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Author Topic: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing  (Read 619 times)

Phouka

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Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« on: June 27, 2013, 11:04:22 am »
Okay, I'm starting this off as I asked the question on the main boards.

I'm having a problem with channeling/horsing of Macha. She seems to want me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's real. Darkhawk's post on how to look at what is happening logically is very helpful.

My only previous experience with channeling was not a good one. The person who lead the group (4 or 5 not counting me) would 'channel' Macha, the Morrighan, or Tyr and then verbally or physically abuse coveners that didn't do exactly what they were told to do by the leader. All the members seemed to have disassociative personality disorder and were going to the same pychologist that the leader insisted they go to. No one but the leader would 'channel'. I got out when she went after one of her coveners in my presences. I'm an abuse survivor and I don't take seeing it very well. Unfortunately, only one other person left when I did and she was relatively new to the group also.

Anyway, I currently do have a supportive support group, so I'm not doing anything unsupervised, although so far I've had only one experience and that was after a major working to deal with my parents issues. That I don't remember but the folks who where there told me that it happened. What I did get was a vision of Macha telling me to quit smoking (immediately) and then get in better shape, both of which have happened. Still working on the getting in shape.

The group I'm currently associated with is a vodoun house (I am not a member, but the leader is one of my closest friends), so horsing (the god is here and I am not kind) is accepted and practiced regularly. At our last ritual, one of the members horsed Ana for a new member of the house.

I am very skeptical of horsing; but getting messages thru vision or dream I have no problem with.

I'd really like to talk to folks who have channeled or horsed (either or) their deities.
Was it just those you look to?
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?

I think that so far, what I have experienced has been good for me. I did quit smoking. I am getting in better shape. I just don't want to fall into the 'I am a godphone'.


I've been on the boards off and on for years and have never felt comfortable talking about this.

veggiewolf

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 12:20:30 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
...

I'd really like to talk to folks who have channeled or horsed (either or) their deities.


I'm happy to share my experiences, although they're probably not typical.

Quote
Was it just those you look to?


No.  

Quote
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?


Yes, but I actually asked for it.

Quote
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?


Yes, along with one hell of a headache afterwards.

I'll explain what happened to me...and what's been going on since.

A friend of mine, who is a godphone/divine switchboard/what-have-you was going to be leading a workshop and was stressed enough that she knew that having anyone pop-in would be distracting.  I offered to "take messages for her"...and, like someone new to the whole thing, didn't specify an end point.

And, then the messages started.  And kept coming during the workshop.  And kept coming after the workshop.  And kept coming even after I downloaded the information to her.  You get the picture.

It took me a good 2-3 weeks to figure out how to filter the important items from the random cocktail party chatter - I ended up visualizing stuffing my head with a tea strainer and muslin tea bags.  Now, thing are much clearer - much of what I get, when I get anything, is useful for someone (not always me, mind you) and it has actually helped me clarify what I need to be doing and what I don't.  

I tend to call it "being an answering machine" rather than channeling or horsing - I'm aware of what is going on, and I almost always hear spoken words within my head that aren't in my own mental voice AND don't fit my own inner dialogue.

Not sure if that helps at all, but I'm happy to answer questions.
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Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 05:47:54 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
Okay, I'm starting this off as I asked the question on the main boards.

I'm having a problem with channeling/horsing of Macha. She seems to want me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's real. Darkhawk's post on how to look at what is happening logically is very helpful.

My only previous experience with channeling was not a good one. The person who lead the group (4 or 5 not counting me) would 'channel' Macha, the Morrighan, or Tyr and then verbally or physically abuse coveners that didn't do exactly what they were told to do by the leader. All the members seemed to have disassociative personality disorder and were going to the same pychologist that the leader insisted they go to. No one but the leader would 'channel'. I got out when she went after one of her coveners in my presences. I'm an abuse survivor and I don't take seeing it very well. Unfortunately, only one other person left when I did and she was relatively new to the group also.

Anyway, I currently do have a supportive support group, so I'm not doing anything unsupervised, although so far I've had only one experience and that was after a major working to deal with my parents issues. That I don't remember but the folks who where there told me that it happened. What I did get was a vision of Macha telling me to quit smoking (immediately) and then get in better shape, both of which have happened. Still working on the getting in shape.

The group I'm currently associated with is a vodoun house (I am not a member, but the leader is one of my closest friends), so horsing (the god is here and I am not kind) is accepted and practiced regularly. At our last ritual, one of the members horsed Ana for a new member of the house.

I am very skeptical of horsing; but getting messages thru vision or dream I have no problem with.

I'd really like to talk to folks who have channeled or horsed (either or) their deities.
Was it just those you look to?
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?

I think that so far, what I have experienced has been good for me. I did quit smoking. I am getting in better shape. I just don't want to fall into the 'I am a godphone'.


I've been on the boards off and on for years and have never felt comfortable talking about this.

I call myself a deity switchboard.  The message comes in, I speak it (or type it, really).  Often, oddly, Kemetic gods, even though I'm not Kemetic.  Sometimes Greek.  Occasionally I get hints of other gods, but without enough context for identification.

And ... I take it in stride.  It is a truth of my life.  If I started getting messages that worked out to serve-Shadow type things, I'd assume I was talking to myself.  But what I do appears to help people, and it is something that I feel needs doing.  There are times when it's annoying, but hey, find me something that isn't.

I would have a problem turning my body over to anyone, even a god I trusted, but that has to do with my body detachment issues.  I fear getting lost.  If that fear wasn't there and I couldn't do what needed doing as I currently do it would be a different question.  (Though still creepy to me.  Again, issues).  It's also never been needed, because my head is plenty open.

(For anyone curious, FlameKeeping itself is not channeled in any way.  Inspired, yes, but not channeled.)

Phouka

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 06:45:06 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;113945

I would have a problem turning my body over to anyone, even a god I trusted, but that has to do with my body detachment issues.  I fear getting lost.  If that fear wasn't there and I couldn't do what needed doing as I currently do it would be a different question.  (Though still creepy to me.  Again, issues).  It's also never been needed, because my head is plenty open.

(For anyone curious, FlameKeeping itself is not channeled in any way.  Inspired, yes, but not channeled.)


I think this is what bothers me the most. The getting lost part or loss of control. For so much of my life I wasn't in control. My past was. I am an incest survivor and from an alcololic family, so there were major issues and loss of self and self esteem.

The major working I talked about earlier had to do with retrieving soul shards that had been lost and reintegrating (which I'm still doing) emotion & trust into my life.

Chavi and I talked about this when I met her before her death. We met up for a weekend in Atlanta. But we never talked about channeling. Although I got the feeling she did as she told me that she'd been told to come meet me.

So far, I have only one experience, but part of the training I'm getting will involve channeling. It really resonates on the lack of trust issue. I think that's my major block.

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Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 07:49:29 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113950
I think this is what bothers me the most. The getting lost part or loss of control. For so much of my life I wasn't in control. My past was. I am an incest survivor and from an alcololic family, so there were major issues and loss of self and self esteem.

The major working I talked about earlier had to do with retrieving soul shards that had been lost and reintegrating (which I'm still doing) emotion & trust into my life.

Chavi and I talked about this when I met her before her death. We met up for a weekend in Atlanta. But we never talked about channeling. Although I got the feeling she did as she told me that she'd been told to come meet me.

So far, I have only one experience, but part of the training I'm getting will involve channeling. It really resonates on the lack of trust issue. I think that's my major block.

The thing is, channelling isn't a big loss of control.  It's like being on a telephone.  Yes I say things that aren't from me, but I'm always part of the process.

If I were you, I'd try to talk to Macha directly and try to find out EXACTLY what's being asked.  It might be something where you're always part of it.  It might not, too, but narrowing down what you're dealing with can help with dealing with fear!

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 09:32:10 am »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
Okay, I'm starting this off as I asked the question on the main boards.

I'm having a problem with channeling/horsing of Macha. She seems to want me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's real. Darkhawk's post on how to look at what is happening logically is very helpful.

My only previous experience with channeling was not a good one. The person who lead the group (4 or 5 not counting me) would 'channel' Macha, the Morrighan, or Tyr and then verbally or physically abuse coveners that didn't do exactly what they were told to do by the leader. All the members seemed to have disassociative personality disorder and were going to the same pychologist that the leader insisted they go to. No one but the leader would 'channel'. I got out when she went after one of her coveners in my presences. I'm an abuse survivor and I don't take seeing it very well. Unfortunately, only one other person left when I did and she was relatively new to the group also.

Anyway, I currently do have a supportive support group, so I'm not doing anything unsupervised, although so far I've had only one experience and that was after a major working to deal with my parents issues. That I don't remember but the folks who where there told me that it happened. What I did get was a vision of Macha telling me to quit smoking (immediately) and then get in better shape, both of which have happened. Still working on the getting in shape.

The group I'm currently associated with is a vodoun house (I am not a member, but the leader is one of my closest friends), so horsing (the god is here and I am not kind) is accepted and practiced regularly. At our last ritual, one of the members horsed Ana for a new member of the house.

I am very skeptical of horsing; but getting messages thru vision or dream I have no problem with.

I'd really like to talk to folks who have channeled or horsed (either or) their deities.
Was it just those you look to?
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?

I think that so far, what I have experienced has been good for me. I did quit smoking. I am getting in better shape. I just don't want to fall into the 'I am a godphone'.


I've been on the boards off and on for years and have never felt comfortable talking about this.

 
I knew Jenett had made a quite detailed and useful post about this a few years ago, so I went and found it. (I'd have sworn there was an even more detailed one, in which she lists four or five different levels of depth, not just three, but I'm not finding that.)

I, too, have 'control issues', in that I am responsible for what this body does, and I damned well want to at least be present for the things I'm going to be responsible for, and preferably have some say in them. So not going beyond a certain level is pretty much a hard boundary for me, when I negotiate this sort of thing with a deity - I won't say I'd never do full-on ritual possession, but it'd have to be a deity I know very well and have a great deal of trust for, I'd have to be convinced that it was necessary, and there'd be very detailed negotiations about duration, acceptable and unacceptable acts, etc.

I'm quite comfortable with what Jenett calls 'light overlay', though, and almost as comfortable with the somewhat-deeper 'sharing my head' (providing it's a deity I know well, or with whom I've negotiated it thoroughly) - the latter is quite routine in my solitary practice these days, in context of letting them make use of my tastebuds. This is one place where I diverge somewhat from what Jenett has said about aspecting (not in the linked post, but frequently elsewhere), that it's mainly useful in context of a community and as a community service; myself, I've found that head-sharing is frequently a useful technique as a service to deity-type people, no human-type-people community required (though it can be useful in those contexts too). I do agree, though, that some (most) of the levels aren't particularly useful except as an interface between a deity and people-who-aren't-me.

I'm also very leery of other people's channeling/horsing, having seen the concept abused too many times - I don't have any stories as appalling as yours, but on the other hand, I have several. It's probably more accurate to say that I'm leery - downright suspicious - of those who make a Big Deal of it in some way (usually involving their own Specialness :rolleye::). Not that those who do so are necessarily fraudulent - most of the problematic ones I've encountered seemed, as far as I could tell, to have at least some degree of genuine talent/skill/capacity/whatever for it; the trouble was that they were buying their own hype.  (Such folks are easy enough to avoid, though, as a rule: they nearly always take great offense to any sort of skepticism, testing, doublechecking, or questioning.)

I may have more to add later; right now I seem to be running low on brain.

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 10:18:12 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;114025
This is one place where I diverge somewhat from what Jenett has said about aspecting (not in the linked post, but frequently elsewhere), that it's mainly useful in context of a community and as a community service; myself, I've found that head-sharing is frequently a useful technique as a service to deity-type people, no human-type-people community required (though it can be useful in those contexts too). I do agree, though, that some (most) of the levels aren't particularly useful except as an interface between a deity and people-who-aren't-me.


Yay for a chance to explain this better. Or try to, because I just started typing an answer four times and had to delete. (So I'm going to try, but if it doesn't make sense, someone please point at bits, and I'll keep trying.)

My comments about needing a community context are two fold.

First: it is very very easy to get into an echo-chamber situation, where a deity is present (and may in fact, be present, and it's not something else going on in your head), but that you hear the things you want to hear, and because you're not talking to anyone else about them, there is absolutely no check or balance at all on what that does to your inner world.

This might be fine. But I think we also all know people for whom it turns out to be Really Not Good. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to turn into one of the people for whom it is Really Not Good.

(I actually know I have the power in me for really obssessive data gathering and fixation - um, talk to me about various fictional and gaming characters sometime - and I owe myself better than to run that particular risk with the Gods. I also owe my friends and the people who care about me more than to have to *deal* with me running that risk with the Gods.)

So, pretty clearly, it's good to be aware of this (really rather common) issue, and to figure out ways for it not to be dire, if you're going to do this kind of work. Up front, early, often (because your situation changes, your interactions with deity change, your biochemistry changes.)

But to do that, you sort of have to get outside your head. Because as long as it's *just* in your head, you have the echo-chamber problem. But as soon as you go outside your head, you are, in some sense, in larger community.

So the question becomes "what is doing this work doing for my larger community?" (whether that's your friends, or your family, or your magical or religious group, or the forum you talk about it on or your tradition, or whatever.)

I think there are hundreds, thousands of possible answers to that question. (And they definitely include "I am a happier and better human being for these private interactions with my God(s)") But I also think that the people who don't ask it regularly - every time it happens - are far far more likely to get themselves into trouble than the people who do.

I also think there's a degree issue here: pleasant moments or thought provoking moments with a deity inside my head are probably no more or no less harmful than pleasant moments or thought provoking moments with a fictional character inside my head. (And I have lots and lots of those, so clearly, I am okay with them.)

But as soon as I start wanting to do "Hey, Deity said X, and you should listen." then that's a) where a lot of abuse can set up housekeeping really fast and b) it's where calibration and active awareness of what's being said and who benefits becomes really critical. And those tend to be the more involved forms. (Not the "deity nudging you towards conversation" but anything that involves direct "I am told to tell you this" type stuff up through full possession/deity entirely in control.)

In no small part because as soon as you start letting other people (or deities) do stuff with you that has your name all over it, the stakes just got even more complicated for you, and it's *you* who are going to have to live with the consequences.

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 11:43:02 am »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
Okay, I'm starting this off as I asked the question on the main boards.

I'm having a problem with channeling/horsing of Macha. She seems to want me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's real. Darkhawk's post on how to look at what is happening logically is very helpful.


There is a good book about this topic by Raven Kaldera and Kenaz Filan called Drawing Down the Spirits.  In it, they talk about certain checkpoints or rules to realize if a possession is legitimate or not.  If the person starts talking about themselves, for instance, it isn't full on horsing (being fully possessed).

I channel written oracles for Aset.  While I'm writing, I ask Her if what I am writing is what She wants.  And I get consistent "yes" or "no" indicators.  Am I infallible? Of course not.  But I try to make sure it is Aset's message getting through and not my issues.  

Quote
Was it just those you look to?


It is mostly for Aset, but I have done a few channeled oracles for Nebet Het, Wepwawet, Sekhmet-Mut, Wesir and Ra.  


Quote
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?


Yes.  In fact, that's how I met Athena.  

Quote
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?


Yes.  I get words in my head and a Presence of the deity too.  And sometimes I get images in my head too, but that is more rare.
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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 12:33:12 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
My only previous experience with channeling was not a good one. The person who lead the group (4 or 5 not counting me) would 'channel' Macha, the Morrighan, or Tyr and then verbally or physically abuse coveners that didn't do exactly what they were told to do by the leader. All the members seemed to have disassociative personality disorder and were going to the same pychologist that the leader insisted they go to. No one but the leader would 'channel'.


So totally fails the check about whether or not the "channeling" is actually related to the entity doing it.  Blatant self-aggrandisation of the supposed spirit-worker, who is also apparently a shitty human being and a wannabe cult leader.  Fantastic.

Quote
The group I'm currently associated with is a vodoun house (I am not a member, but the leader is one of my closest friends), so horsing (the god is here and I am not kind) is accepted and practiced regularly.


I know a number of people who have had channeling/trance/horsing training through various ADR houses.  I think that if one needs to pick up that skill it's an excellent way to go - assuming one can do so respectfully of course - because that is a living tradition with the associated tendency to know how to deal with things, including things that go wrong.

Quote
Was it just those you look to?


I have only carried Hetharu specifically (that I can remember) and some spirit allies.  I have gotten several messages from other Powers I look to that verged on carrying them in their intimacy.

Quote
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?


Not for being carried, but I have passed on messages.

Quote
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?


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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2013, 07:07:39 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
....    
 So I spent the weekend re-reading Singing the Soul Back Home by Caitlin Matthews and keeping in mind what y'all have been saying here and what my friends have been saying and I think I've had an epiphany.

I've aspected before but didn't realize that's what I was doing. But then I didn't try to analyize or pick to pieces what was happening. I just let it happen.

I talked to my teacher about this and I've decided I'm going to let go of the doubts and TRUST. I've negotiated with Macha and the rules and boundaries are set, it's just me holding me back at this point.

What y'all have advised and described have been so helpful in making this decision. I'm not a very trusting person which has been one of my major faults for years. I self sabotage alot.

But I've been working on it and this challenge seems to be the culmination of that work. Do I trust my goddess enough to let her take control? Can I let go of my ego self and allow her to work thru me?

I'll find out this week.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 07:08:19 pm by Phouka »

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 07:45:45 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;114307
So I spent the weekend re-reading Singing the Soul Back Home by Caitlin Matthews and keeping in mind what y'all have been saying here and what my friends have been saying and I think I've had an epiphany.

I've aspected before but didn't realize that's what I was doing. But then I didn't try to analyize or pick to pieces what was happening. I just let it happen.

I talked to my teacher about this and I've decided I'm going to let go of the doubts and TRUST. I've negotiated with Macha and the rules and boundaries are set, it's just me holding me back at this point.

What y'all have advised and described have been so helpful in making this decision. I'm not a very trusting person which has been one of my major faults for years. I self sabotage alot.

But I've been working on it and this challenge seems to be the culmination of that work. Do I trust my goddess enough to let her take control? Can I let go of my ego self and allow her to work thru me?

I'll find out this week.

 
I forgot to mention I've also been reading the Lore & Spellcraft of the Dark Goddess: Invoking the Morrigan by Stephanie Woodfield. Except for some minor references to McCoy and Conway (although what she quotes, with one exception, are nuggets I personally would accept) I found the book along with Singing the Soul Back Home extremely helpful in clarifying my problems.

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Re: Aspecting, possesion, channeling, horsing
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 10:09:31 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113883
Okay, I'm starting this off as I asked the question on the main boards.

I'm having a problem with channeling/horsing of Macha. She seems to want me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's real. Darkhawk's post on how to look at what is happening logically is very helpful. ...

I'd really like to talk to folks who have channeled or horsed (either or) their deities.
Was it just those you look to?
Did you have someone you don't honor or worship show up?
Was there a physical feeling before or afterwards that let you know it was happening?

My experiences have never been full on possession.  My girlfriend and I live together, and we periodically channel, bizarrely, each other's deities.  I operate as a conduit for messages to her, "translating" in a sense.  She channels less often, but more intensely, being mostly taken over (though she retains a degree of consciousness).
(/|\\)  Fire in the Head: My Blog on Matters Spiritual, Political, or otherwise important to me.
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