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Author Topic: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)  (Read 35572 times)

GoldenSiren

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #150 on: June 28, 2012, 06:44:23 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;61946
Also, for those playing along at home!
Left-hand/right-hand terminology also has roots in traditional Kabbalah--the tree of the sefirot is often presented as a sort of universal human body, Adam Kadmon, and on that presentation of the diagram, there are two "arms"--the left, Binah-Gevurah-Hod, and the right, Hokhmah-Chesed-Netzach.  Gevurah, or Din, is called the "left hand" in some traditions, and relates to the capacity/idea not just of drawing borders or exerting power, but of force and wrath, whereas Chesed, the "right hand," is about mercy and welcome and openness.  Left is coded as dark, and right as light; left is hidden, right is visible.  While they're both part of the divine and of the structure of the world, the "left hand" goes to those darker places of burning power, and the "right hand" is much more cuddly.
Remember, also, that a lot of these traditions come from a time and (many) locations where for basic purposes, the left hand was not just ritually unclean--you don't use it to eat, or to greet, or any of it--but physically, because it was the hand used to wipe after using the loo, so the right would stay clean to be used for other things, and this was very important in places that did not have fancy sinks and soaps and all to get clean.  So it's often not about "left" as inherently evil, but as inherently profane and literally dirty.  They're concerns that are of less weight now with modern sanitation.

Thanks everyone for elaborating for me :) I never even heard of the whole thing, but it matches up with common "Left hand" issues that go around. Pretty much, in many cultures/religions, using the left hand = BAAAAAD. Or at the very least dirty and frowned upon. The irritating part for me is that sometimes that drifts over to left handed people. In fact, I've read a lot of things that considered us "abominations", "freaks of nature", or my favorite "that we CHOSE to be left handed and walk the evil path that will only end in ruin. And we also have an agenda to bring everyone down with us." --cues spooky music-- MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! . . . Sorry to disappoint. I've never felt the urge ;)

. . . and a surprising amount of people want to make it a law that bans left handers from getting married. Ever. Especially if both people are left handed. I'm completely serious. There are articles.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 06:45:42 pm by GoldenSiren »
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #151 on: June 28, 2012, 07:41:48 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;61946
Also, for those playing along at home!
Left-hand/right-hand terminology also has roots in traditional Kabbalah--the tree of the sefirot is often presented as a sort of universal human body, Adam Kadmon, and on that presentation of the diagram, there are two "arms"--the left, Binah-Gevurah-Hod, and the right, Hokhmah-Chesed-Netzach.  Gevurah, or Din, is called the "left hand" in some traditions, and relates to the capacity/idea not just of drawing borders or exerting power, but of force and wrath, whereas Chesed, the "right hand," is about mercy and welcome and openness.  Left is coded as dark, and right as light; left is hidden, right is visible.  While they're both part of the divine and of the structure of the world, the "left hand" goes to those darker places of burning power, and the "right hand" is much more cuddly.
Remember, also, that a lot of these traditions come from a time and (many) locations where for basic purposes, the left hand was not just ritually unclean--you don't use it to eat, or to greet, or any of it--but physically, because it was the hand used to wipe after using the loo, so the right would stay clean to be used for other things, and this was very important in places that did not have fancy sinks and soaps and all to get clean.  So it's often not about "left" as inherently evil, but as inherently profane and literally dirty.  They're concerns that are of less weight now with modern sanitation.

 
Interesting.  I had heard of the Kabbalah or its variant spellings using left, right and central body to identify the tree but never as left & right hand.  So that is something i'll have to read up on.  

And people wonder why reading is such a high importance along with knowledge.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #152 on: June 28, 2012, 07:46:02 pm »
Quote from: GoldenSiren;61970
Thanks everyone for elaborating for me :) I never even heard of the whole thing, but it matches up with common "Left hand" issues that go around. Pretty much, in many cultures/religions, using the left hand = BAAAAAD. Or at the very least dirty and frowned upon. The irritating part for me is that sometimes that drifts over to left handed people. In fact, I've read a lot of things that considered us "abominations", "freaks of nature", or my favorite "that we CHOSE to be left handed and walk the evil path that will only end in ruin. And we also have an agenda to bring everyone down with us." --cues spooky music-- MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! . . . Sorry to disappoint. I've never felt the urge ;)

. . . and a surprising amount of people want to make it a law that bans left handers from getting married. Ever. Especially if both people are left handed. I'm completely serious. There are articles.

 
The left hand being used for wiping of ones body is a big thing in many parts of the middle east.  Didn't really encounter it in Europe or Asia though.

I used to be more left handed than right but early on in school it was practice to swat us on our hands with a ruler or worse when we used the left.  Even tying it behind us or incapasitating it so we could not use it and were forced to use the right hand.  I tried over the years to unlearn that conditioning but it was enforced so drastically I hardly use it at all today.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #153 on: June 29, 2012, 02:46:43 am »
Quote from: GoldenSiren;61970


. . . and a surprising amount of people want to make it a law that bans left handers from getting married. Ever. Especially if both people are left handed. I'm completely serious. There are articles.

 
Links?  Citations, even?

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

mandrina

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #154 on: June 29, 2012, 04:50:35 am »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;62046
Links?  Citations, even?

Absent


http://lezgetreal.com/2012/03/nh-state-rep-defends-gay-marriage-with-a-laugh/
would this be it?  with idiots in the comments?
Katrina

"I have a bad feeling about this."  Every good guy in the Star Wars saga, and an occasional bad guy as well.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #155 on: June 29, 2012, 11:09:31 am »
Quote from: mandrina;62061
http://lezgetreal.com/2012/03/nh-state-rep-defends-gay-marriage-with-a-laugh/
would this be it?  with idiots in the comments?

 
Ah.  I thought it was meant to be serious.  Thank you.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

GoldenSiren

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #156 on: June 29, 2012, 05:29:37 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;62098
Ah.  I thought it was meant to be serious.  Thank you.

Absent

 
I didn't elaborate, sorry. It FIRST started out as part of a debate on rights of gay marriage, an offhand commentary meant for people to see the ridiculousness of the whole thing, but there are those who took it seriously, and believe it.

Here's an example:
http://www.stephenparrish.com/2008/01/modest-proposal.html
Déjà Moo
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Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #157 on: June 29, 2012, 05:39:50 pm »
Quote from: GoldenSiren;62129

Here's an example:
http://www.stephenparrish.com/2008/01/modest-proposal.html

 
This is clearly meant to be humourous as well.  Read some of the other entries.

I really don't think there is any organized (or even disorganized :)) persecution of the left-handed going on.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

mandrina

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #158 on: June 29, 2012, 05:55:36 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;62132
This is clearly meant to be humourous as well.  Read some of the other entries.

I really don't think there is any organized (or even disorganized :)) persecution of the left-handed going on.

Absent

 
Other than maybe really oldfashioned teachers trying to get them to write righthanded.  And even then, I think it's pretty much finally died out.  In the first world at least.
Katrina

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GoldenSiren

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #159 on: June 29, 2012, 06:57:55 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;62135
Other than maybe really oldfashioned teachers trying to get them to write righthanded.  And even then, I think it's pretty much finally died out.  In the first world at least.

 
--shrugs-- alright. It was interesting anyways. I never thought anything of my left-handedness before finding things like that, and it was an interesting concept.
Déjà Moo
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The feeling that you\'ve already heard this bull before :lub:

GoldenSiren

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #160 on: June 29, 2012, 07:26:57 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;62135
. . .


I just realized how much this thread drifted :p okay, back on topic.

So, we concluded that trying to summon the Devil or any demons isn't a good idea, for a variety of reasons. Now, what would be some good alternatives?
Déjà Moo
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Aryel32

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #161 on: June 29, 2012, 07:58:22 pm »
Quote from: xmoonlitreveriex;61842
I don't know the details, but you could peruse this blog for more information. Its the only ones I remember off the top of my head that mentions working with both Hekate and Lu:
The Flaming Thyrsos(Note that they refer to Lu as Prometheus, and it is only my UPG that links the two. Make of it what you will)
There was another blog called Blue Druid, but it seems to have been deleted =[


Dude, you've got me so distracted with looking this up I completely lost track of the rest of the thread. If you find any other blogs like these, let me know. :D

Aryel32

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #162 on: June 29, 2012, 08:00:22 pm »
Quote from: GoldenSiren;62148
So, we concluded that trying to summon the Devil or any demons isn't a good idea, for a variety of reasons. Now, what would be some good alternatives?


Alternatives to summoning the devil/etc?

Here's an alternative, not summoning the devil/etc :p

GoldenSiren

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #163 on: June 29, 2012, 08:03:41 pm »
Quote from: Aryel32;62168
Dude, you've got me so distracted with looking this up I completely lost track of the rest of the thread. If you find any other blogs like these, let me know. :D

 
Seconded.
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xmoonlitreveriex

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Re: Raising the Devil and or demons for money (books and methods)
« Reply #164 on: June 29, 2012, 08:08:26 pm »
Quote from: Aryel32;62168
Dude, you've got me so distracted with looking this up I completely lost track of the rest of the thread. If you find any other blogs like these, let me know. :D

 
Will do!

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