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Author Topic: Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry  (Read 1351 times)

EclecticWheel

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Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry
« on: May 21, 2018, 01:24:51 pm »
As far as I understand some Jewish neo-pagans may retain some roots in Judaism and I was just wondering if anyone had any anecdotes or other insights into how they might deal with the psalms and other scriptures that prohibit idolatry.

I have a hard time with these verses when they come up in the daily office and other liturgies myself.  I don't really believe in enlivening statues myself, but I don't see any harm in the practice or belief either, and I don't like prohibitions on things that are harmless.  I could even see some benefit in idolatry as a way of relating to the sacred and ecouraging a mindset in which we try to relate to the world as a living thing.

Also, I'm not altogether sure my religious tradition hasn't bent the rules on this since in my parish we bow to images of the cross, have had services where we adore and kiss the cross, and have times of adoration of the sacrament.  It seems that some of these scriptures might prohibit even that even though we don't think of the images as embodying a living presence per se.  On the other hand, they could still be means of grace.  And the sacrament of the Body and Blood could easily be thought of as embodying a living presence for many Anglicans and definitely Catholics and Orthodox.

I am aware of different strains of tradition in the Hebrew Bible that are not purely monotheistic and possibly also traces of traditions in which Yahweh was adored through an idol, so I basically live with the ambiguity of that and realize that there may not be a way to reconcile all the views contained in scripture.  So sometimes I just read the Bible in the liturgies as containing lots of diverse traditions and voices and recognize that traditions are continuing to evolve and remain diverse, and that's that.  The Bible is just a snapshot of that, and it's a messy reality that you can accept or not.  And there are diverse views among Jews about what exactly constitutes idolatry.  Some don't view Christians or Hindus as idolaters for example while others do.

If you are a Jewish neo-pagan do you practice idolatry and what does that constitute for you?  Do you try to reconcile yourself with the scriptures on this or perhaps you find the scriptures and traditions on this irrelevant and don't bother with them at all?

I'd like to hear perspectives from non-Jews too if you have any anecdotes or insights on this topic or could help me out by pointing me to anything I could read on the topic.
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EclecticWheel

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Re: Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 12:37:19 am »
As far as I understand some Jewish neo-pagans may retain some roots in Judaism and I was just wondering if anyone had any anecdotes or other insights into how they might deal with the psalms and other scriptures that prohibit idolatry.

I have a hard time with these verses when they come up in the daily office and other liturgies myself.  I don't really believe in enlivening statues myself, but I don't see any harm in the practice or belief either, and I don't like prohibitions on things that are harmless.  I could even see some benefit in idolatry as a way of relating to the sacred and ecouraging a mindset in which we try to relate to the world as a living thing.

Also, I'm not altogether sure my religious tradition hasn't bent the rules on this since in my parish we bow to images of the cross, have had services where we adore and kiss the cross, and have times of adoration of the sacrament.  It seems that some of these scriptures might prohibit even that even though we don't think of the images as embodying a living presence per se.  On the other hand, they could still be means of grace.  And the sacrament of the Body and Blood could easily be thought of as embodying a living presence for many Anglicans and definitely Catholics and Orthodox.

I am aware of different strains of tradition in the Hebrew Bible that are not purely monotheistic and possibly also traces of traditions in which Yahweh was adored through an idol, so I basically live with the ambiguity of that and realize that there may not be a way to reconcile all the views contained in scripture.  So sometimes I just read the Bible in the liturgies as containing lots of diverse traditions and voices and recognize that traditions are continuing to evolve and remain diverse, and that's that.  The Bible is just a snapshot of that, and it's a messy reality that you can accept or not.  And there are diverse views among Jews about what exactly constitutes idolatry.  Some don't view Christians or Hindus as idolaters for example while others do.

If you are a Jewish neo-pagan do you practice idolatry and what does that constitute for you?  Do you try to reconcile yourself with the scriptures on this or perhaps you find the scriptures and traditions on this irrelevant and don't bother with them at all?

I'd like to hear perspectives from non-Jews too if you have any anecdotes or insights on this topic or could help me out by pointing me to anything I could read on the topic.

Not from a Judeo-pagan but I did find this threadwhich shows how widely thought on this can differ in Judaism.  Still researching and pondering this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/6m97i9/is_hinduism_polytheistic_idolatry_according_to/
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Re: Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2018, 03:17:59 am »
Not from a Judeo-pagan but I did find this threadwhich shows how widely thought on this can differ in Judaism.  Still researching and pondering this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/6m97i9/is_hinduism_polytheistic_idolatry_according_to/

Simply fascinating. As a Hindu, I'm rather glad I followed that link.
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Re: Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 11:21:47 am »
If you are a Jewish neo-pagan do you practice idolatry and what does that constitute for you?  Do you try to reconcile yourself with the scriptures on this or perhaps you find the scriptures and traditions on this irrelevant and don't bother with them at all?

It's complicated.

I do sort of have idols, although they're a fairly new addition to my practice, and some of them are fairly abstract--only Aphrodite and Mercury have actual statues, while Dionysos has a mask and a glass dildo in keeping with his ancient symbols. It did take me quite a while to really put together a shrine with idols, and even now I don't really worship at those idols--they're simply representations to give my Powers a presence in my shrine. I do think this is in large part because of my Jewish background, which left me without the inclination towards "idolatry" that people who grew up in another faith might have.

As far as the scriptures speaking against it go...that's not exactly completely irrelevant to me, but the deal with me and my Jewish Powers has for a while now been that what I need to do for my Jewishness on a religious level is keep the Sabbath. Everything else is just dressing. (On the other hand I haven't been keeping the Sabbath lately, which can't be good for my practice, but unfortunately my work makes it virtually impossible.)

That isn't to say that other neopagan Jews feel the same way, though, because we're all different.
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EclecticWheel

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Re: Jewish neo-pagans and idolatry
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 11:56:21 pm »
It's complicated.

I do sort of have idols, although they're a fairly new addition to my practice, and some of them are fairly abstract--only Aphrodite and Mercury have actual statues, while Dionysos has a mask and a glass dildo in keeping with his ancient symbols. It did take me quite a while to really put together a shrine with idols, and even now I don't really worship at those idols--they're simply representations to give my Powers a presence in my shrine. I do think this is in large part because of my Jewish background, which left me without the inclination towards "idolatry" that people who grew up in another faith might have.

As far as the scriptures speaking against it go...that's not exactly completely irrelevant to me, but the deal with me and my Jewish Powers has for a while now been that what I need to do for my Jewishness on a religious level is keep the Sabbath. Everything else is just dressing. (On the other hand I haven't been keeping the Sabbath lately, which can't be good for my practice, but unfortunately my work makes it virtually impossible.)

That isn't to say that other neopagan Jews feel the same way, though, because we're all different.

Is there any level at which you reinterpret the concept?  So far I am finding an evolution of boundaries regarding this topic and different opinions in Judaism.  The esoteric Christians seem to interpret this concept in a different sense than usual, too.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

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