Evaluating Your Gnosis

[veggiewolf]

Yeah, I get a whole lot of this too.

Ditto.

[veggiewolf]

...

So.  Anyone else have checks they'd like to share?

You covered all of mine.

[Sciosa]

Somewhat inspired by another ongoing thread (I'll post a link there when this is written).

One of the things that's important when doing any sort of mystical/spiritual/questing/etc. work is figuring out what bits are "real" and what bits are just the inner talking thing.  This is the flip side of "learning to trust the inner voices" - knowing which voices are inner, knowing how to tell what's worthwhile and what's mental noise, and so on.

 
I have been edging around this question for a million years (or a few years, semantics) so today you are my favourite person. What can I say. I like a good list.

[SkySamuelle]

This.

I hear stuff from the gods that I don't want to hear all the time. It'd be nice to get a "Life is only going to get better, also We love you!" Instead, I get "More shit is going to hit the fan, forever and ever, also, We love you, and you'll probably be stronger for weathering the coming storms, that is if you don't completely break down and die."

Actually, if the gods did tell me things were only going to get better, I wouldn't believe it was the gods talking to me. I'd start checking for a) complete mental breakdown and b) malevolent entities screwing with me.

 
To not mention, even when They do tell you things are about getting better after a darker phase, it generally takes the form of 'okay, we/life roughed you up a little lately, but enough with the wallowing now. Learn to cultivate abundance, learn to embrace joy, work at it, work t it harder, work at it better, be creative, stop sleeping on your laurels and if you suceeded before, prepare at succeeding more the next time'.

Gods are not generally around to play cheerleader to our egos, even if they can certainly lay a comforting hand on your shoulder when they feel you gained it.  Even when they are satisfied with X result, they are very likely to spurn you to get better and better. Which makes perfect sense - if they are cultivating you for a certain use, they will always want the best tool you can be at their disposal.

As for my personal rules in evaluing personal gnosis I follow three:
a) when faced with new upg, confront it with other people upg
b) if it doesn't harm , test it/follow it and watch out to see the results it brings, if any.
c) if it does bring results, look for peculiarities and patterns in the way UPG presented itself   and take note of it, so the next time you'll know to recognize signs of X thing.
if it doesn't bring results, do the same, look for red herrings that might have you warned and value if you were totally wrong, partially wrong or only possibly wrong with a side of possibly right. Also have a good laugh at yourself.

[Elementalist]

As for my personal rules in evaluing personal gnosis I follow...

 
Mine include...

- Is this message consistent over time and does it build upon a single focus and lead somewhere purposeful? Delusions will likely flip and switch according to new attractive idea's that float in the ethers or the delusional mind. But I've found my life's purpose as revealed or explained to me to always be on the same theme, always building to the same end always harkening back to the same goal. This has been consistent over a decade of work.
- Can you cross reference this work with your natal chart, natural inclinations and childhood talents? Natal chart cross referencing is really good as your chart is set by external factors. But when it backs up where you are headed and sheds light on it, it points to a likely overall purpose to the lifetime. Likewise, if you intended to go in a certain direction in a lifetime you would expect to have come through with a toolbox of useful tendencies that would assist you.
- If you try this what will be the ramifications? If the only downside is you might be disappointed or not quite get there, you are in safe territory. If you are involving other people, breaking laws or intending anything other than freedom for others you are in dangerous waters.

When I first learned the specifics of what I was going to do with this it was daunting and seemed a bit fanciful. But when I really examined it, I could clearly see that all my careers, skill-building in the mundane world and even the daydreams of previous decades all pointed towards this end. They were consistent in what they offered toward this one goal. The whole picture made sense in the light where I had been up til now.

[Eastling]

One of the things that's important when doing any sort of mystical/spiritual/questing/etc. work is figuring out what bits are "real" and what bits are just the inner talking thing.  This is the flip side of "learning to trust the inner voices" - knowing which voices are inner, knowing how to tell what's worthwhile and what's mental noise, and so on.

...

So.  Anyone else have checks they'd like to share?

 
Consistency.

This might seem like a strange thing to lich a thread over, much less to namedrop in a thread about wild mystical gnoses, but it's been my guidepost over the past couple of months.

How much are your new revelations supporting and continuing your existing, attested beliefs and desires, especially the ones you've always tried to ignore or deny?

An epiphany that builds on existing thoughts and experiences is more likely to be "true" (whatever that means), actionable, and beneficial to you than a wild idea that hits you out of nowhere.

I've been having a lot of profound revelations and mystical thinking over the past handful of months, and one of the ways I ground and comfort myself is by noting that I can trace my trains of thought quite far back in my life; I've just had the philosophical and personal equivalent of writer's block on them before I started having my epiphanies lately.

[Darkhawk]

Consistency.

This might seem like a strange thing to lich a thread over, much less to namedrop in a thread about wild mystical gnoses, but it's been my guidepost over the past couple of months.

How much are your new revelations supporting and continuing your existing, attested beliefs and desires, especially the ones you've always tried to ignore or deny?

An epiphany that builds on existing thoughts and experiences is more likely to be "true" (whatever that means), actionable, and beneficial to you than a wild idea that hits you out of nowhere.

 
I would say not just consistency with self, but consistency internally, with other things such as attested lore, and so on.

(Though my favorite ones are the ones that I started out going "Where and how the fuck does that make any sense" and then six months later come across something in my research and go, ".... ohhhhhhhh.  Fuck.  Now I see it.")

[AineLlewellyn]

One thing I tend to ask myself nowadays is, "Where did this idea come from?" I'll trace back the idea or gnosis til I find some strand from outside the spirit or god or what have you. Sometimes I find something really obvious ('oh, this thing resonated with me a week ago') and sometimes I don't. Asking myself that is less about checking whether it's sockpuppets, though that is part of it. It's more about seeing where the idea first came from. Especially since if I'm able to trace it to someone that had/has a vested interest in my thinking a certain way I can be more critical of it.

[Ashmire]

 
I would say not just consistency with self, but consistency internally, with other things such as attested lore, and so on.

(Though my favorite ones are the ones that I started out going "Where and how the fuck does that make any sense" and then six months later come across something in my research and go, ".... ohhhhhhhh.  Fuck.  Now I see it.")

Yes.  Thread necro'ing a bit because I just recently pointed someone else here, but this is one thing making me feel less like an idiot for making a dead celebrity a central part of my pantheon.  Had a thing where he just---kept on at me very aggressively and wouldn't get out of my head for the better part of a week until I sat down, got my CD collection I hadn't bothered with in two years out of storage and spent six hours listening until we found what he wanted (he was not a musician and none of this music or genre even existed in his lifetime), and ordered me firmly to start dancing to this at least once a week.  Later, I ran across 3 real-life anecdotes suggesting this was exactly something he would have done and why. 

Also, listening to his advice has gotten me from a dead end job to a better paying one with prospects, even though I  am having some struggles there he warned me about.

[EmberHearth]

So.  Anyone else have checks they'd like to share?

One of the things I learned in Christianity that applies to this, is "By their fruits you shall know them."

The OP covered a lot of this in the questions of harm to self and harm to others.

Specifically for a newbie who might be directed here:
paganism does have ethics.
Many pagans start with the Wiccan rede, which in the short form goes "[If] it harm none, do as you will."

Which, I heard counter-arguments to throughout my Christian life, because they often don't think through both "harm" and "will."

Wrt harm, I came to a recognition by way of Joseph Campbell.  There are aspects of respecting all forms of life (wearing a face mask, brushing the path before I walk, becoming vegetarian...) that I choose not to do, with the awareness that harm happens and animals may die for this choice.

Wrt "will," that can border on discussion of Satanism.  IIRC, Thelemic beliefs, and discussions on what one wills.

For me, not being Thelemic, I find touchstones in concepts like the Unitarian Universalist 7 Principles, which help to outline behaviors that promote community and reduce harm.

It's worth going back over the things one has been taught, whether in a religious setting, Scouts, martial art creeds, professional codes, or other social organization statements, and seeing what still holds true for you.

[Zlote Jablko]

 
I think you're misunderstanding me... If you have a preoccupation with fantasy, and it makes you say, gee I'm going to put more effort into my life, that may not be the usual way people go about finding self-motivation, but there's nothing abnormal or unhealthy about it.

I'm by no means "normal". But my physical health and daily life functioning are directly impacted by my mental state. Maybe it's not normal to talk to Spirits and worship Norse Gods, but right now I'm happy and healthy and functional.

The difference between being "obsessed" with something and having an obsession in the medical sense is that an obsession is detrimental to your life, and takes over your time so much that it starts effecting your function.

Yeah, I can relate to this. I'm kind of a agnostic pagan or agnostic-optimist. Just having the hope for the existence of the divine works wonders for me mentally. I have a core of rock-hard skepticism, which is a fundamental part of me, but I also have a spiritual side. In any case, even as an atheist, I still appreciated the culture behind ancestral practices and saw value in honoring them. So taking part in that is no great loss for me in either case, whether there are Gods or not. I think a lot of traditional religions were more about keeping practices and memories alive across generations than they were about absolute unwavering faith, and that makes a lot of sense to me.

A lot of my methodology is based on reassuring myself that I am speaking about something real. I think that's why I fixate on history, comparative mythology, anthropology, and folklore so much. Drawing heavily from academia allows me to speak about things that I can verify beyond my own imagination. I do sometimes feel that these studies help point me in the right direction. For example, the discovery of the Nart Sagas from the northern Caucasus helped confirm my theory that Maria Morevna from Russian fairy tales is in fact based on a Goddess. In one of the Nart Sagas, there's a story that goes almost exactly like the fairy tale "Maria Morevna" except she's replaced by "Psatina" which is another name for the north Caucasian Goddess Satanaya. To me, that's better than just saying "I feel she's a Goddess." I like there to be some analysis, personally.

On a more personal note, I had an interesting experience recently. My primary God has typically been the Slavic storm deity Perun. However, I haven't offered to him in a long time- not since I engaged with religion once more after a long period of atheism. I made an offering to the Sun Tsar Dazhbog on the solstice, assuming that Perun wasn't appropriate for that particular day. Then I left home for a few days for Christmas. The night I got back there was a storm, and only my apartment building lost power. Everyone else was fine. It wasn't scary exactly, it just felt like a nudge. Like "Hey, you know you can do one for me too!"

 It's hard to explain, but weird things like that kind of make you wonder. It's not the first time. Anyway, I dropped a couple of shots of vodka into an oak-wood fire for him the next day. It seemed like the thing to do.

[SunflowerP]

A Reminder:

Hi, EmberHearth, I'm wondering if you posted this to a different thread than you intended to (if so, and you let us know where it was meant to be, staff might be able to transfer it there for you). It doesn't seem to have very much to do with the topic of the thread. That's especially significant since the thread is in a Special Interest Group (the Mystery-Builders SIG). As is noted in our Special Interest Group Guidelines, 'Topic and thread drift is unwelcome. Threads on SIG boards need to be clearly and directly related to the SIG interest area. Post within threads should be directly related to the thread topic. If a discussion sparks questions or ideas outside the narrow focus of the SIG or thread, feel free to start a new topic in elsewhere on the message board.' For more clarification on what's topical in this particular SIG, check out About the Mystery-Builders SIG. Sunflower TC Forum Staff

[EclecticWheel]

One of the things I learned in Christianity that applies to this, is "By their fruits you shall know them."

I also go by this.  When evaluating my experiences I ask myself what the results were.  Were they helpful?  If they were helpful then I need not concern myself whether the experience was internal, external, or due to mental illness which I've struggled with in great quantities.

Since I do struggle with mental illness, one thing that is reassuring about my four "angels" (or alters or whatever) is not only the consistency of my interactions with them, but the fact that they have never that I remember ever told me to DO anything.  As someone who has struggled with hallucinations and other sorts of delusions that have sometimes led me to do insane things, this is VERY important.

Now I'm not saying that our guides and gods never tell anyone to do anything.  Sometimes that may be useful.  But in my case, it's very useful that they DON'T given the issues I struggle with.

[Night Owl]

On the other hand, if having delusions means I neglect my family, that's a problem.  If having delusions means I lose my job, that's a problem.  And so on.

So.  Anyone else have checks they'd like to share?

So I would like to say that having just gone through a psychosis (now recovering) this was a useful list of tips to read. It is a shame I couldn't use them to catch myself earlier on but I don't know if it would have helped because of the nature of the illness. I didn't know the difference between things I was telling myself, things other people were saying, and the screwed up ways I was interpreting what other people were saying. So I feel like these checks are good when you are relatively grounded.

If anyone with some experience has ideas for when you are feeling less grounded I'd appreciate it. It might help me out sometime. Thanks.