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Author Topic: Promised to ask this question around a decade ago... though this is a bit esoteric.  (Read 18832 times)

Darkhawk

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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168548
The goal is to find some one in a manner that removes casual interest to attempt to find out if casual interest should indeed be allowed, supports the worship of a single specific deity over all others ( I might add it is not a very obscure one in paganism today), and is in some form of leadership position within a physical community.

 
To address something more substantial: this question will not serve that goal.

First: I am not the only person who is forbidden from disclosing the nature and terms of my service to the gods without good reason.  (And "good reason" does not include "prying question from a stranger", which is basically what yours is.)  There are entire pagan religions - several different ones - in which that stricture is binding upon all members, though it is in most cases notably unlikely that your friend is sworn to those same gods.

Second: "priest/ess" does not mean what you think it does, in terms of practicality.  There is a large thread of "priest/ess" means "anyone who practices".  There are religions in which "priest/ess" is, effectively, the introductory rank; they are among the more common.  There is no guarantee that someone who identifies themselves with that term holds a position of authority; the odds are, in fact, good that you are likely talking to someone who is not a part of a broader community in a leadership position.

And, importantly: you are asking a very personal question, and you are doing so in a way that drapes you with fantasy tropes that will make most reliable people treat you with extreme caution.  Real life is not swords-and-sorcery novels where "Priestess, who do you serve" is a meaningful passcode; in real life, people who are genuinely concerned about their safety at any level (as your friend claims was part of the purpose) will respond to that with "Who are you and what do you want?"  Even those who are not afraid have decent odds of replying with "That's none of your business", because, fundamentally, it isn't.

In short: some people will not answer their question because doing so is contrary to the precepts of their religion or the obligations of their specific service to the gods; just because someone calls themselves a "priest/ess" does not mean that they have a role in the community or even that they want a role in their community, and it does not identify them as a leader; intimate questions are intimate, and many people will not answer them as a matter of principle.

If your friend was unaware of these basic things - well, it was quite clear that she was unaware of basic courtesy involving personal boundaries, from what you've said, so I can't be surprised that she doesn't realise that people often don't answer very personal questions from strangers - she is not terribly knowledgeable.
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Jenett

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Quote from: Darkhawk;168591

In short: some people will not answer their question because doing so is contrary to the precepts of their religion or the obligations of their specific service to the gods; just because someone calls themselves a "priest/ess" does not mean that they have a role in the community or even that they want a role in their community, and it does not identify them as a leader; intimate questions are intimate, and many people will not answer them as a matter of principle.


And to expand even further on Darkhawk's excellent comments, a few more points.

1) Many Pagans are functional polytheists and honour and serve more than one deity (often in varying ways.) Some paths, this is more or less a requirement (traditional Wicca honours a particular God and Goddess together), in many others it is a common thing. People may have a particularly strong commitment to one deity, or a strong commitment to one or two and a lighter commitment to several others in the pantheon.

2) In my case, I am especially in the service of a specific deity - almost certainly not the one you're sidelong referencing, because M'Lady, not well known - and her consort, but I also do semi-regular work with another two deities commonly honoured in my particular tradition, and another two or three for specific reasons and purposes. And I will cheerfully participate in ritual (including taking substantial ritual roles) honouring a rather high number more.

This is not uncommon in my experience of the Pagan community. (Which is reasonably extensive, both online and off.)

3) However, when someone asks me 'who do you serve' my instinctive reaction is not M'Lady's name (or identity) but about *people*. M'Lady instructs me to reach out to those who thirst (with a 'knowledge' implication on the thirst).

So I am serving her every time I answer a reference question in the library I work at, or post an essay on my information website, or kick around ideas with people in chat that turns into something useful, or voting to support library funding in my state, or contributing to professional understanding in the field, or commenting in ways that help increase knowledge, understanding, and connection to those things in online conversations, or - well, a lot of of other things.

But I don't do it in Her name. I just do it.

4) I also don't generally refer to myself as Her Priestess, for what it's worth: I am a priestess - and a high priestess and elder in the tradition - by the training of my particular path and the general understanding of the broader community. But I almost never refer to myself as Priestess of Whatever Deity, because that's not the syntax of my path. Or, as Darkhawk says, a lot of other paths.
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sailor

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Quote from: Darkhawk;168586
... to do what?

Exist as a vague, nebulous category of largely unconnected-except-by-politics religions?

I think I'm even more "um, no" about faith as a relevant category than I was before, if that's your understanding of how it works.

 
By "politics" I presume you are thinking more along the lines of "self identifies as Pagan" rather than Democrat / Republican?

Darkhawk

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Quote from: sailor;168594
By "politics" I presume you are thinking more along the lines of "self identifies as Pagan" rather than Democrat / Republican?

 
More or less.  There is the modern pagan movement, which is the primary common affiliation of a lot of pagan religions share - that thing which from call-it-the-40s developed a subculture and community that is the reason this stuff is considered affiliated at all.  The way there is that communication and conversation between the various groups and how so many of them are reactive to each other (and not always in beneficial or pleasant ways).

This is really Sunflower's department far more than mine, I'm not the modern pagan history buff here, but I at least know that the religions labelled "pagan" are affiliated because of political/social (as if those are hugely distinct) history.  The way each one has affiliated with and rejected Romanticism, the way the reconstructions evolved in reaction to religious witchcraft, the involvement of the druidic revivalists, and so on; all community politics.
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carillion

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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168492
I realize I posted this twice, I mistakenly posted a draft! Im sorry for anyone I have confused!

Furthermore, I failed to add that the reason I am doing this is when I made this promise, I had done so against "something unlikely but I very much hope for"

the possibility of ever growing wings... something I personally hold dear.


I'm trying to weed out some verbiage to get to some sort of clarity. This is what I've got so far (please tell me if I got it wrong):

About ten years ago when you were a teen, another teen put a curse on you because you refused to have sex with her. The whole sex and curse thing then gets put aside in this narative for the next part which seems to be that you are to wait for some time, then ask some unspecified person a rather movie-cliche question. This question is in itself problematical due to it's lack of specificity as most people in religions that have priestesses don't go around wearing the equivalent of a Habit or dog-collar to proclaim their status. Or she might have a day job as a waitress which would make the question hard to answer.

Then, if you get the right answer, you will  sprout wings. I'm not sure what happens with the curse part.

Is this pretty much the gist of this?

Asking_A_Question

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Quote from: carillion;168611
I'm trying to weed out some verbiage to get to some sort of clarity. This is what I've got so far (please tell me if I got it wrong):

About ten years ago when you were a teen, another teen put a curse on you because you refused to have sex with her. The whole sex and curse thing then gets put aside in this narrative for the next part which seems to be that you are to wait for some time, then ask some unspecified person a rather movie-cliche question. This question is in itself problematical due to it's lack of specificity as most people in religions that have priestesses don't go around wearing the equivalent of a Habit or dog-collar to proclaim their status. Or she might have a day job as a waitress which would make the question hard to answer.

Then, if you get the right answer, you will  sprout wings. I'm not sure what happens with the curse part.

Is this pretty much the gist of this?

... As well as everything else spoken, quoted :)

This reply seems reminiscent of a chapter in a book, so I do apologies for lengthening my response and would ask that anyone who feels they may be aggravated by being put to read such a reply do not attempt it and then be mad at me for it. :(.

Firstly,
Faith

Quote

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith?s=t

Noun  


1.

Confidence or trust in a person or thing:
"faith in another's ability."


2.

Belief that is not based on proof:
"He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact."


3.

Belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion:
"the firm faith of the Pilgrims."


4.

Belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.:
"to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty."


5.

A system of religious belief:
"the Christian faith; the Jewish faith."


6.

The obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.:
"Failure to appear would be breaking faith."


7.

The observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.:
"He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles."
Observe 1, 4, 5, and possibly 7?

In relation to the question not serving the goal, I understand that completely. 100%. I also understand that it was meant to, as was the entirety of the method of distribution, signify a "swords and sorcery environment." As it was explained to me, due to the fact that there would be no viable way to know the mind of who I was speaking with, find some one who can balance the fantasy world of common literature with the specifics known today. I.E. The fact that many people claim abilities outside the realms of science, and this in itself is a core portion of such novels and movies. The balancing itself was an attempt to indicate that the perceived threat was inherently ridiculous, but suggested a form of inquiry none the less due to the nature of it being covered in such ridiculous concepts such as a gem covered in grease. In effort to support this goal, I can restate that I am talking about the possibility of one belief system held by a populace less than the modern day faiths and religions to such an extent, followed by another of the same category. Never the less, due to research in to the topic she did find the question itself, and before running around screaming "they are insane and want to kill us all" asked me to find something relevant to the topic, and distribute it, what ever it was. This was a task that she told me she did not expect to be completed in less than five years, because of the nature of the inquiry and the fact that I was about to try and lead my very on life with my very own questions.

In response to Jenett, to whom I would like to extend my appreciation for for quite factual and laid out response, I would give further, direct responses.

I would like to reference here, as supported fact, High Priest of Ra, those whom would serve in temples such as the temple of horus, and so fourth (utilizing the Egyptian pantheon as a random reference). It is unthinkable to believe these individuals would forsake belief in the rest of there pantheon, though gave themselves to one. In this case, though, through much dedication. They would still believe in the others, and I would like to think would still serve the others of the pantheon in relation to there beliefs!

To answer 4, that description would fit a large part of the goal, and you should be honored for your devotion as such! And to reiterate a portion of this reply, the inherent "swords and sorcery" factor in this entire endeavor, as I attempted to describe in the term of "romanticism", was placed there with intent. Its goal was to convey that it was known that the question was ridiculous, though on some level of the question itself, one faith possible facing a transformation, that would put it in contact with another, namely hers) did provide reason to find out more about it.

On a side note I would like to point out that she was attempting to utilize sex magic, and I never cared to wonder why. The fact that she was angered was in reference to as soon as she realized I had never before cared to practice such ritual, I had just turned her down for sex on the context of being a male alone. I am pretty sure that would offend anyone, anywhere, of any gender to some extent!


-----


The final post here, from carillion, you do have some points right, some wrong, and some missing. As you have asked for a reply in a friendly manner (I thank you for that), I would reply to you in the final note in this long, and not proof read reply, so I may inherently look it over before sending it :)

The points I understand of your paragraph are as such, and replied:

You are attempting to sort out the horrible wording (my fault, of course) of my input as well as the not-understandable portions of the request, to understand the concept of what happened. I am grateful for your attempt!

About a decade ago, I was a teen and she was just over a year younger than me. As with any teenagers, a year does seem like a much greater time then when you are an adult, therefore her panic moved me inherently as such would some one in there high 30's responding to one younger, in there 20's.

She had attempted to ask for a sexual ~ritual~. She was worried enough to wish to attain some goal, I would assume some form of protection or guidance, from this established practice of magic(k).

I had denied her, and before she could concern herself with how now she would perform this ritual, she had realized that I had turned her down as a woman for sex, and was offended. She was in a state of heightened anxiety as this was realized and thereof attempted to convey, yes, a curse. (in which I denied any reason to care, she followed with questions of my beliefs being able to support this and we moved on)

The part I mentioned you skipped over was the conveyance of the problem. She had entered a debate/conversation concerning an attempt to compare parts of each others belief system. Something in this conversation made her believe that there was a conflict in the two beliefs that made them incompatible. I do not know any of the rest of this conversation but some where in it she came to a question of if the person speaking represented a system of belief that would allow for any form of persecution, social or physical, on matters of faith.

At this time she had told me she was not in a position to find out more, and did not want to try, for this question had worried her a bit. She was aware I was leaving, and would not be staying in what ever place I would arrive at on the notion that I was only there to find a spiritual figure whom had learned his ways through the passing of tradition through family. She had asked that I do what I felt comfortable to find out more information on (a) if this conflicting belief truly had merit in supported tradition, through the commentary of individuals with intimate knowledge of it and (b) if there was really any cause for alarm that some one, some where, could be entered into a physical confrontation based on this fact. Quite possibly while communicating with one of belief in a radical nature.

What happened was I did manage to find a belief within the belief system that would conflict with her own. I decided to ask more questions, but noted to myself that she was asking a question about possible violent behavior in those of a zealous nature and the individual I was speaking with fit the profile of one who could possibly fit that category, so I did not explain why I cared so much beyond interest. I did note that, while most, if not all individuals whom represent this belief system would ever take care to cause another harm, a zelitrous individual may hold a somewhat bitter resentment based on the belief. On that light I decided to take more information in and inevitably hit a wall in the conversation, where the person I was speaking with was no longer willing to communicate of it with me unless I converted. So I did. And it was a complete and total lie. The fact is when he realized to himself I had never become a true believer I was on my way out of of town and he did threaten me, out of his own embarrassment, with perversion if I was ever to return. That fact, along with the random chance of finding a zeloutrous individual being fulfilled, made me believe that her question held merit. It should be noted here that I had known this woman on the eastern coast of north America, and had found this individual on the western coast.

If I fill this task, I am not promised to "sprout wings", nor would I ever take a promise seriously. If I fulfill this task I am removed from a broken promise, removing me from any probability, though highly remote, of ever growing them. It is not the possibility of coming true that disturbed me, it is the fact I live with that it is due to a broken promise, not the unlikeness of the event, that I cannot.

I would like to state now that I in no way am attempting to convey a "final result" on the matter. I am attempting to convey the facts I have received and my personal experiences of the event, in order to satisfy said promise. A promise requested of me in reference that any one else would find reason for concern on what I had found, based on the fact that she did not wish to speculate a positive or negative result. The entire process of first selection is worded, tasked, and dramatised through romanticism in an attempt to find some one who can understand that this is inherently ridiculous, but also, at the same time, provide reasonable effort of easement of a further study, of any kind this person feels necessary, or not necessary what so ever. At that point, as well, the entirety of the document becomes hers. I say hers, because she wanted to be a woman, I presume because of a strong feeling of feminine superiority in matters of belief. I will not debate this... Interesting notion. She also wanted them to hold the same deity higher than the rest in there own personal "pantheon" because that fact remains that I cannot, and am not even suppose to attempt to provide restriction on the use of the information once received. The portion of a leader of a physical community was in two part. The value of some one that would fit the term in some way of "leader" presents a sense of caring for others, as well as an ability to denote higher reasoning in situations requiring thought before action. The portion of the community being physical is because she did not want to disrupt the "leader" request with the reception by some one who has only lead a community over the internet, as I am sure anyone this description can agree presents a very different perspective on the task. I do not claim to be such a person, I simply wish to say that I can't give this to some one who does not fit the description of a "Female leader of a community, whom personal belief holds a single deity ahead of possibly many others". The fact remains that the deity presented is quite common in the pagan/polytheistic "faith" "system" "group" "organization" or how ever else you wish to pronounce the idea that im not sure how else to convey! :)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 08:02:09 pm by Asking_A_Question »

carillion

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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168624
... As well as everything else spoken, quoted :)

This reply seems reminiscent of a chapter in a book, so I do apologies for lengthening my response and would ask that anyone who feels they may be aggravated by being put to read such a reply do not attempt it and then be mad at me for it. :(.

Firstly,
Faith


Observe 1, 4, 5, and possibly 7?

In relation to the question not serving the goal, I understand that completely. 100%. I also understand that it was meant to, as was the entirety of the method of distribution, signify a "swords and sorcery environment." As it was explained to me, due to the fact that there would be no viable way to know the mind of who I was speaking with, find some one who can balance the fantasy world of common literature with the specifics known today. I.E. The fact that many people claim abilities outside the realms of science, and this in itself is a core portion of such novels and movies. The balancing itself was an attempt to indicate that the perceived threat was inherently ridiculous, but suggested a form of inquiry none the less due to the nature of it being covered in such ridiculous concepts such as a gem covered in grease. In effort to support this goal, I can restate that I am talking about the possibility of one belief system held by a populace less than the modern day faiths and religions to such an extent, followed by another of the same category. Never the less, due to research in to the topic she did find the question itself, and before running around screaming "they are insane and want to kill us all" asked me to find something relevant to the topic, and distribute it, what ever it was. This was a task that she told me she did not expect to be completed in less than five years, because of the nature of the inquiry and the fact that I was about to try and lead my very on life with my very own questions.

In response to Jenett, to whom I would like to extend my appreciation for for quite factual and laid out response, I would give further, direct responses.

I would like to reference here, as supported fact, High Priest of Ra, those whom would serve in temples such as the temple of horus, and so fourth (utilizing the Egyptian pantheon as a random reference). It is unthinkable to believe these individuals would forsake belief in the rest of there pantheon, though gave themselves to one. In this case, though, through much dedication. They would still believe in the others, and I would like to think would still serve the others of the pantheon in relation to there beliefs!

To answer 4, that description would fit a large part of the goal, and you should be honored for your devotion as such! And to reiterate a portion of this reply, the inherent "swords and sorcery" factor in this entire endeavor, as I attempted to describe in the term of "romanticism", was placed there with intent. Its goal was to convey that it was known that the question was ridiculous, though on some level of the question itself, one faith possible facing a transformation, that would put it in contact with another, namely hers) did provide reason to find out more about it.

On a side note I would like to point out that she was attempting to utilize sex magic, and I never cared to wonder why. The fact that she was angered was in reference to as soon as she realized I had never before cared to practice such ritual, I had just turned her down for sex on the context of being a male alone. I am pretty sure that would offend anyone, anywhere, of any gender to some extent!


-----


The final post here, from carillion, you do have some points right, some wrong, and some missing. As you have asked for a reply in a friendly manner (I thank you for that), I would reply to you in the final note in this long, and not proof read reply, so I may inherently look it over before sending it :)

The points I understand of your paragraph are as such, and replied:

You are attempting to sort out the horrible wording (my fault, of course) of my input as well as the not-understandable portions of the request, to understand the concept of what happened. I am grateful for your attempt!

About a decade ago, I was a teen and she was just over a year younger than me. As with any teenagers, a year does seem like a much greater time then when you are an adult, therefore her panic moved me inherently as such would some one in there high 30's responding to one younger, in there 20's.

She had attempted to ask for a sexual ~ritual~. She was worried enough to wish to attain some goal, I would assume some form of protection or guidance, from this established practice of magic(k).

I had denied her, and before she could concern herself with how now she would perform this ritual, she had realized that I had turned her down as a woman for sex, and was offended. She was in a state of heightened anxiety as this was realized and thereof attempted to convey, yes, a curse. (in which I denied any reason to care, she followed with questions of my beliefs being able to support this and we moved on)

The part I mentioned you skipped over was the conveyance of the problem. She had entered a debate/conversation concerning an attempt to compare parts of each others belief system. Something in this conversation made her believe that there was a conflict in the two beliefs that made them incompatible. I do not know any of the rest of this conversation but some where in it she came to a question of if the person speaking represented a system of belief that would allow for any form of persecution, social or physical, on matters of faith.

At this time she had told me she was not in a position to find out more, and did not want to try, for this question had worried her a bit. She was aware I was leaving, and would not be staying in what ever place I would arrive at on the notion that I was only there to find a spiritual figure whom had learned his ways through the passing of tradition through family. She had asked that I do what I felt comfortable to find out more information on (a) if this conflicting belief truly had merit in supported tradition, through the commentary of individuals with intimate knowledge of it and (b) if there was really any cause for alarm that some one, some where, could be entered into a physical confrontation based on this fact. Quite possibly while communicating with one of belief in a radical nature.

What happened was I did manage to find a belief within the belief system that would conflict with her own. I decided to ask more questions, but noted to myself that she was asking a question about possible violent behavior in those of a zealous nature and the individual I was speaking with fit the profile of one who could possibly fit that category, so I did not explain why I cared so much beyond interest. I did note that, while most, if not all individuals whom represent this belief system would ever take care to cause another harm, a zelitrous individual may hold a somewhat bitter resentment based on the belief. On that light I decided to take more information in and inevitably hit a wall in the conversation, where the person I was speaking with was no longer willing to communicate of it with me unless I converted. So I did. And it was a complete and total lie. The fact is when he realized to himself I had never become a true believer I was on my way out of of town and he did threaten me, out of his own embarrassment, with perversion if I was ever to return. That fact, along with the random chance of finding a zeloutrous individual being fulfilled, made me believe that her question held merit. It should be noted here that I had known this woman on the eastern coast of north America, and had found this individual on the western coast.

If I fill this task, I am not promised to "sprout wings", nor would I ever take a promise seriously. If I fulfill this task I am removed from a broken promise, removing me from any probability, though highly remote, of ever growing them. It is not the possibility of coming true that disturbed me, it is the fact I live with that it is due to a broken promise, not the unlikeness of the event, that I cannot.

I would like to state now that I in no way am attempting to convey a "final result" on the matter. I am attempting to convey the facts I have received and my personal experiences of the event, in order to satisfy said promise. A promise requested of me in reference that any one else would find reason for concern on what I had found, based on the fact that she did not wish to speculate a positive or negative result. The entire process of first selection is worded, tasked, and dramatised through romanticism in an attempt to find some one who can understand that this is inherently ridiculous, but also, at the same time, provide reasonable effort of easement of a further study, of any kind this person feels necessary, or not necessary what so ever. At that point, as well, the entirety of the document becomes hers. I say hers, because she wanted to be a woman, I presume because of a strong feeling of feminine superiority in matters of belief. I will not debate this... Interesting notion. She also wanted them to hold the same deity higher than the rest in there own personal "pantheon" because that fact remains that I cannot, and am not even suppose to attempt to provide restriction on the use of the information once received. The portion of a leader of a physical community was in two part. The value of some one that would fit the term in some way of "leader" presents a sense of caring for others, as well as an ability to denote higher reasoning in situations requiring thought before action. The portion of the community being physical is because she did not want to disrupt the "leader" request with the reception by some one who has only lead a community over the internet, as I am sure anyone this description can agree presents a very different perspective on the task. I do not claim to be such a person, I simply wish to say that I can't give this to some one who does not fit the description of a "Female leader of a community, whom personal belief holds a single deity ahead of possibly many others". The fact remains that the deity presented is quite common in the pagan/polytheistic "faith" "system" "group" "organization" or how ever else you wish to pronounce the idea that im not sure how else to convey! :)



Just curious - is English a second or third language for you?

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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168491
So, with out further adieu --

 
But you just got here.  

Ahem.
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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168624
She had entered a debate/conversation concerning an attempt to compare parts of each others belief system. Something in this conversation made her believe that there was a conflict in the two beliefs that made them incompatible. I do not know any of the rest of this conversation but some where in it she came to a question of if the person speaking represented a system of belief that would allow for any form of persecution, social or physical, on matters of faith.

At this time she had told me she was not in a position to find out more, and did not want to try, for this question had worried her a bit.

She was aware I was leaving, and would not be staying in what ever place I would arrive at on the notion that I was only there to find a spiritual figure whom had learned his ways through the passing of tradition through family. She had asked that I do what I felt comfortable to find out more information on (a) if this conflicting belief truly had merit in supported tradition, through the commentary of individuals with intimate knowledge of it and (b) if there was really any cause for alarm that some one, some where, could be entered into a physical confrontation based on this fact. Quite possibly while communicating with one of belief in a radical nature.

I decided to take more information in and inevitably hit a wall in the conversation, where the person I was speaking with was no longer willing to communicate of it with me unless I converted. So I did. And it was a complete and total lie. The fact is when he realized to himself I had never become a true believer I was on my way out of of town and he did threaten me, out of his own embarrassment, with perversion if I was ever to return.

That fact, along with the random chance of finding a zeloutrous individual being fulfilled, made me believe that her question held merit. It should be noted here that I had known this woman on the eastern coast of north America, and had found this individual on the western coast.


I thought the prophecy that came true and woke you up to the necessity of asking The Question, was the your brother came in around New Year?

Even if your boon-granter's concern was about tension between people of different beliefs, it's common to the point of inevitability (as you mentioned) that you'd run into another zealous jerk of some well-established belief system. If "zealous" was the only qualifier for the type of person that your boon-granter was seeking, then of course they don't need to have met, or lived in your town, or otherwise possibly conspired to give you what you take as a sign from the Universe.

Instead, you can just blindfold yourself and throw a brick in the air and it's bound to hit an unpleasant person who qualifies...although they might only be unpleasant because you're hitting people with bricks... (Disclaimer: My metaphor is exaggerated, please do not do this thing.)

Quote
The entire process of first selection is worded, tasked, and dramatised through romanticism in an attempt to find some one who can understand that this is inherently ridiculous, but also, at the same time, provide reasonable effort of easement of a further study, of any kind this person feels necessary, or not necessary what so ever.

I simply wish to say that I can't give this to some one who does not fit the description of a "Female leader of a community, whom personal belief holds a single deity ahead of possibly many others". The fact remains that the deity presented is quite common in the pagan/polytheistic "faith"

 
I gather that this must be kept free of specifics as a sort of single-blind experiment that the first stage of the process may be esoterically validated by the possible ensuing events, then. Good luck!

(P.S., As Mad Zealot pointed out, it's "ado" and not "adieu" ... and whom isn't the formal version of who, it serves a grammatical purpose more evident in formal speech in which "who" must also be present; whom doesn't replace who.)
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It would be so much easier to understand you if you responded to individual posts with their replies rather than posting a giant wall of text that refers to things without quoting them.  We ask that people quote what they are responding to specifically to ease the flow of conversation in this manner, as well.

Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168624
Observe 1, 4, 5, and possibly 7?


You continue to ignore the fact that "paganism" is not a belief system or a religion; it is a religious category containing a number of broadly different religions.

Quote
I would like to reference here, as supported fact, High Priest of Ra, those whom would serve in temples such as the temple of horus, and so fourth (utilizing the Egyptian pantheon as a random reference). It is unthinkable to believe these individuals would forsake belief in the rest of there pantheon, though gave themselves to one. In this case, though, through much dedication. They would still believe in the others, and I would like to think would still serve the others of the pantheon in relation to there beliefs!


Well, here is something I can actually speak to directly, since you are actually talking about matters relevant to my religion.

A priest in Egypt was not typically chosen for devoutness or any particular attachment to the role.  There is evidence for priests who were, in fact, devout and very devoted to one or more gods; there is also evidence for priests who thought that the pay grade was fantastic and since the job was sometimes inherited, that having it would mean not only that they had a cushy gig but that one of their sons would inherit said cushy gig.  Dedication is entirely optional.

Further, a priest acting in the job of a priest was not in any way in a service role to the common people.  He was not there to help you solve your problems.  He was there to serve the gods of the temple in which he served.  Those priests who served part time (shifts of several months out of the year), who were in the majority, would work other literate-adult jobs the remainder of the year, of course - scribal, magical work, and so on - but there is no significant pastoral role in Egyptian priesthood, no caretaking-of-the-people, as you are looking for.

Which adds to ways that the question is not useful to your role: you are trying to suss out someone who might be useful for helping you, yes?  Not all priesthood roles are aimed in that direction.

Quote
On a side note I would like to point out that she was attempting to utilize sex magic, and I never cared to wonder why. The fact that she was angered was in reference to as soon as she realized I had never before cared to practice such ritual, I had just turned her down for sex on the context of being a male alone. I am pretty sure that would offend anyone, anywhere, of any gender to some extent!


Someone who is offended by being turned down for sex is not mature enough to get any.  The idea that people feel entitled to someone's attention - let alone intimate attention! - is really rather horrific.
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Quote from: Asking_A_Question;168624
This reply seems reminiscent of a chapter in a book, so I do apologies for lengthening my response and would ask that anyone who feels they may be aggravated by being put to read such a reply do not attempt it and then be mad at me for it. :(.

 
A Reminder:
Hi, Asking_A_Question,

This is to elaborate on what Darkhawk said to you:
Quote from: Darkhawk;168630
It would be so much easier to understand you if you responded to individual posts with their replies rather than posting a giant wall of text that refers to things without quoting them.  We ask that people quote what they are responding to specifically to ease the flow of conversation in this manner, as well.


It looks to me like you don't know how to quote multiple posts in your reply, but are trying to at least make reference to which post you're replying to, so that you can fit everything into one reply.

While there is a multiquote function, we prefer that people not use it except in unusual circumstances; we would much rather they made a separate reply to each post they're responding to. Unlike many other forums, we don't forbid 'doubleposting', making more than one reply in a row; in fact, we encourage it in cases like this. As Darkhawk says, the purpose of our rules and customs about quoting and how to do it is to ease the flow of conversation, so that it's immediately clear to any reader of the thread, whether they read five minutes after, or the next day, or three years from now, what person and post is being replied to.

More info on how to use the quote function effectively can be found in the Quoting Guidelines section of our rules, and in the Admin post on Quoting Tips.

Carillion, those links are for your perusal as well, as a reminder to trim your quotes to the part you're responding to, particularly when the quote is extremely long and your own reply is only a single line, as is the case above.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
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Faemon

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Quote from: Darkhawk;168630
Someone who is offended by being turned down for sex is not mature enough to get any.  The idea that people feel entitled to someone's attention - let alone intimate attention! - is really rather horrific.

 
Especially if they're moved to do so from their personal gnosis and use religio-politics to justify it. The world of spirit, and the practicalities of the physical world or society, these can be a challenge to line up, but "sex ritual to raise energy to protect oneself from incorporeal antagonist and whoever doesn't join in is unenlightened/cursed/contemptible" is...a misalignment that is skeevy up the wazoo and many charlatans of mysticism have used this to their advantage that it's become a very sickening cliche.

Granted, the original poster did say that they were teenagers at the time, and it would be very common for someone in that demographic (given particular other matters: economic class, family structure, standard education,) to get carried away by the notion of world-saving esoteric quests. That require sex rituals.


AAQuest, you may consider it humorous that you turned down someone who wanted to save the world with magic sex and she realized that you turned her down for sex, but when I think about it, it's actually immensely troubling what I can infer of this person's state of mind and expectations that brought you both into that situation.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:55:29 am by Faemon »
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Quote from: Faemon;168635
AAQuest, you may consider it humorous that you turned down someone who wanted to save the world with magic sex and she realized that you turned her down for sex, but when I think about it, it's actually immensely troubling what I can infer of this person's state of mind and expectations that brought you both into that situation.

 
Yes.

My own thought was that, if her (actual) primary motivation for wanting to do a sex-magic ritual was because she was worried, her first thought when the OP declined would be concern about how she would accomplish the ritual - offense that she'd been rejected simply as a sex partner would not override that, and might well not come up at all.

That her first concern was to be enraged by rejection suggests to me that her actual primary motivation was either a) because sex magic is cool and edgy and glamorous and an 'advanced' practice, and as a demonstration that she was irresistibly powerful, or b) she just wanted to have sex with the OP, and knew he'd turn her down (because she was in a presumably-monogamous relationship with someone who was also a friend of the OP) if she didn't provide some plausible reason why it was 'necessary'.

AAQuest, the idea that men never turn down sex (or that, on the rare occasions they do, it's a terrible insult to the person they're turning down) because they're in a constant state of consent is a pernicious and false idea. People of any gender get to choose whether to consent or decline, and anyone who is offended by this is, at best, someone with a very poor grasp of, and respect for, boundaries. When they go on to attempt to coerce that consent, they are attempting rape.

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Valeria Crowe

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Quote from: SunflowerP;168636
Yes.


AAQuest, the idea that men never turn down sex (or that, on the rare occasions they do, it's a terrible insult to the person they're turning down) because they're in a constant state of consent is a pernicious and false idea. People of any gender get to choose whether to consent or decline, and anyone who is offended by this is, at best, someone with a very poor grasp of, and respect for, boundaries. When they go on to attempt to coerce that consent, they are attempting rape.

Sunflower

 
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thats an idea that gets thrown around too damn much, even in supposedly liberal circles.
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Redfaery

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Quote from: SunflowerP;168636

AAQuest, the idea that men never turn down sex (or that, on the rare occasions they do, it's a terrible insult to the person they're turning down) because they're in a constant state of consent is a pernicious and false idea. People of any gender get to choose whether to consent or decline, and anyone who is offended by this is, at best, someone with a very poor grasp of, and respect for, boundaries. When they go on to attempt to coerce that consent, they are attempting rape.

Sunflower

 
I'd also point out that the whole "men can't say no" trope can be seen some in the way date-rape victims get shamed and blamed for their own assaults. Because the thought is that since men are just always ready to go, they can turn into raging penis monsters if a woman engages in consensual interactions with them but refuses sexual intercourse.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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