I knew you (and others) had bad experiences but I'd never known how badly.

For myself, the responsibility of friendship involves listening to aired grievances and allowing someone the space and freedom to say, "What happened really hurt me." Even if I came away from that situation with a completely different experience. Maybe especially if that's the case. If I do feel hurt -- maybe guilt and regret -- it's because you, Morag, and others were put in the position you were, and I wonder if I could have done anything to fix it. (Because clearly I am capable of fixing communication issues between 12+ passionate adults conversing over the internet.)

I appreciate your frankness.

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If I recall correctly, the LotS phenomenon began in the Cill, in a thread about Brighid of the Forge. In the very beginning of the discussion, there was almost no division between Brighid and the LotS- they were basically the same, in the way that Brighid of the Forge is the same and is different from Brighid the Poet. So it's completely understandable that a lot of the people sharing in the LotS stuff were coming at it through a Brighid-lens.


Part of me wants to comb through old discussions and try to piece together a timeline of what was going on and when. But part of me also wonders if that would be the right decision. Whatever was said in whatever order it was said, these are the impressions that we have now - and these current impressions are what we have to work with.

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But as soon as anyone mentioned a piece of the LotS that didn't have Brighid in it- that might have absolutely nothing to do with Brighid at all- the mood changed. Significantly, from where I was sitting. If the goddess in question wasn't Brighid, couldn't be Brighid under a different name, or have some sort of connection to Brighid that the Brighid-kids agreed with, then she wasn't part of LotS. The LotS went from being something vaster and greater than Brighid to being SuperSizedCosmicBrighid. Anyone who didn't see Brighid, or wasn't interested in working with the part that was Brighid, basically got talked over.


This vaguely rings a few bells. Again, going off two-year-old memories here, but I recall being in the more Brighid camp and being worried about some of the UPG that was being tossed around. Maybe I was afraid that my UPG was wrong, and that my connection to the Lady -- the first divine connection I'd felt since leaving Christianity years before -- was somehow false. Or maybe I did see some of the splintering and frustrations going on under the surface and, having never really done this sort of UPGsplosion before, I didn't know what was "right" or what "counted."

For what little it may be worth, I feel and think a lot differently this time around. The constellation metaphor -- an image that changes depending on where you are in the cosmos, the ability to focus on one star or a different star or the whole, the Lady being all of these things and none and whatever She wants to be -- works for me.

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It was frustrating, it was hurtful, and it left me, for one, feeling unwelcome and shunned. I didn't feel comfortable expressing my thoughts- even when I couched them in terms of being a different expansive deity with strong similarities/ties to the LotS. I should have said something then, but I felt like I was stepping on toes, tracking mud all over the nice little CosmicBrighid party. So I didn't.


This is reminding me a lot of some Unpleasant Experiences I had at Bryn Mawr, only reversed. No one should ever have to feel that way. ((Juni))

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I'm glad that you all are talking about this again; I'm glad that you're trying to be more open and inclusive. But I'm not comfortable taking part, really, as much as I want to be, and I don't really see any way to fix it.

 
Thank you for contributing what you have already. If anything, I'm trying to think of this in terms of a Lesson To Learn (both about the Lady, and just about life in general). Communities and relationships take a lot of time and energy to nurture and protect, and when things are moving very fast there might be a tendency to take things for granted, or smooth over potential "roadblocks" that are really opportunities for a more measured (and more secure) growth and discovery.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2013, 09:38:27 pm »
Quote from: Morag;93534
So, I'm going to share why I won't be participating in LotS, take two, though I participated in the first one.

This post is all my own experience with the first LotS epiphany -- both as what happened to me, and as an observer of what happened to others. It will also probably be angry, because I am angry.


Nothing wrong with being angry. I agreed with Aster's sentiment that LotS discussions should take place without censorship, and part of that means hearing the negative experiences with the positive. Thanks for writing, bro.

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I am angry about the exclusion that happened the first time around. LotS started with Brighid, yet when some people wanted to move on and look at other deities, they were not listened to. Camps arose in the sig: the camp of "It's Brighid and ONLY Brighid," the camp of "Actually it's not Brighid at all for us", and the camp of "We see both sides, why can't you get along?"


I don't want to just say "what I said to Juni, except to you" only I think I would be repeating a lot. I think I'd be lying if I said I didn't remember some of that going on (even if it was a more retrospective realization) but geez man, I'm sorry.

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I was in camp three. For me, LotS was Brighid, but I also saw how she could be Nut, or others even -- recently I've come to believe Aphrodite is another expression of her.


Yeah, add me to the list of being able to grok that. Although I may just be copying you like always. *whistles*

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So no, I will not be participating. I'm glad that y'all are taking a more open view this time around and opening up the LotS to other deities beside Brighid. Truly, I am happy for whomever that helps. But it will no longer help me, because all I feel when I think about the LotS group is anger and betrayal.

 
Thank you for sharing. You don't need my validation of course, but I think those are all fine reasons for not feeling comfortable or willing to participate. I would love to talk about this more with you -- especially how you're working with LotS now -- either on the forums or privately or whatevs. *hugs*
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

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