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Author Topic: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?  (Read 7098 times)

Nyktipolos

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 05:13:56 pm »
Quote from: Ravaris;107442
As opposed to someone who tries to summon the elder gods? I understand that there are people who are drawn to magic but if this is the definition of low magic then high magic must be very dangerous.


Why must the opposite be more dangerous? Personally I think in the first place such a dichotomy is ridiculous because I can just as likely do "low magic" as "high magic" several days a week. But I don't think that's actually what Darkhawk is saying here.

Quote
I mean can you imagine what would happen if we divided prayer into low and high who's prayers are higher then others and why would such a thing even come about. Magic is magic isn't it?


I mean ... I don't know the exact reasoning behind the labels of high vs. low, but I don't think they came about because someone thought a Ceremonialist has his prayers reach higher than a kitchen witch's.
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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 05:25:03 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;107444
someone thought a Ceremonialist has his prayers reach higher than a kitchen witch's.


... and his intellect was higher.
... and his status was higher (but that's been covered)
... and the room at the top of his lonely wizard's tower is, quite literally, higher off the ground.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

FollowerofOdin

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 05:30:59 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;107446
... and his intellect was higher.
... and his status was higher (but that's been covered)
... and the room at the top of his lonely wizard's tower is, quite literally, higher off the ground.

 
I like the idea of a wizard in a high tower. Of course I like the idea of a woman in her cottage brewing things in her cauldron. That's what really enchanted me the most about witches and later on drew me to Kitchen witchery.

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 05:32:00 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;107410
"You can practice whatever you like so long as you do what I say."

 
Yeah, but I have to keep the peace. I don't like it, but what can I do.

MadZealot

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 05:46:19 pm »
Quote from: FollowerofOdin;107448
Yeah, but I have to keep the peace. I don't like it, but what can I do.

 
Build a tower.  :D:
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

Ravaris

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 06:02:34 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;107444
Why must the opposite be more dangerous? Personally I think in the first place such a dichotomy is ridiculous because I can just as likely do "low magic" as "high magic" several days a week. But I don't think that's actually what Darkhawk is saying here.

 
Sorry that was really just tong in cheek, I hope I didn't offend you.

Quote from: FollowerofOdin
Yeah, but I have to keep the peace. I don't like it, but what can I do.


I know that feel, I hope you find something that makes you happy as well. Keep searching I'm sure there's a way to compromise.

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 06:55:10 pm »
Quote from: Ravaris;107442
As opposed to someone who tries to summon the elder gods?


Whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?  And what the everliving heck is an "elder god"?

Quote
I understand that there are people who are drawn to magic but if this is the definition of low magic then high magic must be very dangerous.


Where are you getting "dangerous" out of that?

You didn't ask for a definition of low magic, in any case, you asked for a definition of kitchen witch.
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 06:56:07 pm »
Quote from: FollowerofOdin;107448
Yeah, but I have to keep the peace.

 
With some totally random blogger?  Easiest way to do that is to just not read the blog.
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

MadZealot

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 07:11:08 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;107470
With some totally random blogger?  Easiest way to do that is to just not read the blog.

 
I believe the peace must be kept with Follower's Mom, who seems ill inclined against pagan goddess statuettes.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

Darkhawk

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 07:14:53 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;107472
I believe the peace must be kept with Follower's Mom, who seems ill inclined against pagan goddess statuettes.

 
Okay, that makes more sense.  Clearly I'm not tracking multiple threads well.
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 07:17:36 pm »
Quote from: Ravaris;107442
As opposed to someone who tries to summon the elder gods? I understand that there are people who are drawn to magic but if this is the definition of low magic then high magic must be very dangerous.


Different spectrum.

Low magic can be extremely dangerous, if it's done badly. Food poisoning, allergic reactions to herbs, things like that, are nothing to trifle with.

The definitions I've always used for low magic and for high magic are about how you control the flow of magic. Low magic - which, incidentally, by this definition, includes most forms of Wiccan magic and religious witchcraft, not just kitchen magic - involves running the magic through your own body, shaping it and directing it, and then letting it go.

High magic, in counterpart, involves working with the magic at arm's length, using highly specialised tools and methods. It can be extremely effective, but it generally requires a combination of tools and training that are not intuitive for most people. You have to work at it harder.

You can think of it like the difference between cleaning out a scraped knee and sticking a bandage on it and doing surgery. Both are *extremely* useful in certain circumstances. And both can be *absolutely the wrong thing* in certain circumstances. (And also both possibly lethal: if that knee gets an infection, and you don't notice it, if the surgeon cuts something they didn't mean to.)
 
The trick with high magic - and with ritual magic in general - is that it is, in general, easier to mess up things you're not directly interacting with. If you are doing high magic and you summon someone (or something) you didn't realise you were, that has consequences. (Potentially very poor ones for you). If you do not leave your ritual energies tidy and controlled, you may feel their impact for a long time to come.

With low magic, because you're running it so intimately through your body, it's possible to mess things up, but you're more likely to notice it a bit sooner, and perhaps not *keep* digging a very problematic hole.

This, incidentally, is one of the reasons that at least some of the more formally trained folks I know are a bit cautious of kitchen witches who go one about "I just do things intuitively!"

First, because there are things where additional learning and understanding is an important safety thing. (Chamomile is a perfectly natural herb, and safe for many people. IF you feed it to me, I will be sneezing my head off, because I am allergic to ragweed, and there's cross-reaction to Chamomile, which is a related family.)

And second, because kitchen witchery can involve directly raising and focusing and directing energy. Many people can do some parts of this intuitively, but usually not all the different pieces come as easily. That means that if someone hasn't spent some time smoothing out their technique, they can leave untidy strands of energy associated with them. For people with other kinds of training, this can be somewhere between mildly uncomfortable and "Yeah, sorry, I don't ever want to be in your house."

It's not that it's *bad*, in any moral or ethical sense. But it's like someone, oh, choosing to burn a lot of incense in their house, or have pets, if you're allergic. It's also not necessarily comfortable to be around for everyone.

(The time it's *annoying* is when people dig themselves into a large hole and then demand help getting out of it. Which does happen from time to time, and usually in the direction of begging the people with training they've disdained to give their time and energy on demand. Which does make the people being asked a little cranky sometimes, after it's happened a few times.)
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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 07:18:29 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;107473
Okay, that makes more sense.  Clearly I'm not tracking multiple threads well.

 
Happens.  I almost asked the same question you did.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

Ravaris

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 10:55:33 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;107474
Different spectrum.

Low magic can be extremely dangerous, if it's done badly. Food poisoning, allergic reactions to herbs, things like that, are nothing to trifle with...

I see that I was misunderstanding people meant when they described things. And I was being a little tong in cheek about it because the form of discrimination seemed so trivial. I understand what is being talked about now that you've explained it. Thank you very much and sorry for any misunderstandings.

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Whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut? And what the everliving heck is an "elder god"?


I was sort of being mean; I was referring to the Cthulhu myths.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:58:46 pm by Ravaris »

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 11:34:36 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;107414
Someone whose witchcraft is oriented around matters of home and household, often including stuff like herbal remedies, spellwork through the medium of cooking, basic protections, and the like.

 
I cannot even begin to express how relieved, refreshed, and just plain happy I am, to see a definition of 'kitchen witch' that explicitly isn't 'someone who does magic using cooking'.

I would go farther, though, and say that a kitchen witch could also be one whose witchcraft uses only or mainly things that are common - or at any rate would not be out of place - in an ordinary kitchen/home/household, or that can be readily found nearby.

I don't look down on witches who do most of their magic in context of cooking, but I confess I do have some disdain for the trend, in recent years, to narrow the definition down to 'cooking'.  Time was, and not so long ago either, that a lot more than just cooking was done in kitchens.  (And it occurs to me that modern urban habitats, and modern urban habits, may be the root cause of the narrowing - that's probably a thread in itself.)

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Re: Why do some Wiccans and witches look down on Kitchen Witches?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 11:41:01 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;107503
I cannot even begin to express how relieved, refreshed, and just plain happy I am, to see a definition of 'kitchen witch' that explicitly isn't 'someone who does magic using cooking'.


Well, isn't just.

(I'm actually more familiar with "herbal remedies", ever since I cured an UTI with the spice rack.)

Quote
I don't look down on witches who do most of their magic in context of cooking, but I confess I do have some disdain for the trend, in recent years, to narrow the definition down to 'cooking'.  Time was, and not so long ago either, that a lot more than just cooking was done in kitchens.  (And it occurs to me that modern urban habitats, and modern urban habits, may be the root cause of the narrowing - that's probably a thread in itself.)

 
Yeah, I was commenting earlier today that I'm setting myself up to be a proper ancient housewife in the next year or so, since my housemate may have scored me a loom.  Weaving magic, mmmmmm....
as the water grinds the stone
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