collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: TV/Film: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.  (Read 2473 times)

PrincessKLS

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: 1983-10-02
  • Posts: 237
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
  • Religion: goddess worship grey, folk magick, hoodoo inspired.
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« on: December 29, 2015, 08:17:22 pm »
Okay so lately on my Netflix, I've watched Mad Men and Masters of Sex and noticed these shows are set in the 1950s and 1960s America. I've noticed in these shows, a lot of the wealthy white people have black housekeepers. I've also seen the movie, The Help. Doesn't this sort of reek of old style slavery? How common was this in post abolishnist decades and even a century was this? I also realize that in modern days a lot of wealthy white people also have illegal and legal Latin American immigrants as "help". Why so much of this slavery-esque dynamics?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 05:28:51 pm by RandallS »
PrincessKLS

Scales

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: BC
  • Posts: 376
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Re: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 09:44:00 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184206
Okay so lately on my Netflix, I've watched Mad Men and Masters of Sex and noticed these shows are set in the 1950s and 1960s America. I've noticed in these shows, a lot of the wealthy white people have black housekeepers. I've also seen the movie, The Help. Doesn't this sort of reek of old style slavery? How common was this in post abolitionist decades and even a century was this? I also realize that in modern days a lot of wealthy white people also have illegal and legal Latin American immigrants as "help". Why so much of this slavery-esque dynamics?

I'm not American and I'm white, so take this with a grain of salt, but I imagine it's because for the most part, non-white people, especially black and hispanic, were (and often are) still seen as a lower class, and not entirely incorrectly seeing as they'd had much less time to establish work, status, and so on. It would also probably seem like a natural move, in the eyes of rich white people, to just bump their black slaves up to paid employees and leave it at that. While that wouldn't necessarily be ideal for the staff, it could be better than ending up without a job or a place to live.

There's also that, even now, there's a (sometimes unconscious) stereotype of black people and/or foreign people only working unskilled labour jobs, something which is easy for a writer to go 'so this would be tenfold in the fifties!'

Also because modern rich white people tend to love the idea that they are very literally superior to others, and hiring 'lesser' races supports that idea.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 09:46:22 pm by Scales »

Faemon

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1229
  • Total likes: 9
    • View Profile
Re: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 12:29:34 am »
Quote from: Scales;184208
It would also probably seem like a natural move, in the eyes of rich white people, to just bump their black slaves up to paid employees and leave it at that.

I concur.

Social injustice can make great strides on the level of legislation, but what's called the de facto or cultural injustices are far more resilient. Any true vision of equality and freedom, I'm actually starting to think requires something far beyond any lived experience, which is a discouraging thought.

So, to truly abolish it, first, you (general you) need that impossible dream; second, you need to be willing to get there by examining internalized prejudices and breaking them down, which is also impossible because life is already difficult enough what with trying not to ever break down any part of yourself and keep together; third, this social movement requires you be surrounded by other people who are willing and doing that breakdown, which as established is already impossible for one.

Bizarrely, it seems to be happening anyway in a grassroots way. But social inequality isn't "history" in the sense of "over and done with". As to the original poster's question of how common it is...I don't know the statistics, but I expect it would indicate something like "impossible to get away from" level of common. Like, most-of-your-brand-name-chocolates-are-made-out-of-the-tears-of-child-labourers impossible to get away from.
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

Floofy Bunny

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 77
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 09:36:08 am »
Quote from: Faemon;184216
I concur.

Social injustice can make great strides on the level of legislation, but what's called the de facto or cultural injustices are far more resilient. Any true vision of equality and freedom, I'm actually starting to think requires something far beyond any lived experience, which is a discouraging thought.

So, to truly abolish it, first, you (general you) need that impossible dream; second, you need to be willing to get there by examining internalized prejudices and breaking them down, which is also impossible because life is already difficult enough what with trying not to ever break down any part of yourself and keep together; third, this social movement requires you be surrounded by other people who are willing and doing that breakdown, which as established is already impossible for one.

Bizarrely, it seems to be happening anyway in a grassroots way. But social inequality isn't "history" in the sense of "over and done with". As to the original poster's question of how common it is...I don't know the statistics, but I expect it would indicate something like "impossible to get away from" level of common. Like, most-of-your-brand-name-chocolates-are-made-out-of-the-tears-of-child-labourers impossible to get away from.

 
Quote from: Scales;184208
I'm not American and I'm white, so take this with a grain of salt, but I imagine it's because for the most part, non-white people, especially black and hispanic, were (and often are) still seen as a lower class, and not entirely incorrectly seeing as they'd had much less time to establish work, status, and so on. It would also probably seem like a natural move, in the eyes of rich white people, to just bump their black slaves up to paid employees and leave it at that. While that wouldn't necessarily be ideal for the staff, it could be better than ending up without a job or a place to live.

There's also that, even now, there's a (sometimes unconscious) stereotype of black people and/or foreign people only working unskilled labour jobs, something which is easy for a writer to go 'so this would be tenfold in the fifties!'

Also because modern rich white people tend to love the idea that they are very literally superior to others, and hiring 'lesser' races supports that idea.

 
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184206
Okay so lately on my Netflix, I've watched Mad Men and Masters of Sex and noticed these shows are set in the 1950s and 1960s America. I've noticed in these shows, a lot of the wealthy white people have black housekeepers. I've also seen the movie, The Help. Doesn't this sort of reek of old style slavery? How common was this in post abolishnist decades and even a century was this? I also realize that in modern days a lot of wealthy white people also have illegal and legal Latin American immigrants as "help". Why so much of this slavery-esque dynamics?


It is also important to keep in mind that yes, it is true that the types of jobs available to Black Americans in post-war America was limited, but also that history often doesn't write about the Black Americans (and other ethnic minorities) that were a part of a non-white middle class. It is important to remember what is being shown, as well as what isn't being shown.

DemeterDelusion

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 68
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 10:45:06 am »
Quote from: Floofy Bunny;184247
It is also important to keep in mind that yes, it is true that the types of jobs available to Black Americans in post-war America was limited, but also that history often doesn't write about the Black Americans (and other ethnic minorities) that were a part of a non-white middle class. It is important to remember what is being shown, as well as what isn't being shown.


Another point to consider is that, IIRC, black actors and actresses were rarely given non-servitude roles in Hollywood until the mid/late-60s, furthering the impression those jobs were the extent of POC employment. Since films are an important frame of reference for conceptualizing a bygone era, it makes sense that period pieces would harken back to such visuals regardless of how "realistic" it is.

I haven't seen either show mentioned in the OP, however, so I can't judge how well they handle mid-century race relations.

Floofy Bunny

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 77
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: I've noticed something from watching historical dramas.
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 06:45:16 pm »
Quote from: DemeterDelusion;184252
Another point to consider is that, IIRC, black actors and actresses were rarely given non-servitude roles in Hollywood until the mid/late-60s, furthering the impression those jobs were the extent of POC employment. Since films are an important frame of reference for conceptualizing a bygone era, it makes sense that period pieces would harken back to such visuals regardless of how "realistic" it is.

I haven't seen either show mentioned in the OP, however, so I can't judge how well they handle mid-century race relations.

 
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184206
Okay so lately on my Netflix, I've watched Mad Men and Masters of Sex and noticed these shows are set in the 1950s and 1960s America. I've noticed in these shows, a lot of the wealthy white people have black housekeepers. I've also seen the movie, The Help. Doesn't this sort of reek of old style slavery? How common was this in post abolishnist decades and even a century was this? I also realize that in modern days a lot of wealthy white people also have illegal and legal Latin American immigrants as "help". Why so much of this slavery-esque dynamics?


I watched all of Mad Men and generally really enjoyed it as a form of "prestige television." I thought it did some interesting work regarding storytelling in the medium, and it did some interesting critiques of whiteness though largely at the absence of black characters. Being prestige television, a lot of academics and cultural critics have analyzed the many aspects of the show. Some reading that might interest you:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/features/2012/mad_men_and_race_the_series_handling_of_race_has_been_painfully_accurate_/mad_men_and_race_why_season_5_may_finally_put_the_civil_rights_movement_front_and_center_.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/features/2012/mad_men_and_race_the_series_handling_of_race_has_been_painfully_accurate_/mad_men_and_race_the_series_handling_of_race_has_been_painfully_accurate_.html

http://www.blackpast.org/perspectives/mad-men-black-african-americans-twentieth-century-u-s-advertising-industry

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
18 Replies
3035 Views
Last post June 29, 2012, 11:10:32 pm
by Annie Roonie
74 Replies
5423 Views
Last post November 08, 2012, 04:18:09 pm
by drekfletch
1125 Replies
50742 Views
Last post August 01, 2020, 08:06:48 am
by PerditaPickle
36 Replies
3552 Views
Last post January 18, 2014, 10:01:16 pm
by kiarakapow
3 Replies
835 Views
Last post June 29, 2014, 06:57:57 pm
by Atehequa

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 52
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall