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Author Topic: Miscelaneous pagan groups  (Read 327 times)

Naunau

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Miscelaneous pagan groups
« on: November 14, 2017, 03:26:24 pm »
I am curious since I've never been able to participate in anything and I wouldn't know what to expect

If you've been in groups with people of pagan or pre-Christian inclinations, I imagine everybody follows different traditions. Then, what do people actually do in such groups? Or would such meetings only form with people of the same path with their specific needs? What's your experience with this? Is it a problem to be there if you don't belong?

I ask since I really have no idea how to find groups or other people and I'll probably be alone in anything I study. (I don't know if it's an odd want to have)

I once read that a common thing to do when having in mind some sort of historical trauma is to participate in the culture, but I don't really know how.

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Re: Miscellaneous pagan groups
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 04:43:31 pm »
I am curious since I've never been able to participate in anything and I wouldn't know what to expect
...
I once read that a common thing to do when having in mind some sort of historical trauma is to participate in the culture, but I don't really know how.

Have you tried approaching the deities which you recognize and asking them to direct you to groups which may be, if not an exact fit, at the very least a source of friendship and encouragement?
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Re: Miscellaneous pagan groups
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 04:53:52 pm »
Have you tried approaching the deities which you recognize and asking them to direct you to groups which may be, if not an exact fit, at the very least a source of friendship and encouragement?
Hmmm. I have a sort of idea about that. Nordic-centered people might be a fit, but here they are very usually colonized by nazis and such ilk (in a very notorious way), which makes it a bit complicated. I also discovered the name of an association centered around Basque beliefs, but it seems either gone defunct or has existed only somewhere in the Basque country as a grassroots group. So I'll keep looking.

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 06:43:28 pm »
If you've been in groups with people of pagan or pre-Christian inclinations, I imagine everybody follows different traditions. Then, what do people actually do in such groups? Or would such meetings only form with people of the same path with their specific needs? What's your experience with this? Is it a problem to be there if you don't belong?

This is something that's going to vary a lot, both by location and by kind of interest. In the US (and the UK), there's usually several different possible kinds of things:

Shorter public events that don't involve anything ritual or magical.
Sometimes these are at coffee shops, sometimes they're at inexpensive restaurants. In the UK they're often called pub moots and are at pubs. It's a place to show up, find some people who might share some interests, but without it being a big commitment or very deep.

Some have a topic or theme, or may have a short presentation by someone, others are purely social time. They're usually 2-3 hours, and they're usually pretty informal and casual. There may be a couple of people who run them, and a couple of regulars who are at most of them, but other people will come and go (so if you show up at one and don't meet anyone you're interested in talking to more, it can still be worth it to give it a try another time.)

These are also a thing you can start as a meet-up yourself if you want to give it a try: there's various bits of advice, but 'post info places people might see it in your immediate area, show up with an identifiable thing so people can find you, have a couple of conversation starters' works pretty well.

Public rituals
What it sounds like. Generally completely public rituals are designed for anyone who might show up, so expecting them to be amazingly deep and moving and exactly what you wanted is probably not a good assumption.

But they can be great places for seasonal or cyclical celebrations with other people, a chance to meet people you might want to do more things with, demonstrate to people who have smaller groups or invite-only practices that you're a reasonable person who is serious about the topic.

Low-commitment classes or workshops
The other way to meet people interested in specific things - a lot of esoteric/etc. stores or sometimes individual teachers have short class series or one-time workshops, and those can be a great way to meet people with similar interests.

When I say low-commitment, I mean that the cost is not very high (covering the rent of the space + photocopies, usually, not high fees for someone's time) and they're either one afternoon/evening/etc. or they're a short series (4-5 classes that run about 2 hours each is pretty common for a basic 'intro to witchcraft' type thing) Often, if you go through those and like it, there's a chance to do something longer and more involved. If you go to one or two, and it's not the right thing, then usually they just ask you let them know not to expect you.

In various places in the US, this is a common way for people interested in group work to check out a group, and the group to check out interested people, without making any commitments about future training (but covering some core skills and information that are handy no matter someone does next.) It's the model the group I trained in used, and I do something similar with potential students.

Again, I suggest giving it a try for more than one or two sessions if it's at all plausible: the first class in series like this has a lot of weird introductory stuff that often doesn't give you a great sense of the people involved, and the second or third class will give a lot more information. (Obviously, if things are totally not for you the first time, and you're sure of that, go do something else with your time.)

In the US/UK, these usually meet in some kind of public space: be wary of people who want you to go to a private location with someone you've never met. It's a good protection for everyone involved.

Actual groups
Much more complex discussion, so I'm mostly going to handwave here at the Connecting section on my Seeking site for useful commentary. The essay on Getting the most out of community events has some specific tips for particular kinds of events.
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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 02:22:13 am »
I ask since I really have no idea how to find groups or other people....

Have you checked out Pagan Federation International España? There's also WitchVox's 'Witches of the World' directory (not just for witches, but pagans of all varieties), but I see there aren't many listings on their page for Spain.

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 09:00:01 am »
I am curious since I've never been able to participate in anything and I wouldn't know what to expect

If you've been in groups with people of pagan or pre-Christian inclinations, I imagine everybody follows different traditions. Then, what do people actually do in such groups? Or would such meetings only form with people of the same path with their specific needs? What's your experience with this? Is it a problem to be there if you don't belong?

I ask since I really have no idea how to find groups or other people and I'll probably be alone in anything I study. (I don't know if it's an odd want to have)

I once read that a common thing to do when having in mind some sort of historical trauma is to participate in the culture, but I don't really know how.

Some of this will depend on what you want from a group.  If you want a group that will work with the same deities that you do, use the types of rituals/practices you do, and generally match up to your own preferences, then you will definitely want to spend some time searching out a good fit.

The other side though, is a mixed-tradition group.  This is what I am part of, both on a very local level (what might be considered my Coven...if we used such a term, which we don't), a larger local group (who gets together a couple times a year for big rituals or social gatherings), and online (through things like Facebook Groups).

Personally, I find it really lovely and fascinating.  Granted, I have a very open, fusion style practice.  I don't follow a set tradition, and my own practice has lots of influence from different places. 

My close local group consists of three other people, and we all have very distinct styles and practices.  We work well together, because we all enjoy sharing what we do and learning from each other.  When we do ritual or spell-work together, one of us typically takes the lead, and that particular ritual will be in the style of the leader.  We get to try different things, and work with different deities and it works for us.

In our larger, local group, it mostly works the same way, though we do more general work as opposed to working with specific deities/paths.  Our big annual ritual is typically led by one or two people, and while there is a theme, we often don't call in specific Gods (it is for Day of the Dead, so we will call on ancestors).  We have one lovely lady who casts circle, and we take volunteers for people to call the quarters:  in whatever fashion they like.  So our ritual may include many different influences and styles.

My online groups are mostly the same way, there are lots of people from many different paths.  We share what we do, and ask questions, but are very open, so there isn't any 'you should do it my way or you are wrong', which is something I really appreciate.  For me, that's the key point in making a mixed-path group work.  Everyone has to be open enough to let different perspectives exist in the same group.

Now, this doesn't mean you have to always mesh with every thing a group does.  I'm in a couple of women's groups, but I am much more male oriented (both in my self and in my practice, though I do work with female deities and ideals...they just aren't my main focus).  Some of the women in the groups are feminine exclusive:  they don't connect with any male deities, and all their work centers on ideas of womanhood (some around motherhood....and while I am a mother, that is not one of my areas that I work in).  While I enjoy reading their posts and am glad to support them or weigh in my own opinions, that is not a style that works for me.  I can still be in group with them, I just don't participate in some of the more intense feminine practices (or I adjust them to be more workable for my own inclinations).
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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 05:32:11 pm »
Wow, that's a lot to answer back to  :D

Shorter public events that don't involve anything ritual or magical.
Actual groups
Much more complex discussion, so I'm mostly going to handwave here at the Connecting section on my Seeking site for useful commentary. The essay on Getting the most out of community events has some specific tips for particular kinds of events.
I think that I'd be most interest in meetings with informal socialization and exchange, and study groups (of undefined focus really). I don't have very specific aspirations.

I don't think I'd be present at anything magic or with a ritual because I'm going to keep thinking that I'm bothering with my presence or get paranoid that I'm shouldn't be there (I have problems in my brain about this), plus I don't want to bother anyone with my lack of belief (not that I'd say much about this unless specifically asked). That said, if I ever was tolerated or wanted and I were comfy, then I dunno.

Have you checked out Pagan Federation International España? There's also WitchVox's 'Witches of the World' directory (not just for witches, but pagans of all varieties), but I see there aren't many listings on their page for Spain.
I vaguely remember browsing the first one and then I was a bit overwhelmed about whatever I wanted and I closed it down. I also remember it didn't seem updated in years. But there are a lot of links in there that I should check out.

The second one is however totally new to me! Thanks

Some of this will depend on what you want from a group.  If you want a group that will work with the same deities that you do, use the types of rituals/practices you do, and generally match up to your own preferences, then you will definitely want to spend some time searching out a good fit.
I'm interested in recon paths but beyond what I'm trying to study I don't really have one, so it's like yes and no at the same time.

The other side though, is a mixed-tradition group.  This is what I am part of, both on a very local level (what might be considered my Coven...if we used such a term, which we don't), a larger local group (who gets together a couple times a year for big rituals or social gatherings), and online (through things like Facebook Groups).

Personally, I find it really lovely and fascinating.  Granted, I have a very open, fusion style practice.  I don't follow a set tradition, and my own practice has lots of influence from different places. 

My close local group consists of three other people, and we all have very distinct styles and practices.  We work well together, because we all enjoy sharing what we do and learning from each other.  When we do ritual or spell-work together, one of us typically takes the lead, and that particular ritual will be in the style of the leader.  We get to try different things, and work with different deities and it works for us.

In our larger, local group, it mostly works the same way, though we do more general work as opposed to working with specific deities/paths.  Our big annual ritual is typically led by one or two people, and while there is a theme, we often don't call in specific Gods (it is for Day of the Dead, so we will call on ancestors).  We have one lovely lady who casts circle, and we take volunteers for people to call the quarters:  in whatever fashion they like.  So our ritual may include many different influences and styles.
That sounds nice to me. I think I'd enjoy simply sharing what I'm learning and doing.

From what I see (I started doing a very rough list of stuff) there's a strong Wiccan tendency here (like a default), which I don't do or really know about and has more of a tangential conection with stuff in my mind, but this doesn't bother me. Like, who knows what you can find in other people.

I've come to think that maybe I can't have what I want (I don't mean about groups and meeting others), but repressing interests because of that is worse.

Ok so by now I'm randomly ranting, I'm sorry, it's too late

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 09:14:09 am »
I don't think I'd be present at anything magic or with a ritual because I'm going to keep thinking that I'm bothering with my presence or get paranoid that I'm shouldn't be there (I have problems in my brain about this), plus I don't want to bother anyone with my lack of belief (not that I'd say much about this unless specifically asked). That said, if I ever was tolerated or wanted and I were comfy, then I dunno.

I can't speak to common practice in Spain (or for that matter, there's a lot of variety in groups in the US) but most completely public rituals are designed to include people like you - people who may not have specific beliefs, who want to try it out, who aren't sure if they're bothering anyone. They're meant to be fairly inclusive of people who are interested in that thing.

I'm talking here about ones where they say "There's a ritual here and at this time, focusing on X" and maybe a note or two about suggested donations, things to bring, etc. No 'we need to meet you first' or other filtering.

Even when there is filtering, for a openly advertised ritual it's more 'do you have a reasonable sense of what a Pagan ritual is likely to be about' and 'do I feel okay inviting you to an event at a private property'. There are still tons of people out there who show up at intro classes and rituals, and expect big Hollywood Effect magic, or want help with Weird Magical Events Happening To Them where mental health help might be more useful, or want Tremendous Cosmic Power, and don't get that that's not the way things go. (Or who think they can show up and get drunk and have lots of sex.)

In other words, "I'm not sure what I think about this or what I believe, but I'm interested in learning more." is one of the things open rituals really want and are designed for, so long as you're interested in whatever they're doing and willing to be basically polite about it.

Basically polite here means show up on time, follow instructions, don't talk about other stuff during the ritual (I had a public Samhain ritual spoiled for me once by two people who felt they had to discuss baseball for twenty minutes in whispers) and avoid actively getting the way of other people's ritual experience (hold questions to the end, if the ritual isn't doing anything for you, let other people have their experience, that kind of thing) unless there's something actively potentially dangerous (like you see a candle about to set something on fire that no one else has noticed.)   

If it's really not working for you, or you feel unwell, then there should be a process for excusing yourself quietly. (Sensible public ritual folks do a little discussion session before the ritual where they cover things like this, but it's also a great thing to ask "It's my first ritual, if I don't feel comfortable, is there a way I can excuse myself?" This is more an issue in ritual structures that cast a circle than those that don't.)

If there's a part of the ritual that asks you to do something or commit to something you're not sure about, just don't say that part, stay politely quiet, etc. People who are good at public rituals should design things so that isn't necessary (or so you know about it in advance) though.
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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 04:52:52 am »
I can't speak to common practice in Spain (or for that matter, there's a lot of variety in groups in the US) but most completely public rituals are designed to include people like you - people who may not have specific beliefs, who want to try it out, who aren't sure if they're bothering anyone. They're meant to be fairly inclusive of people who are interested in that thing.
I think I have found a hellenic, a heathen and an Irish organization which all seem to do this sometimes, although I don't know where and when right now.

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 12:52:16 pm »
I think I have found a hellenic, a heathen and an Irish organization which all seem to do this sometimes, although I don't know where and when right now.
Sounds like a good start! When I was looking for a group I went to different pagan pub moots and found a couple of groups after some time. I must say although I live in a densly populated area which also has a bunch of different pagan groups it really took years until I found the group I'm with now where I feel at home.

And that search wasn't without some frustration and negative group experiences - but the grief I had with some groups really paid off because I never gave up looking at yet another pub moot... ;)

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 02:51:07 pm »
Sounds like a good start! When I was looking for a group I went to different pagan pub moots and found a couple of groups after some time. I must say although I live in a densly populated area which also has a bunch of different pagan groups it really took years until I found the group I'm with now where I feel at home.

And that search wasn't without some frustration and negative group experiences - but the grief I had with some groups really paid off because I never gave up looking at yet another pub moot... ;)
I've written to them and I'm thinking about writing the Wiccan groups too for some reason, who knows.

To be honest I'm in the middle of a sort of phase like "I really need to meet people again and relate to people again" and I'm doing a bit of that through each facet of me so this actually sort of fits and makes sense in context, now that I think of it that way.

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 08:05:03 am »
I've written to them and I'm thinking about writing the Wiccan groups too for some reason, who knows.

To be honest I'm in the middle of a sort of phase like "I really need to meet people again and relate to people again" and I'm doing a bit of that through each facet of me so this actually sort of fits and makes sense in context, now that I think of it that way.
Cool! If some people behave strange or you feel you don't like them...just trust your instincts and move on to the next group...there are great people out there, but as in any other religion not everyone gets along with everyone.

If you're not sure how to interpret something...it really helps to ask questions...I did that a lot when I was checking out moots and groups and I also posted some concerns here on TC and chatted with other Cauldronites - that really helped because many people here have group experience and can give advice on what is "normal" behaviour and what's a warning sign. ;)

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 08:28:09 am »
Cool! If some people behave strange or you feel you don't like them...just trust your instincts and move on to the next group...there are great people out there, but as in any other religion not everyone gets along with everyone.
Well it's not like I have much of a choice, group-wise, to be honest.

The Hellenist group doesn't really have people here, the organizing folks live in Greece (duh). The Scandinavian org told me there are people here and gave me someone's email and now I feel super weird staring at the email not knowing what to say... (I have no idea about Icelandic-Scandinavian religion)

I suspect, between being outside the anglosphere (where this seems to be a bit more of a thing) and without surviving local traditions and with Catholicism down people's throats until very recently, that a general absence of people is logical
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 08:30:40 am by Naunau »

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 09:46:23 am »
Hi, if they have a pub moot or something it might still be interesting to check it out. Many pagan groups know other pagan groups in the area and can direct you to them if you tell them you want to check out different groups and paths.

 It often works like a snowball system In the beginning it looks like there are very few pagans, but then you meet this and that person and they tell you in this in that neighbor city is this and that group...

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Re: Miscelaneous pagan groups
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 10:27:12 am »
Hi, if they have a pub moot or something it might still be interesting to check it out. Many pagan groups know other pagan groups in the area and can direct you to them if you tell them you want to check out different groups and paths.

Seconding this - also, a lot of more serious or semi-closed groups don't necessarily advertise in public, but will dip into public events (pub moots, Pagan Pride events, occasional festival-type rituals) a few times a year to see about talking to new people.

Showing up and asking some thoughtful questions (again, basically anything that indicates you've done some reading and learning on your own, and you're not looking for Hollywood Magic or Immense Cosmic Power) will often get you pointed at these people too, but that might not happen just with an email contact.
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Allaya, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru, Tana

CauldronMUX Chat Staff
Chief MUX Wizard:
Darkhawk

Reserve Staff:
Aisling, Bob, Catja, Fausta, Sperran, Steve

Cauldron Council:
Everfool, Jubes, Kelly, Koi, Melamphoros, Ocelot, Phouka, Sashapablo, Star

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall