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Author Topic: Lady of the Stars, Take Two  (Read 2860 times)

Sage

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Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« on: January 16, 2013, 12:22:43 pm »
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This thread has been closed while I investigate some serious allegations that material has been leaked from a private SIG in violation of the rules of that SIG in this thread.
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Hello, friends.

I feel like I should say something profound and wise right now, but all I've got is: this thread is for talking more about the Lady of the Stars. The more recent thread about Her was this one about Sulis and UPG. There's also this thread on LotS UPG and this very old thread where it all started, with Brighid of the Forge (and exploding from there).

I'm not sure what to do or how to start this conversation, but I would like to see it continue. To be clear, I think the direction we were heading in with the most recent thread (and feel free to bop me over the head if I'm wrong) was to include a wide variety of viewpoints and UPG (which might become SPG). We're casting a wide net and remembering to share openly and honestly (as far as we're comfortable) without censoring ourselves. If our UPG doesn't gel with another's, that's okay. We're dealing with a Really Big, Really Old, Primordial Being(s)/Constellation of Beings. We're all going to experience Her (or part of Her, or Them, etc) in a different way, and that's okay.

This conversation is also for anyone who's just curious about this weird and wonderful possibly amalgamation/team of solar and/or astral goddesses (and possibly gods) who have snagged the attention of some of the Cauldron's members over the years. No UPG is too offbeat, insignificant, or unrelated.

Here are some possible questions to get us started:

- What does "Lady of the Stars" mean to you? (Is that even a title that makes sense for your experience?)
- What feelings and impressions do you get of Her/Them? What symbols, colors, sounds, or other sensory imaginings come to mind?
- Which deity/ies do you feel most connected to when you hear "Lady of the Stars"? For you is it one in particular, or many? Or is there a goddess "behind" the other goddesses who is just the Lady?
- Really, truly and honestly, what are your worries or concerns about this new bout of UPG and our discussing it? Particularly interested in what folks involved with the 2010 LotS phenomenon have to say.

And of course, anything else folks want to share. (I don't think I'm the best at starting a thread like this, but I wanted to make sure one was started. So here we go!)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 05:45:38 pm by RandallS »
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Aster Breo

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Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 01:46:00 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658
And of course, anything else folks want to share.

Thanks for getting this going, Sage!

I have a couple of things going on in "real" life that are demanding my attention right now, and attention is a bit stressed by the nasty weather and attendant migraine issues, so I don't have much to say right at this red hot moment.

However, I wanted to add to your excellent list of possible discussion questions:

If there is a deity(ies) you connect to the LotS, besides Who, could you also please expand as much as possible on Why?  

I'm woefully ignorant about deities outside of the Celtic "pantheon", and I really need to learn more -- especially from people who have actually experienced them.  Sometimes, I'll see a name and get a (stronger or weaker) "ping", but have no idea why exactly.  What are the characteristics that connect that deity to the LotS (for you) -- whether traditionally recognized or not?  Are there characteristics that you see as problematic for that connection?

And are there any resources you'd particularly recommend for those who want to follow up on that deity?

(My Amazon list is well over 300 books right now, but, every time something snags my interest, I try to add the recommended books, so I won't forget them.  I've been forced to fully accept the fact that this is a life-long avocation.  ;)  )

Maybe we can use this opportunity to help educate each other.

~ Aster
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Shine

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 02:05:31 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658
This conversation is also for anyone who's just curious about this weird and wonderful possibly amalgamation/team of solar and/or astral goddesses (and possibly gods) who have snagged the attention of some of the Cauldron's members over the years. No UPG is too offbeat, insignificant, or unrelated.


Thanks for getting us going! :) I'd like to point out that solar and astral aren't as far apart as we might think. What is a star but a sun that has no Earth to warm? ;) That's how I look at it, anyway. I like to think of astral as the solar at night.

Quote
- What does "Lady of the Stars" mean to you? (Is that even a title that makes sense for your experience?)


Bast of the Ancestors. She takes the ba--the personality or what's eternal in us--and forges it with the ka--the spiritual force that animates us--to make us into a whole that can then inhabit a star. In my experience Bast is excellent at restoring things to whole

Bast as Sopdet, too.

Quote
- Which deity/ies do you feel most connected to when you hear "Lady of the Stars"? For you is it one in particular, or many? Or is there a goddess "behind" the other goddesses who is just the Lady?


Bast. Lol. But also Nit, Nut, Tefnut, perhaps Wadjet, too.

Quote
And of course, anything else folks want to share. (I don't think I'm the best at starting a thread like this, but I wanted to make sure one was started. So here we go!)


You're doing fine. ;-p Better than I can do. Wish I had more to share, but I'm kind of out here in the Kemetic side of things while most others seem to be in the Celtic or even Germanic arena.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Gilbride

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 02:40:11 pm »
Quote from: Shine;91671
Bast of the Ancestors. She takes the ba--the personality or what's eternal in us--and forges it with the ka--the spiritual force that animates us--to make us into a whole that can then inhabit a star.

Do you mean that once this process is complete, the combined ba/ka is incarnated in one of the stars in the physical universe? Or something else? Not critiquing at all, just curious.:)

My curiosity stems from the image of Brighid forging the elements of which our bodies are made inside the stars billions of years ago, an idea I've heard others express. What you're describing sounds like a mirror or reversed image of the same process. Like, we were made in the stars and will return to them. But perhaps I've misunderstood you completely.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:44:27 pm by Fausta »

Shine

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 02:51:33 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;91678
Do you mean that once this process is complete, the combined ba/ka is incarnated in one of the stars in the physical universe? Or something else? Not critiquing at all, just curious.:)


The basic idea is, once the ba and ka are combined, you get an akh--a word which translates to "magically effective" and invokes the idea of shining. Afterward, the akh ascends to a star and inhabits it, kind of like how the gods can inhabit our statues here on Earth. I haven't worked all the kinks out yet. ;) But at the very least, the akh belongs to the heavens.

Quote
My curiosity stems from the image of Brighid forging the elements of which our bodies are made inside the stars billions of years ago, an idea I've heard others express. What you're describing sounds like a mirror or reversed image of the same process. Like, we were made in the stars and will return to them. But perhaps I've misunderstood you completely.


That's a really neat image. :) Sounds about right to me. We mortals are made of star stuff and earth stuff. That which belongs to the stars will return to the stars (ie: the akh/soul/whatever you call it). That which belongs to the earth will return to the earth (ie: the physical body).
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Sage

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 03:00:04 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;91668
I have a couple of things going on in "real" life that are demanding my attention right now, and attention is a bit stressed by the nasty weather and attendant migraine issues, so I don't have much to say right at this red hot moment.


Life is quite busy on my end too. Maybe this is a good place to stress that this is not a process that needs to be completed RIGHT NOW - or even ever. Taking our time is probably a good thing.

Quote
I'll see a name and get a (stronger or weaker) "ping", but have no idea why exactly.


I definitely know what that's like. Personally I think those pings are us recognizing connections on a very deep level, even if we can't understand why or how. Or sometimes, it's the deity noticing us noticing them.

Quote
What are the characteristics that connect that deity to the LotS (for you) -- whether traditionally recognized or not?  Are there characteristics that you see as problematic for that connection?


I picked up a book on sky myths from the library called Beyond the Blue Horizon about a week ago, before this recent UPG storm hit. I think when dealing with the Lady of the Stars (whether the Lady as a Whole, the Lady as a Team, or whichever god/dess is wearing the Lady's hat at the moment) we could probably come up with a list of attributes that are really common and sometimes shared, sometimes not, between our UPGs

For starters, obviously stars have some role to play. :P Lots of celestial symbolism, specifically stars and suns. We have used a lot of astronomical metaphors to try to clarify our experiences. There's also a really, really interesting tension between light and dark, fire and water or fire and earth, stars and the darkness between stars, etc. I think the "Fire-in-water" imagery is close to Brighid, specifically, for me, but I think that same effect - beautiful, paradoxical, wonderfully impossible but still so real - is a way for me, at least, to understand the Lady/ies.

I've also felt tension between a martial presence and a healer; a regal and glorious queen, and someone who's quiet close and personable.

I know others have mentioned a cthonic/"dark"/watery aspect, and I think that's worth exploring too. I think personally the Lady may just delight in the juxtaposition of opposites. There's something beautiful and bewildering there.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Sage

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 03:06:05 pm »
Quote from: Shine;91671
Thanks for getting us going! :) I'd like to point out that solar and astral aren't as far apart as we might think. What is a star but a sun that has no Earth to warm? ;) That's how I look at it, anyway. I like to think of astral as the solar at night.


Excellent point, and that's an interesting way of thinking about it. In my mind, "astral" and "solar" are sometimes more compatible than either of those categories with "lunar." (Not that LotS couldn't be lunar - I think She/They could do whatever She/They wanted! - but the moon doesn't have quite the same affect as, say, constellations do.)


Quote
Bast of the Ancestors. She takes the ba--the personality or what's eternal in us--and forges it with the ka--the spiritual force that animates us--to make us into a whole that can then inhabit a star. In my experience Bast is excellent at restoring things to whole

Bast as Sopdet, too.


I personally can really affirm the LotS's presence as a healing and restorative one. I was diagnosed with depression in October 2010, finally went on meds, and a month later I had the privilege of being part of the first UPG-palooza back on the old boards. I feel like in part the treatment was helping me be open to a spiritual experience, but also the Lady had a hand in guiding me to more wholeness.

I saw the Lady then as specifically Brighid (and I still work closely with Brighid today), but Bast has been darting in and out of my life for a long while too.

Quote
Bast. Lol. But also Nit, Nut, Tefnut, perhaps Wadjet, too.

You're doing fine. ;-p Better than I can do. Wish I had more to share, but I'm kind of out here in the Kemetic side of things while most others seem to be in the Celtic or even Germanic arena.

 
Did you know there was a Nut-centric inspired offshoot of the original LotS group? There's a private group here called Through the Doors of the Sky - I didn't peek into it as much as I could have, but you're definitely not the only Kemetic who's been drawn to this.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Sage

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 03:07:35 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;91678

My curiosity stems from the image of Brighid forging the elements of which our bodies are made inside the stars billions of years ago, an idea I've heard others express. What you're describing sounds like a mirror or reversed image of the same process. Like, we were made in the stars and will return to them. But perhaps I've misunderstood you completely.

 
I can see that too. Sudden image of Brighid as Starsmith and Bast of the Ancestors as two ends of a soul recycling facility. ;)
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Shine

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 03:23:30 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91681
I personally can really affirm the LotS's presence as a healing and restorative one. I was diagnosed with depression in October 2010, finally went on meds, and a month later I had the privilege of being part of the first UPG-palooza back on the old boards. I feel like in part the treatment was helping me be open to a spiritual experience, but also the Lady had a hand in guiding me to more wholeness.

I saw the Lady then as specifically Brighid (and I still work closely with Brighid today), but Bast has been darting in and out of my life for a long while too.


Your story resonates with me. I had severe depression for over ten years. It was constant, with frequent suicidal ideation. I wrote more suicide notes, tied more nooses, grabbed more knives, and counted more pills than I care to admit.

Within a year of getting to know Bast, that severe depression was "cured" into something more manageable and there's almost no suicidal ideation. All this time I never saw a doctor, never took medicine, and never talked to anybody about it except Bast.

It still brings tears to my eyes. Anyway, this is why I say I'd probably be dead by now without her.

Quote
Did you know there was a Nut-centric inspired offshoot of the original LotS group? There's a private group here called Through the Doors of the Sky - I didn't peek into it as much as I could have, but you're definitely not the only Kemetic who's been drawn to this.

 
I think I read about it in one of the old threads. :) The Lady of the Stars ranges all over the wide creation, that's for sure.

Were you the one who mentioned there might be gods involved in the phenomenon? I get possible "what about me?" vibes from Atum. Possibly Aten (he is the literal sun disk). And if we're including sun gods, might as well throw Ra and various forms of Heru in there, too. Count Ausir in as Sah-Ausir, but he's a bit more lunar than astral or solar.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Aster Breo

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Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 03:25:50 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91681
In my mind, "astral" and "solar" are sometimes more compatible than either of those categories with "lunar." (Not that LotS couldn't be lunar - I think She/They could do whatever She/They wanted! - but the moon doesn't have quite the same affect as, say, constellations do.)

*snip*

I personally can really affirm the LotS's presence as a healing and restorative one

Yes, to both of these points.

About the moon:  I'm very interested in exploring the distinctions between sun, star, and moon -- especially given that moonlight is simply reflected sunlight.  Why do we perceive these so differently?  ARE they actually different?  Why do we associate different *kinds* of deities with each?

About healing:  She has seen me safely through some scary-ugly times.  And I know I'm not alone in that.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Gilbride

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 03:41:17 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;91685
About the moon:  I'm very interested in exploring the distinctions between sun, star, and moon -- especially given that moonlight is simply reflected sunlight.  Why do we perceive these so differently?  ARE they actually different?  Why do we associate different *kinds* of deities with each?

This raises the question of the extent to which theology should (or just does) evolve with the changing state of scientific knowledge. As far as I am aware, ancient people did not know that moonlight was only reflected sunlight, or that stars were distant suns.

So, is there a spiritually-relevant difference between a deity that emanates light and a deity that reflects it? I could see how there could be.

Finally, scientific advances have given us a picture of a much, much vaster universe than the universe known to the ancients. Our mental picture has been shifted to the extent that the idea of an "earth mother goddess" now feels local. An image of a goddess spanning all of our known reality is more likely to be associated with stars, galaxies, nebulae etc.

And maybe that's why we're meeting up with this goddess now. Not that she didn't exist or was never conceived of before- but that she is uniquely appropriate to this time and how we now see our place in the universe. If you look at it this way, it may be perfectly natural for a number of different goddesses to reveal their "Lady of the Stars" aspect in this era, because our picture of what a goddess is has to change to match a much bigger universe.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:41:56 pm by Gilbride »

SatAset

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 03:52:19 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658

Here are some possible questions to get us started:

- What does "Lady of the Stars" mean to you? (Is that even a title that makes sense for your experience?)
- What feelings and impressions do you get of Her/Them? What symbols, colors, sounds, or other sensory imaginings come to mind?
- Which deity/ies do you feel most connected to when you hear "Lady of the Stars"? For you is it one in particular, or many? Or is there a goddess "behind" the other goddesses who is just the Lady?

One of Aset's epithets is Lady or Mistress of All the Stars.  Aset Herself, or Aset Amenti (Lady of the West--Land of the Dead; also Night Sky).  Mehet Weret is a form of Aset.  She is the primordial celestial cow who is a goddess of stars, the dead, creation and a Mother of Ra.  I also get Aset-Nut, which is more of an syncretic deity or Aset in Her Name of Nut.  

I get Her here as a Goddess of the dead, a Goddess of the transformation of the soul, a Goddess of starlight and fire and the darkness and dawn of primordial creation.  

Symbols and colors would be the night sky, stars, suns (since the sun is a star), dawn, dusk and blue.  Lots of blue.  I got this blue, ceramic oil diffuser recently for Aset.  It is covered in stars.  Here is the link: Star Oil Diffuser.  The color is more dark/royal blue in real life.  (The picture makes it look lighter blue to me).  

I pretty much only get Aset or Aset-Nut as this.  I could definitely see other deities with this epithet or role in various pantheons.  Other deities that remind me of this are Nut, Hetharu, Hetharu-Nut, Brighid and it makes me think of Frigga too since She is the Mistress of the Orion's Belt.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:59:35 pm by SatAset »
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

Catherine

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 03:59:16 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658

And of course, anything else folks want to share.

 
I'm just poking my head in to say that every time I come across one of these discussions, I get a really strong vibe from Juno that I should pay attention. Like it has something to do with Her. So, I'm going to do that, pay attention.

Sorry, that's all I have to add at the moment. My brain is all fuzzy from the flu. Maybe later I can add something useful.

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 04:07:23 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91658
And of course, anything else folks want to share. (I don't think I'm the best at starting a thread like this, but I wanted to make sure one was started. So here we go!)


I have a general question to those trying to figure LofS out, with personal experiences: would you consider it proper, if an outsider like me pops in occasionally to leave a comment or two, if something I read in your discussions makes me head go "pling! this reminds me of...."?

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Re: Lady of the Stars, Take Two
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 04:09:17 pm »
Quote from: Fausta;91694
I have a general question to those trying to figure LofS out, with personal experiences: would you consider it proper, if an outsider like me pops in occasionally to leave a comment or two, if something I read in your discussions makes me head go "pling! this reminds me of...."?


That's exactly the purpose of this thread.
Where would you find new lightbulbs, when nobody comes over an throws them around? ;)
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

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