Have You Ever Spoken With the Voice of Your God?

[Aster Breo]

Have you ever experienced a moment when your voice was used by one of your gods? Or your hands, for that matter? What were the circumstances, and what makes you believe deity was at work through you?

I've never experienced a full-out Drawing Down myself, but I have had several instances of feeling an imperative to say something specific -- always in response to someone's question or comment, and usually here on TC.

I've witnessed channeling a couple of times, including once when a seer allowed Brighid to speak through her directly to me.  It was an absolutely incredible experience and one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me.

[veggiewolf]

It happens to me somewhat regularly in chat.  I have awareness, but it's a very strong NEED to say what must be said.

I have never (that I know of, obviously!) lost control or spoken what I did not intend to say.  I HAVE been STOPPED from speaking in the past.

As far as how I know .. it feels different.  I feel surrounded, filled.  I KNOW it's different...

 
My experiences closely match what Aisling and Shad report: I am told to "say something here" and I do.  I have had the experience of words flowing out of me when they were for someone else and I had little control over what was said...but the situation was very specific and I agreed to do so ahead of time.

Afterward, I had one hell of a headache.

[Altair]

There have only been a couple incidences that I can recall where She's taken over the reins and spoken more directly through me. In one case, it was words of comfort to another of Her followers at the end of his life.  In the other case, a friend was making claims that My Lady had spoken to her in a way that was threatening and intimidating.  In both cases, I don't have good recall of the incidents but was told that both my voice and facial expressions were very different than usual.

I would like to witness this someday. NOT experience it; I'm way too much of a Vulcan self-control freak. But it would be fascinating to see it unfold.

[Altair]

I've witnessed channeling a couple of times, including once when a seer allowed Brighid to speak through her directly to me.  It was an absolutely incredible experience and one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me.

 
Responding to Aster Breo, but also to Veggiewolf, Heartshadow, and Gilbride: Thanks for sharing your experiences.

AB, the idea of conversing directly (almost) with a deity is mind-boggling. Your description of the effect it had on you is precisely why I mentioned to Aisling that I'd like to witness a "channeling a deity" event.

All your responses force me to examine why I responded so negatively to the (presumably) Christian stenographer going off in the House of Reps. As several of you have mentioned, because the venue was wholly inappropriate, yes. But also because I reject the world view of the kinds of Christians who feel "the Spririt" speaking through them? Because there have been so many (what strike me as) charlatans in the Christian communities that experience this? Probably a bit of all of it.

[Darkhawk]

All your responses force me to examine why I responded so negatively to the (presumably) Christian stenographer going off in the House of Reps. As several of you have mentioned, because the venue was wholly inappropriate, yes. But also because I reject the world view of the kinds of Christians who feel "the Spririt" speaking through them? Because there have been so many (what strike me as) charlatans in the Christian communities that experience this? Probably a bit of all of it.

 
Well, there's also the fact that it's reasonably common for, when a Christian feels a need to pontificate politically because their god told them so, it's because their god is a RAVING ASSHOLE.

[Jenett]

Well, there's also the fact that it's reasonably common for, when a Christian feels a need to pontificate politically because their god told them so, it's because their god is a RAVING ASSHOLE.

 
This.

But also, I advise (and have advised, and will certainly advise people in the future) that just because a God tells them to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't cross-check that. I say that about divination, I say that about meditation, and it applies even more so to 'god speaking through person'.

One of the biggest cues for me, when evaluating this kind of stuff is "Is what this person is saying benefiting them or their immediate reality?" And "Is this being done in a way that's respectful of the idea that even the Gods may not have the full perspective on this, or full ability to act on this setting" - i.e. that other people may have other experiences, other approaches, other priorities. That people have free will, in other words.

The stuff that passes my cross-checks generally involves "Hey, think about this" more than "Go forth and do this." and it generally *doesn't* benefit the person whose mouth is being used.

(Same is true in online settings, though obviously in those cases, it's a lot easier to obscure that it's a deity tapping someone on the shoulder to say something, and also a lot easier to cross-check, because we're in a format where that's sort of a given.)

[HeartShadow]

All your responses force me to examine why I responded so negatively to the (presumably) Christian stenographer going off in the House of Reps. As several of you have mentioned, because the venue was wholly inappropriate, yes. But also because I reject the world view of the kinds of Christians who feel "the Spririt" speaking through them? Because there have been so many (what strike me as) charlatans in the Christian communities that experience this? Probably a bit of all of it.

 
For me, the biggest question is, "does this have any chance of being effective in passing a useful message?"

When the answer is "fuck no" I don't believe it's worth doing and I doubt that there's a god involved.  Because WHY would a god go around pissing off the very people he's supposedly trying to convince of something?  NO ONE is going to be convinced by something like that unless they already agree with it!

The less effective it is, the more it looks to me like something ELSE.  Because .. effectiveness matters.

[Aster Breo]

AB, the idea of conversing directly (almost) with a deity is mind-boggling. Your description of the effect it had on you is precisely why I mentioned to Aisling that I'd like to witness a "channeling a deity" event.

Yes, if you ever have the opportunity, definitely take it!  If you have the fortune to experience someone really, truly channeling, it will literally change how to see the world.

In my case, it was a group seidh* ritual at a summer weekend regional gathering of a pagan organization, several years ago.  It was a VERY long ritual (3-4 hours), during which everyone present had the chance to ask a question of the seer.  Some people asked for advice about various problems, some asked to speak to loved ones who had died, a few of us asked to speak to deities.  I posted about the experience in detail right after it happened.  (I can repost that, if anyone is interested, since that was on an old version of the board that, I think, is now inaccessible.)

I watched that seer channel many different people who had died, as well as a few deities. It was truly incredible. If I hadn't been present, I wouldn't have believed it.  Just like I absolutely could not accept the idea of a medium who could really communicate with dead people until I experienced that for myself in a situation where the medium knew things she simply could not have known any other way.  Things I hadn't thought about in years or ever mentioned to anyone, etc.  And one thing that she predicted that was completely unlikely at the time, but did happen years later.

So, I completely understand your skepticism.  I still have trouble accepting certain things, even though I've experienced things myself that I would have thought impossible.

And I think critical thinking is ALWAYS appropriate and important. The kinds of questions that have been suggested in this thread make all sorts of sense to me.  Because I have no doubt that there are far more charlatans out there than there are people who truly do channel the gods.

But I've also had enough of my own experiences with being "nudged" to reply to a post in a certain way, f'ex, and witnessed enough "impossible" things that I can no longer just discount claims out of hand. It makes the world a much more complicated -- but infinitely more fascinating -- place.

 * (I'm well aware of the issues surrounding that particular type of seidh ritual, in case anyone is wondering, and happy to discuss them. But those issues did not make the experience any less powerful for me.)

[rocquelaire]

 I posted about the experience in detail right after it happened.  (I can repost that, if anyone is interested, since that was on an old version of the board that, I think, is now inaccessible.)

I'm very interested if its not too much trouble for you to repost.

[quarks]

(I can repost that, if anyone is interested, since that was on an old version of the board that, I think, is now inaccessible.)

 
I would also appreciate seeing the post.

[Aster Breo]

I would also appreciate seeing the post.

OK. The post below was originally posted on June 29, 2007 in the Cauldron Cill SIG.  (My user name at the time was Moon Ivy.)

I apologize for the length.

*********

My older daughter and I just got back from the Chesapeake Pagan Community Summer Gathering, where something happened to me that I want to share with you all.* Bear with me, it's kinda a long story.

I decided to go to this event -- my very first pagan gathering IRL -- because Alexei Kondratiev was scheduled to give a workshop on ogham.* It was very cool to meet Alexei and have the opportunity to learn from him, rather than just through the IMBAS email list.

My Cill shift started Thursday evening, which was the first night of the gathering.* I had packed a small LED candle, so I could have it lit for my shift even though I wasn't at home.* So, around sundown, I was in our cabin and I went to light my little fake candle, and the damned thing wouldn't light.* It would turn on, but go off as soon as I put it down.* Some problem with the contact to the battery, I think.

I was pretty bummed, but there wasn't much I could do about it, as open flames aren't allowed in the cabins.

The next morning, I was in the Dance Pavillion for the first workshop.* Another attendee was walking around the back side of the pavillion picking up trash -- one piece of which was a small, orange LED candle.* She just happened to set it down on the railing right in front of where I was standing.* I turned it on, and it worked perfectly.* I asked her if I could keep it, and she kind of looked at me funny, so I explained about it being my shift, and my candle not working.* Turns out her girlfriend is also a Brighid flamekeeper, so she totally understood.* I think her words were, "Hey, Brighid is big mojo.* I'm not messing with that.* Of course you can have the candle."* I kept it on for the entire weekend, the whole drive home, and it's still lit on my shelf right now.

So that was cool.* But then...

On the last night Diana Paxson led an oracular seidh ritual -- sort of the main event of the gathering.* Not being an Asatruar, I had no idea what to expect.* Earlier on the schedule, Diana did a class on oracles, so she had talked a bit about it and how it works.* In a nutshell, if I understand correctly, this is a ritual format that is talked about but not fully described in the Norse lore.* (Which should sound familiar to any CR type person.* ** )* So, Diana and her group developed/reconstructed/adapted an oracular tradition as closely as they thought they could.* They've been doing this for something like 15 years at various pagan festivals, so some of you might have experienced it.

It was a reasonably involved ritual, including pathworking to take us all on a journey to the gates of Hel, and then to help the seeress move deeper into trance and into Hel's domain, where she could then try to "see" for people and answer questions.

Well, at the beginning, Diana had explained how to ask questions, including how to ask to speak to a deity.* So, I decided to take the opportunity to try to talk to Brighid.

Throughout the 3 hours (!!) of the ritual, I watched the woman acting as seeress answer questions from people wanting to talk to relatives who had passed on, people who needed guidance on various life issues, and people who asked to speak to deities.* It was incredible.* I'm pretty cynical about psychics in general, although I recently had an experience with someone that really turned me around.* But there is no doubt in my mind that this seeress was channelling people's relatives.* She *became* them.* Their mannerisms, their detailed memories, their voices.* It was amazing.

Anyway, to get to the point, when it was my turn, I said I had a question to ask Brighid (there was a whole formulaic way of asking questions and communicating with her).* She said she couldn't reach Brighid where she was, but would travel to where she could.* A few minutes later, she described standing on a heath, with standing stones around her.* She said she saw Brighid there.* And then she *was* Brighid.* There was a transformation in her that was undeniable.* Her face *changed*, and She was *glowing*.

She asked me what my question was.* I asked, "Am I on the right path, or have I strayed off course?"* My question was about my ideas concerning Who Brighid is and whether She was worshipped under other names.* (Hmmmm, I think I've mentioned those ideas elseshere on TC...  )

She then asked me a series of questions, which, unfotunately, I can't completely remember.* By that time, I was already shaking and shivering and starting to cry for no apparent reason.* I think She asked me things like whether I felt I was being true to myself and my path, whether it was hurting anyone, whether I could speak of it with joy and confidence.* I answered them as honestly as I could.

Then She said, "Will you come to me?"* *I answered, yes, thinking She meant it metaphorically.* As in, will I reach out for Her, etc.* *But then She gestured me to approach her.* I went up to Her, and She/the seeress took my right hand.* There was a physical jolt when She touched me -- like an electric current, but not.* Her eyes were closed (as they were for the entire ritual, I think), and there were tears streaming down her face.* I don't remember everything we said, I think we talked quietly for quite a while.* But I do remember Her saying, "Where do I live?* Where do I live?"

She asked me if I had other questions for Her.* Stupid me, everything I should have asked flew straight out of my head.* I was shaking and shivering and buzzing (I don't know how else to describe the sensation) and almost sobbing.*

(I'm crying again as I write this, and the sensations come back to my memory.)

I asked, "Have I really found You?"

With Her other hand, She began to stroke my neck and chest, eyes still closed.* And then She said, "I can play these strings like a harp."* *Then She touched the center of my chest, and said, "I live here.* I live here."

She took my hand that she had been holding so tightly, and kissed the back of it, then used my hand to wide away Her tears.* Then She said, "I have to let her go now.* It's too much."* I think She meant that She had to let the seeress have her body back.* And She let go of my hand, and was gone.* I was standing so close I could *see* the transformation take place, and then it was the human seeress again.

I cried quietly for the rest of the ritual.

When it was over, I went back to my cabin (where my little candle was still burning*  ), and wrote a note to Brighid.* I thanked Her for coming to me, and asked Her specifically to show me the way to reach Her directly myself.* I took the note down to the bonfire and threw it in.

The next morning, yesterday morning -- but it seems a long time ago -- I was standing on the porch of our cabin finishing the little morning ritual I do (I had to pour some water out, so I thought I'd pour it on the sunflower plant).* While I was standing there, I saw the woman, L, who had been the seeress the night before walk over and sit down in the camp of the folks who were set up in front of our cabin, who she apparently knows from other events.* While I was watching her, this incredibly beautiful butterfly flew around my head several times, then landed on my right foot.* It sat there for a while opening and closing its wings so I could see them clearly.* They were black, with blue edges on the top sides, and orange spots on the bottom sides.* It made me think of water and fire -- and Brighid.* Then it flew to my other foot and sat there for a while.

When it left me, I looked up and realized several people had gathered in my neighbors' camp (it was sort of a hospitality hot spot, so lots of people liked to come and visit), so I went over and sat down across the table from L.* She was just saying how she could remember some of the images she had from the ritual, but not all.* Then she said something about the person who had asked for Brighid.* (Mind, I had never met this woman before the night before, and she had her eyes closed.* I'm sure she didn't know who I was.)* I told her that had been me.* She was surprised, but then went on to say that she couldn't remember anything about it, except for the presence of incredible power.* She asked me if the answers were satisfactory, and I assured her they were.

A few minutes later, completely out of the blue, she asked if I would be interested in learning the oracle technique myself.* I told her I had no experience with Asatru or with the Norse pantheon, and she said I could easily learn what I needed to know, and that it's a technique that is transferable and adaptable.* Apparently, she lives about half an hour away from me, and is involved with an Asatru community locally.* And she is giving an invitation-only class on the seidh technique, starting next week.

I can't help but think that this is the answer Brighid sent me, in response to my request.* So, I'm going to do it, even thought it's kinda scary.

And that's my story.

Now I have to learn some basics about Asatru and Norse mythology in the next week.

I'm sorry this post is so long.* I wanted to try to convey what a powerful experience this was for me.* I'm sorry I'm not poetically gifted.

[Gilbride]

OK. The post below was originally posted on June 29, 2007 in the Cauldron Cill SIG.  (My user name at the time was Moon Ivy.)

 
Truly an amazing story. Should it be in the devotional?

[Aisling]

I would like to witness this someday. NOT experience it; I'm way too much of a Vulcan self-control freak. But it would be fascinating to see it unfold.

 
(emphasis mine)

So I am, actually, which is why I've only consented twice to be Her Voice (TM), rather than simply passing the message.  I have a love/hate relationship with the aftereffects... a sort of divine ecstatic hangover combined with a certain amount of seething and self-directed anger that I handed over control.

[outlaw393]

I figured the Cauldron is a good place to ask: Have you ever experienced a moment when your voice was used by one of your gods? Or your hands, for that matter? What were the circumstances, and what makes you believe deity was at work through you?

I've channeled gods, angels, demons, and spirits through automatic writing. So...yes.

[RandallS]

If you're going to be rude or hostile, don't bother responding to this message.

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