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Author Topic: Sex and the Sacred  (Read 5171 times)

Lokabrenna

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Sex and the Sacred
« on: October 12, 2011, 01:40:59 pm »
I said I wanted to start a serious discussion on the topic of "sacred sex" so here it is.

I'm going to start off and say that I find the term "sacred sex" to be problematic, but when I was just starting to recover from Catholicism, the term was somewhat useful in helping me understand sexual activity as a sacred act.

I'm not going to start off by saying that 'all sex is sacred" because I'm not sure that applies to every situation. I think we can all agree that rape is about the farthest thing from sacred as you can get (and rape is more about power and control then sex), but I'm also thinking of "cheating", of using sexual activity as a weapon to hurt others. It's because of those scenarios that I can't really think of sex as inherently sacred, as some seem to imply. Intent matters to me, I guess, as does consent (which I'm sure we all can agree on).

I should probably turn it over to someone who actually has hands-on experience with this topic (*winkwink*). I can't help but think that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Miss

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 02:06:19 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25091
I said I wanted to start a serious discussion on the topic of "sacred sex" so here it is.

I'm going to start off and say that I find the term "sacred sex" to be problematic, but when I was just starting to recover from Catholicism, the term was somewhat useful in helping me understand sexual activity as a sacred act.

I'm not going to start off by saying that 'all sex is sacred" because I'm not sure that applies to every situation. I think we can all agree that rape is about the farthest thing from sacred as you can get (and rape is more about power and control then sex), but I'm also thinking of "cheating", of using sexual activity as a weapon to hurt others. It's because of those scenarios that I can't really think of sex as inherently sacred, as some seem to imply. Intent matters to me, I guess, as does consent (which I'm sure we all can agree on).

I should probably turn it over to someone who actually has hands-on experience with this topic (*winkwink*). I can't help but think that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.

 
Oooh, finally a serious thread on this. I may end up sounding like a hippie, just a warning.

I agree that not all sex is scared, such as not having the consent of the other person.

Also, I'm married, and our consensual sex isn't always sacred either. Sometimes two ( or more) people just get horny and want to bash their bodies together for a helluva good time. Nothing wrong with that.

Then there's the deeply mushy, ohIjustvomitedinmymouthalittle sex that is two bodies joining into one. Okay, honestly I tried typing more but I kept getting carried away. I think I'll wait for other members to post more on this. LOL

Lokabrenna

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 02:15:06 pm »
Quote from: Miss;25095

Also, I'm married, and our consensual sex isn't always sacred either. Sometimes two ( or more) people just get horny and want to bash their bodies together for a helluva good time. Nothing wrong with that.


I think there's a joke about that, there's "making love", "having sex", and "fucking" lol. I think I'd call what you just described "fucking" personally, or is that something a little more visceral? I suppose my definition will be different from someone else's, different strokes for different folks, and all that.

Etheric1

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 02:16:32 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25096
different strokes for different folks, and all that.

 
Pun intended? :dwink::D:
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Miss

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 02:19:20 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25091
I said I wanted to start a serious discussion on the topic of "sacred sex" so here it is.

I'm going to start off and say that I find the term "sacred sex" to be problematic, but when I was just starting to recover from Catholicism, the term was somewhat useful in helping me understand sexual activity as a sacred act.

I'm not going to start off by saying that 'all sex is sacred" because I'm not sure that applies to every situation. I think we can all agree that rape is about the farthest thing from sacred as you can get (and rape is more about power and control then sex), but I'm also thinking of "cheating", of using sexual activity as a weapon to hurt others. It's because of those scenarios that I can't really think of sex as inherently sacred, as some seem to imply. Intent matters to me, I guess, as does consent (which I'm sure we all can agree on).

I should probably turn it over to someone who actually has hands-on experience with this topic (*winkwink*). I can't help but think that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.

 
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25096
I think there's a joke about that, there's "making love", "having sex", and "fucking" lol. I think I'd call what you just described "fucking" personally, or is that something a little more visceral? I suppose my definition will be different from someone else's, different strokes for different folks, and all that.

 
I never just call it having sex because when I hear that said aloud it just makes me think of a boring scenario.

Man: "I do say,fine lass, that some fornication is in order!"
Woman: "Jolly good,sir! Shall we begin?"

Lol. I'm sure that's just me. There's always passion involved when I'm with my husband.Whether it be lusty or loving.

Lokabrenna

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 02:25:18 pm »
Quote from: Miss;25098
I never just call it having sex because when I hear that said aloud it just makes me think of a boring scenario.

Man: "I do say,fine lass, that some fornication is in order!"
Woman: "Jolly good,sir! Shall we begin?"

 
You are SO LUCKY I wasn't drinking anything when I read that! My keyboard and monitor are relieved! :D

You know, there's probably a fetish for that way of speaking...

*would probably do anything for someone who can speak Latin in the bedroom*

Okay, now back to the serious discussion! :D

I just feel very silly today...

JuniperMorgan

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 05:26:20 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25091
I said I wanted to start a serious discussion on the topic of "sacred sex" so here it is.

I should probably turn it over to someone who actually has hands-on experience with this topic (*winkwink*). I can't help but think that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.


Yeay!  Good for you!

Quote from: Miss;25095

I agree that not all sex is scared, such as not having the consent of the other person.

Also, I'm married, and our consensual sex isn't always sacred either. Sometimes two ( or more) people just get horny and want to bash their bodies together for a helluva good time. Nothing wrong with that.


This. Definitely this.

Quote from: Lokabrenna;25099

You know, there's probably a fetish for that way of speaking...

Okay, now back to the serious discussion! :D

I just feel very silly today...

 
You can count on there being a fetish for anything under the sun and moon - and then some!  Nothing wrong with feeling silly! :D

As for me, well my route through sex and it's sacredness and lustiness has been a rough and tumble route.  I got the very nice added bonus of growing up being told that my name literally meant Sacred Place, and that I was so named because when I was born my mother saw my body and said my body was a Sacred Place.  Nice right?  In theory - yes.  In reality - no.  Couple that with the ideology that a male will only enjoy sex when it's painful for the female and some other nice mental abortions and you have one royally messed up teenage girl.

As I wandered through the mine field of finding my own sexuality, my name began to have very serious problems for me.  What do you do, if you're attracted to something that violates the idea of your body being sacred?  If you don't just lay there as a pillow queen to be worshipped (not, mind you, that there's anything wrong with that - but I prefer a more *cough* active role).  

Yes our bodies are like temples and should be treated sacredly as in:  eat healthy, excercise, meditate, don't play in traffic.  And yes, sex can be the ultimate for of sacredness in the blending of two souls - but that's the special and the rare, not the regular and randy!

And then there's the issue of Kink.  For most Vanilla (non-Kink) there's an ew/squick factor that arises even at the thought of Kink.  But used properly and mindfully, it can also be a way of approaching the divine or revering the sacred.  A lot of it is wholly about the mindset and intentions of those who are doing it.  One persons randy might actually be another persons sacred.  One persons sacred, might be another persons snoozefest or OMGSNOOOO!!!  

The point I'm trying to make is that while in VERY broad and general terms we can all, I think, to a degree agree that there are times when sex, and it's accoutrement, are very sacred, to each of us in their own way.  But if we try to define what exactly makes sex sacred - and apply that definition to all.  Well it'd be like trying to say there was only ONE WAY to be pagan and all other pagans were wrong.  It just won't work.

You have to find your own sacred, enjoy and relish it.  And not beat yourself up, when of an evening, just being a randy horny human being is all you want.  And enjoy and relish that as well for what it is.

My $0.02 anyway.
You can also find my ramblings at my blog although I\'m not the best at regular updates.  I\'m working on fixing that. Or look for me on FB here or Google+ here. :)

Morag

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 08:32:55 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25091
I'm not going to start off by saying that 'all sex is sacred" because I'm not sure that applies to every situation. I think we can all agree that rape is about the farthest thing from sacred as you can get (and rape is more about power and control then sex), but I'm also thinking of "cheating", of using sexual activity as a weapon to hurt others. It's because of those scenarios that I can't really think of sex as inherently sacred, as some seem to imply. Intent matters to me, I guess, as does consent (which I'm sure we all can agree on).

 
I'm of the view that most things are inherently neutral, and therefore most things can be made sacred or profane.

Sex. Can be sacred. Can be profane. Can be neither. Most things aren't inherently sacred. They have to be made sacred. They're made sacred by our actions and intent. So what's sacred for me would probably be profane for someone else.

Also, I'd never ever classify rape as a type of sex.

I've been raped twice, and those events haven't affected my sex life negatively. Not even when I couldn't admit for a while afterwards that it was rape. The things that did affect my sex life negatively were the emotional abuses laid on me by various partners. Those things still affect me. I can't receive oral sex because of those abuses, for example.

ANYWAY. Sacred sex. I've had sacred sex a few times. Once was during my first shift for Brighid; not to overuse the term "sexual healing" but, well, yeah. Another time was this past Labour Day weekend, in an Aphrodite's temple. There may have been a few other times, but I can't remember.

Outside of the actual act of intercourse, however, I believe that life energy is sexual energy. Sex and death, sex and death -- the core of the evolutionary process and, coincidentally, the core of my personal belief system. Everything is about sex and death; this is why Beltaine and Samhain are really big holidays for me. Also, Morrigan -- goddess of various things, including...sex and death.

And that deep, primal life energy -- that is sacred already. That is inherently sacred.

So sacred sex has a twofold meaning for me -- one is the actual act of sex* between or among enthusiastically consenting adults or sexual activities that are not classified sex between or among consenting adults, and the other is the primal life force energy that runs through everything, but you never really notice it until you get plugged in. And then it's really exciting.

*The actual act of sex being, well, however you may define it. Same for "sexual activities". For example, a good flogging for me is not inherently sexual. It can be, but I don't classify getting tied up and beaten as a sexual activity in general. Others may feel differently.


Also, all my UPG, YMMV, etc.
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Morag

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 08:34:49 pm »
Quote from: JuniperMorgan;25112
And not beat yourself up

 
But...but...but I want to beat myself up! :(

With a really pretty flogger. :ange:
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JuniperMorgan

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 10:05:47 pm »
Quote from: Morag;25147
But...but...but I want to beat myself up! :(

With a really pretty flogger. :ange:

 
:cool:  well now, that's a horse of another color - don't you think?! :whis:

By all means enjoy yourself with your pretty flogger, when you find the right one!  But, don't make yourself feel bad over something you shouldn't...:p
You can also find my ramblings at my blog although I\'m not the best at regular updates.  I\'m working on fixing that. Or look for me on FB here or Google+ here. :)

Lokabrenna

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 10:12:10 pm »
Quote from: Morag;25147
But...but...but I want to beat myself up! :(

With a really pretty flogger. :ange:


I've always been curious about floggers, but I'm such a wuss when it comes to certain kinds of pain. People poke me and I scream, but I can take IVs like a champ. I've been to the hospital for operations on my legs and eyes  (nothing too serious).

But of course, if you like them, go nuts! I trust you know what sort of intensity works for you. This thread is a kink-friendly space! :D

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 10:52:27 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25162
I've always been curious about floggers, but I'm such a wuss when it comes to certain kinds of pain.

 
Regarding that sort of thing, there are all kinds of different impact items - people talk about the difference between "stingy" and "thuddy" and probably some other terminology that I don't know because I'm not actually into that sort of thing.

And of course there are other sensation-inducers, too.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Miss

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 11:00:03 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25162
I've always been curious about floggers, but I'm such a wuss when it comes to certain kinds of pain. People poke me and I scream, but I can take IVs like a champ. I've been to the hospital for operations on my legs and eyes  (nothing too serious).

But of course, if you like them, go nuts! I trust you know what sort of intensity works for you. This thread is a kink-friendly space! :D

 
Sometimes I slap my husband across the face while we're going at it.

...wait, was the point of my post?

How many have sexuality as part of their actual spiritual practice? I've only really heard the Wicca-ish side of this topic. Feri is a word that comes to mind, but I (embarrassingly) don't know precisely what that is.

Nyktelios

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 11:01:20 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25091
I should probably turn it over to someone who actually has hands-on experience with this topic (*winkwink*). I can't help but think that I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.


I don't know about hands-on experience, but I am a devotee of Aphrodite and Dionysos, and interested in the Feri tradition, so I have some opinions. ;)

I won't try to sound too poetic, but I think sex is the life force, the divine creative power as manifest in humans. Aphrodite represents the female generative power, the tomb and womb that contains the cycles of life, death and regeneration. Dionysos is the male, phallic generative power. He is the full, erect power of life who undergoes cycles of animation, repose and reanimation. Sexual symbolism is inherent in so many traditions of paganism, and especially Witchcraft. I think of Isis and Osiris in the same way. Osiris was also a deity for whom phallic symbolism played a big part in his worship. After his dismemberment, Isis was the feminine generative force who briefly awakened him to life (rather, she brought his phallus to life) to conceive new life (Horus). That's my interpretation, anyway. Sexual arousal represents life.

Of course, sexuality extends beyond the reproductive function. Not that I'm especially experienced in the matter, but sex can be a celebration of life and pleasure, whether a person is on his/her own, with one partner, or more than one partner. In Feri tradition, the lust of the Great Goddess is the power that stirs the awakening of creation, and from her primordial orgasm, the universe was born. Her sexual desire is the power that animates life, and when a human feels that sexual desire, he or she is manifesting the creative power of God Herself (this isn't about polarity or male versus female, as we are all a manifestation of God Herself; the Goddess is the source of life, while the dual son/consort is the dying and rising power of life itself).

Then again, sometimes sex is just a good time without so much meaning attached :p

Morag

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Re: Sex and the Sacred
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 11:41:02 pm »
Quote from: JuniperMorgan;25161
:cool:  well now, that's a horse of another color - don't you think?! :whis:

By all means enjoy yourself with your pretty flogger, when you find the right one!  But, don't make yourself feel bad over something you shouldn't...:p


Of course. ;) I was just being...erm, bratty. :ange:
 
Quote from: Lokabrenna;25162
I've always been curious about floggers, but I'm such a wuss when it comes to certain kinds of pain. People poke me and I scream, but I can take IVs like a champ. I've been to the hospital for operations on my legs and eyes  (nothing too serious).

But of course, if you like them, go nuts! I trust you know what sort of intensity works for you. This thread is a kink-friendly space! :D


Well, I'm pretty much at the point where I don't play with people in the kink world anymore. There was an incident. So a flogger it would have to be, though I do prefer thuddy over stingy pain, as it's pretty hard to get the same sort of intensity from whacking yourself on the butt with a hairbrush. I know; I've tried. (Cannot do needles, ever ever ever ever ever. They squick all hells out of me. Only deal with them when I need to have blood drawn or get an IV, and then I'm crying in a corner, craning my neck so far away I'm almost an owl.)

There's only one person who I'd trust to do a scene with me, and he lives across the water, and I'm not ready besides. (Not the boyfriend; a mutual friend of ours. Actually this guy is the reason the boyfriend and I are together.) Someday, though.
 
Quote from: Miss;25167
Sometimes I slap my husband across the face while we're going at it.


Oh, man, I wish my boyfriend would give me a good backhand once in a while.

Trouble is he'd probably break the bones in my face because his hands are the size of Dalmatians and he is a living mountain, but I can dream. (He's a very gentle, vanilla giant. I once asked him to put some strength into a high-five and I couldn't use my hand for the rest of the day. So I let him stay gentle.)


Quote from: Miss;25167
How many have sexuality as part of their actual spiritual practice? I've only really heard the Wicca-ish side of this topic. Feri is a word that comes to mind, but I (embarrassingly) don't know precisely what that is.

 
I'm sort of Feri-inspired, as I haven't actually had a teacher at this point. I learn what I can from T. Thorn Coyle's printed materials.

There's a devotional dance that aligns the sex energy in your body (I know I'm explaining it wrong, but it's something like that). I did it once and it was too intense for me to deal with at that time. I'm going to try it again, sometime soon, when I feel ready.

Aside from that, BDSM -- which is not inherently sexual for me, though it very much can be -- most frequently expresses itself in my spiritual practices, whereas some of the most effective magic I do is sex magic. Solo sex magic; I can't get my partners to concentrate. They keep getting distracted by my gorgeous naked body. ;)
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