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Author Topic: Judaism and Brighid  (Read 1283 times)

Kaisa

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Judaism and Brighid
« on: August 06, 2013, 09:33:04 pm »
Recently, I've been more and more attracted to returning to (with more seriousness) the religion I was born and raised in - Judaism (I was raised very casually, but quite a few people in my extended family keep kosher, etc. and I still celebrate holidays with them and occasionally attend temple)

However, in the past years, I've developed great relationships in the online Pagan community, as well as (most importantly) with Brighid who I worship in an Irish context and I don't want to lose my connection with Her. If I were going back to Catholicism for example, I would be confident in worshipping her simply in a new context, but this is so radically different.

I am uneasy with broad eclecticism though not necessarily opposed to it entirely. Does anyone have similar experiences or advice?

RandallS

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 08:22:32 am »
Quote from: Kaisa;118204
Recently, I've been more and more attracted to returning to (with more seriousness) the religion I was born and raised in - Judaism (I was raised very casually, but quite a few people in my extended family keep kosher, etc. and I still celebrate holidays with them and occasionally attend temple)

However, in the past years, I've developed great relationships in the online Pagan community, as well as (most importantly) with Brighid who I worship in an Irish context and I don't want to lose my connection with Her.

I've met a good number of "Jewish Pagans" over the years. People were born and raised Jewish and who remain culturally Jewish (although generally not very strongly religiously Jewish) and still follow or at least honor Pagan deities.
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sailor

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 03:39:00 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;118250
I've met a good number of "Jewish Pagans" over the years. People were born and raised Jewish and who remain culturally Jewish (although generally not very strongly religiously Jewish) and still follow or at least honor Pagan deities.

 
If my friend can attend Chabad events and have her sons bar-mitzvahed there while also practicing Wicca of some sort ....

But back to the OP.  I've got one friend and her kids that do it, but I suspect she keeps the two religions seperate. To me that would be no mixing  of ritual.

RandallS

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 08:52:35 pm »
Quote from: sailor;118306
But back to the OP.  I've got one friend and her kids that do it, but I suspect she keeps the two religions seperate. To me that would be no mixing  of ritual.

I don't think I've known any Jewish Pagans who tried to actually mix Pagan religious rituals with Jewish religious rituals -- not even those who were "secular" Jews.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:53:06 pm by RandallS »
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Sophia C

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Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 03:15:10 am »
Quote from: RandallS;118334
I don't think I've known any Jewish Pagans who tried to actually mix Pagan religious rituals with Jewish religious rituals -- not even those who were "secular" Jews.

I met a few who did just this in Israel, at an Pagan Federation Israel event. There, it's no weirder to attend a Passover meal one day and a Wiccan circle another, than it would be for me to go to a family Christmas dinner one day and a Yule celebration the next. Attending actual temple/synagogue services is a different thing - but just as I know Christo-Pagans who go to church and do magic, I imagine there are people who similarly combine religious Judaism and Pagan paths. It seems theologically very difficult to me (for the same theological reasons that I abandoned the attempt to be a Christo-Pagan), but if people can deal with that, good for them.
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sailor

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 10:47:50 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;118372
I met a few who did just this in Israel, at an Pagan Federation Israel event. There, it's no weirder to attend a Passover meal one day and a Wiccan circle another, than it would be for me to go to a family Christmas dinner one day and a Yule celebration the next. Attending actual temple/synagogue services is a different thing - but just as I know Christo-Pagans who go to church and do magic, I imagine there are people who similarly combine religious Judaism and Pagan paths. It seems theologically very difficult to me (for the same theological reasons that I abandoned the attempt to be a Christo-Pagan), but if people can deal with that, good for them.

 
I was thinking more of doing the Wiccan circle at the same time as the Passover Sedar by adding Wiccan ritual stuff to the Sedar.

Sophia C

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 11:16:44 am »
Quote from: sailor;118395
I was thinking more of doing the Wiccan circle at the same time as the Passover Sedar by adding Wiccan ritual stuff to the Sedar.

You'll be solid until the anti-idols/anti-non-monotheism stuff!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 11:16:57 am by Naomi J »
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Gilbride

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2013, 12:47:22 pm »
Quote from: Kaisa;118204
However, in the past years, I've developed great relationships in the online Pagan community, as well as (most importantly) with Brighid who I worship in an Irish context and I don't want to lose my connection with Her.


I'd suggest looking into the figure of personified Wisdom or Sophia, who is mentioned a number of times in Proverbs and elsewhere. There's a persistent although minor tradition of identifying Brighid with Sophia or referring to Her as an Irish equivalent of Sophia.

Sophia C

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 01:37:22 pm »
Quote from: sailor;118395
I was thinking more of doing the Wiccan circle at the same time as the Passover Sedar by adding Wiccan ritual stuff to the Sedar.

 
Quote from: Gilbride;118402
I'd suggest looking into the figure of personified Wisdom or Sophia, who is mentioned a number of times in Proverbs and elsewhere. There's a persistent although minor tradition of identifying Brighid with Sophia or referring to Her as an Irish equivalent of Sophia.

 
Ooh. That is interesting. Do you have any references to hand, regarding where they've been linked? It is relevant to my interests.
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Gilbride

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 04:40:00 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;118404
Ooh. That is interesting. Do you have any references to hand, regarding where they've been linked? It is relevant to my interests.

 
The best source for info on Sophia (including her role in Jewish, Catholic and Orthodox contexts) is probably Sophia-Maria: A Holistic Vision of Creation, by Thomas Schipflinger:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1578630223

There are no references to Brighid in "Sophia-Maria," but several writers have linked the two. For instance, Appendix A of this book refers to Brighid as the "Northern Sophia":

http://books.google.com/books?id=qjl1H9GcetMC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=Sophia+Brigid&source=bl&ots=FJgBbAtSvj&sig=dPLBGP6mRS98VmOEqLPIcSzU8Z8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vv8DUvLMKvS64AOTyYH4Dw&ved=0CCoQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Sophia%20Brigid&f=false

Eleanor Merry, in "The Flaming Door," wrote this: "Bride, who is the soul of the ancient Mysteries - She is the Virgin-Sophia, the Virgin of Light whom the Bards once met among the stars."

And Alice Howell, in "The Dove in the Stone," wrote: "There in the Gaelic tongue the prayers and songs rose and fell, with a Christian overlay, to the unflagging devotion to Sophia, first called Brith (or Brid), then St. Brigid, the Mary of the Gael...."

Note that these are all recent Christian mystical interpretations, not ancient Gaelic lore. However, they could form the basis for a theology identifying Brighid with the Wisdom figure in Jewish scripture for anyone so inclined.

Sophia C

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Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 05:21:32 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;118412
The best source for info on Sophia (including her role in Jewish, Catholic and Orthodox contexts) is probably Sophia-Maria: A Holistic Vision of Creation, by Thomas Schipflinger:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1578630223

There are no references to Brighid in "Sophia-Maria," but several writers have linked the two. For instance, Appendix A of this book refers to Brighid as the "Northern Sophia":

http://books.google.com/books?id=qjl1H9GcetMC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=Sophia+Brigid&source=bl&ots=FJgBbAtSvj&sig=dPLBGP6mRS98VmOEqLPIcSzU8Z8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vv8DUvLMKvS64AOTyYH4Dw&ved=0CCoQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Sophia%20Brigid&f=false

Eleanor Merry, in "The Flaming Door," wrote this: "Bride, who is the soul of the ancient Mysteries - She is the Virgin-Sophia, the Virgin of Light whom the Bards once met among the stars."

And Alice Howell, in "The Dove in the Stone," wrote: "There in the Gaelic tongue the prayers and songs rose and fell, with a Christian overlay, to the unflagging devotion to Sophia, first called Brith (or Brid), then St. Brigid, the Mary of the Gael...."

Note that these are all recent Christian mystical interpretations, not ancient Gaelic lore. However, they could form the basis for a theology identifying Brighid with the Wisdom figure in Jewish scripture for anyone so inclined.

Thanks. I've read a lot on Sophia herself. Not seen her identified with Brighid before though. I wonder if it's a Celtic Christian development, if it's recent.
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RandallS

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 07:01:21 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;118372
I met a few who did just this in Israel, at an Pagan Federation Israel event. There, it's no weirder to attend a Passover meal one day and a Wiccan circle another, than it would be for me to go to a family Christmas dinner one day and a Yule celebration the next.

I was talking more about actually combining rituals -- err like Peter just said. (I should read more posts before replying.)
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Sage

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Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 07:08:55 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;118416
I was talking more about actually combining rituals -- err like Peter just said. (I should read more posts before replying.)

I have to admit, few things in this world give me a bigger full body shudder than imagining the invocation of the God and Goddess at a Seder.
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What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

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Sophia C

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Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2013, 02:58:22 am »
Quote from: Sage;118417
I have to admit, few things in this world give me a bigger full body shudder than imagining the invocation of the God and Goddess at a Seder.

I find it incredibly weird too - but you're talking to the hypocrite who raised a glass to the Kindred* at the Christmas dinner table last year. It's not the same - but it's not that far off either!

I can't imagine a way that Jewish rituals could be mixed with Pagan ones of any kind, just because of h monotheism. But, as I mentioned before, that doesn't stop the Christo-Pagans who invoke Jesus, Mary and Sophia in their circles when performing magic. And while I find that deeply odd too, it's a 'to each their own' thing.

*ADF term for the gods, land spirits and ancestors.
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RandallS

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Re: Judaism and Brighid
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2013, 07:54:54 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;118442
But, as I mentioned before, that doesn't stop the Christo-Pagans who invoke Jesus, Mary and Sophia in their circles when performing magic. And while I find that deeply odd too, it's a 'to each their own' thing.

I have less problem with invoking them as part of a magic ritual than I do as part of a Pagan ritual, but that's me.
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