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Author Topic: quicky blessing type gesture?  (Read 3228 times)

spoOk

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quicky blessing type gesture?
« on: May 09, 2012, 12:24:52 am »
I was thinking about how Christians cross themselves for a quick protection in various situations and it made me wonder:
is there a similar simple phrase and or gesture related to hoodoo,folk magic or even hekate (personal preference) that anyone knows of that would serve the same purpose?
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

Wickerman

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 12:37:46 am »
Quote from: spoOk;53601
I was thinking about how Christians cross themselves for a quick protection in various situations and it made me wonder:
is there a similar simple phrase and or gesture related to hoodoo,folk magic or even hekate (personal preference) that anyone knows of that would serve the same purpose?

 
I'm Asatru, I touch my hammer and whisper Odin, just my own little thing I came up with. May not make any difference at all, but it makes me feel better. If you wear a symbol, something like that might work for you.
"Don\'t take life too seriously, or you\'ll never get out of it alive." (Bugs Bunny)

Agonistes

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 01:58:03 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;53601
I was thinking about how Christians cross themselves for a quick protection in various situations and it made me wonder:
is there a similar simple phrase and or gesture related to hoodoo,folk magic or even hekate (personal preference) that anyone knows of that would serve the same purpose?

 
You could do what I do, use the spirit invoking pentagram gesture and draw it with your finger. Start at your head, then go downwards towards your left leg, then complete the pentagram as such.

Of course, it is also debated if that's the correct invoking sign. It's confused throughout occultism if it's Earth or Spirit. At any rate, I enjoy starting with the head.

Hope I helped, stin iyia sou.

spoOk

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 02:09:27 pm »
Quote from: Agonistes;53685
You could do what I do, use the spirit invoking pentagram gesture and draw it with your finger. Start at your head, then go downwards towards your left leg, then complete the pentagram as such.

Of course, it is also debated if that's the correct invoking sign. It's confused throughout occultism if it's Earth or Spirit. At any rate, I enjoy starting with the head.

Hope I helped, stin iyia sou.

 
suppose a pentagram would be the easiest wouldn't it? lol
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monsnoleedra

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 02:18:25 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;53687
suppose a pentagram would be the easiest wouldn't it? lol


Just my own perspective but why would you draw a pentagram for Hekate / Hecate when it means nothing to her?  Myself I draw the cross-roads or even imagine or physically create the Y shaped cross roads to place me in alignment with her.

If that doesn't feel right then I imagine the twin crossed torches and ask her to light my way and guide me through the difficulty that lays before me.

With Artemis I tend to see the long torch of Artemis Lucifera (Diana Lucifera is better known but Artemis also held that as part of her Chthonic role) or a blazzing arrow launched across the sky.

Agonistes

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2012, 08:19:32 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;53691
Just my own perspective but why would you draw a pentagram for Hekate / Hecate when it means nothing to her?  Myself I draw the cross-roads or even imagine or physically create the Y shaped cross roads to place me in alignment with her.

If that doesn't feel right then I imagine the twin crossed torches and ask her to light my way and guide me through the difficulty that lays before me.

With Artemis I tend to see the long torch of Artemis Lucifera (Diana Lucifera is better known but Artemis also held that as part of her Chthonic role) or a blazzing arrow launched across the sky.


The OP didn't ask specifically for a Hekate gesture. I also stated nothing about it being a Hekate protection gesture, so I generalized based on his first sentence being similar to the Christian/Catholic "Nel nome del padre," cross gesture.

monsnoleedra

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2012, 08:56:58 pm »
Quote from: Agonistes;53772
The OP didn't ask specifically for a Hekate gesture. I also stated nothing about it being a Hekate protection gesture, so I generalized based on his first sentence being similar to the Christian/Catholic "Nel nome del padre," cross gesture.


SpoOk wrote: or even hekate (personal preference) that anyone knows of that would serve the same purpose?

That was why I mentioned Hecate / Hekate specifically.

Agonistes

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2012, 09:53:25 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;53780
SpoOk wrote: or even hekate (personal preference) that anyone knows of that would serve the same purpose?

That was why I mentioned Hecate / Hekate specifically.


Yes, but you rebuked my claim as if I was saying the pentagram was for Hekate. And "or even," alludes to, "if you know, tell me." I don't know a gesture used for Hekate, and therefore I gave a generic.

You questioned," Just my own perspective but why would you draw a pentagram for Hekate / Hecate when it means nothing to her?"

I didn't say it had anything to do with Hekate, and even though the OP asked, "or even Hekate," that only alludes to wanting to know, and not the information I offered which was just suggesting based on the concept the OP.

Anyways, I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but I do have new information:

In a book I have it mentions just closing your eyes and either saying or thinking the names of the Olympians, alas Hekate is not in that group. So, I still have no information on Hekate. Also, the author gives no source for this information.

monsnoleedra

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 10:50:49 pm »
Quote from: Agonistes;53785
Yes, but you rebuked my claim as if I was saying the pentagram was for Hekate. And "or even," alludes to, "if you know, tell me." I don't know a gesture used for Hekate, and therefore I gave a generic.

Actually I didn't say anything about your statement.  I responded to SpoOk's statement about the pentagram.  Knowing the connection that exists to Hecate / Hekate I asked why SpoOk would use it when it means nothing to the goddess.  Hense the reason I linked off of that response and not your initial entry.

I would think a holy or sacred symbol to her would actually be something associated to her such as keys, snakes, dagger, dice, Y shaped cross road, etc.  To my perspective using a pentagram for her makes about as much sense as using the supposed Hekate's wheel which also has no historical connection to her or her cult.

Quote
I didn't say it had anything to do with Hekate, and even though the OP asked, "or even Hekate," that only alludes to wanting to know, and not the information I offered which was just suggesting based on the concept the OP.

But in many ways that is the problem with a lot of neo-pagan items.  You take the pentagram which comes from ceremonial magics and suddenly its a pagan item.  Not only pagan but moved from a magical barrier into some sort of spiritual / religious icon.  I suppose one might accept it as a spiritual / religious item if it is the inverse one used in many forms of Satanism.  Now if you had taken the inverse broken cross (backwards Swastika) that is a spiritual item for instance.  One might even go so far as to use the elder symbol of the fish as a sign of protection.

Though to be honest it amazes me the number of Christian things and concepts that have carried into Paganism.  Holy gestures and such seem to be omitted when you consider all the votive offering pits and such that indicates offerings and such were made to the gods / goddess more than any hand gesture for blessing.

In some ways it reminds me of the old question "Christian's have Stigmata for truly devout practitioners, what do Pagan's have that shows such denotion?"

Quote
Anyways, I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but I do have new information:

In a book I have it mentions just closing your eyes and either saying or thinking the names of the Olympians, alas Hekate is not in that group. So, I still have no information on Hekate. Also, the author gives no source for this information.

Care to state the title and author of this book?  I admit I am very suspect when its a pagan author as to many times its made up with little to no actual historical material to support the conclusions.

Though I do wonder if your refering to the 12 Olympians only or all the gods / goddess that make up the Olympian Pantheon?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 10:51:44 pm by monsnoleedra »

spoOk

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2012, 11:04:43 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;53788
Actually I didn't say anything about your statement.  I responded to SpoOk's statement about the pentagram.  Knowing the connection that exists to Hecate / Hekate I asked why SpoOk would use it when it means nothing to the goddess.  Hense the reason I linked off of that response and not your initial entry.

I would think a holy or sacred symbol to her would actually be something associated to her such as keys, snakes, dagger, dice, Y shaped cross road, etc.  To my perspective using a pentagram for her makes about as much sense as using the supposed Hekate's wheel which also has no historical connection to her or her cult.



But in many ways that is the problem with a lot of neo-pagan items.  You take the pentagram which comes from ceremonial magics and suddenly its a pagan item.  Not only pagan but moved from a magical barrier into some sort of spiritual / religious icon.  I suppose one might accept it as a spiritual / religious item if it is the inverse one used in many forms of Satanism.  Now if you had taken the inverse broken cross (backwards Swastika) that is a spiritual item for instance.  One might even go so far as to use the elder symbol of the fish as a sign of protection.

Though to be honest it amazes me the number of Christian things and concepts that have carried into Paganism.  Holy gestures and such seem to be omitted when you consider all the votive offering pits and such that indicates offerings and such were made to the gods / goddess more than any hand gesture for blessing.

In some ways it reminds me of the old question "Christian's have Stigmata for truly devout practitioners, what do Pagan's have that shows such denotion?"



Care to state the title and author of this book?  I admit I am very suspect when its a pagan author as to many times its made up with little to no actual historical material to support the conclusions.

Though I do wonder if your refering to the 12 Olympians only or all the gods / goddess that make up the Olympian Pantheon?

 
replying to all: for magickal protection in general a pentagram seems an obvious duh that I totally overlooked. I have a ring even witha pentagram on it.
I am in no way a pantheonic worshiper of Hellenic deities on the whole.
just happened to join up with hekate in terms of her being related to the dark moon,liminality,magic and dogs etc.
Mon' , the cross roads etc visioning seems good too. I'm wondering if there's a short phrase I could utter for the same purpose too....for hekate lately I've been using the enochian words that were used in the her sacred fires ritual.
but it is lengthy,but I've memorized it and can chant it.

perhaps there's an overlooked hoodoo type thing I could do too,I've heard of nothing that isn't quick and simple. tho I have heard of people calling eshu or legba to mind as they are about to enter a cemetary or place of gambling.

and for the record spoOk is a gurl.
don't worry I get it all the time.
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

monsnoleedra

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2012, 11:29:16 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;53789
replying to all: for magickal protection in general a pentagram seems an obvious duh that I totally overlooked. I have a ring even witha pentagram on it.
I am in no way a pantheonic worshiper of Hellenic deities on the whole.
just happened to join up with hekate in terms of her being related to the dark moon,liminality,magic and dogs etc.
Mon' , the cross roads etc visioning seems good too. I'm wondering if there's a short phrase I could utter for the same purpose too....for hekate lately I've been using the enochian words that were used in the her sacred fires ritual.
but it is lengthy,but I've memorized it and can chant it.

perhaps there's an overlooked hoodoo type thing I could do too,I've heard of nothing that isn't quick and simple. tho I have heard of people calling eshu or legba to mind as they are about to enter a cemetary or place of gambling.

and for the record spoOk is a gurl.
don't worry I get it all the time.


Don't know if it would matter but you might think about something like a HooDoo bag or Native American Medicine Bag.  Usually something small and worn about the neck that held a few magical items and all the practitioner would have to do it grasp it to activate the medicine it contained.  Sort of like the way you see some people grasp their cross to reassure themselves.

Emma Eldritch

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 01:08:17 am »
Quote from: spoOk;53789
perhaps there's an overlooked hoodoo type thing I could do too,I've heard of nothing that isn't quick and simple. tho I have heard of people calling eshu or legba to mind as they are about to enter a cemetary or place of gambling.

 
The thing is, hoodoo as a magical practice is probably more likely to use psalms or just the crossing gesture you already mentioned. Vodou would use Papa Legba, sure, and there's practitioners of both to be sure but it's not really like... the go-to for hoodoo, you know?

I think monsnoleedra's idea of making a mojo bag or a little spell pouch or whatever might work well for you. You could fill it with protective herbs, or even herbs sacred to Hecate. (I have no idea what those would be, for the record. But there's a bunch of well educated people on the board who would know, I wager!)

Agonistes

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 06:03:48 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;53788

But in many ways that is the problem with a lot of neo-pagan items.  You take the pentagram which comes from ceremonial magics and suddenly its a pagan item.  Not only pagan but moved from a magical barrier into some sort of spiritual / religious icon.  I suppose one might accept it as a spiritual / religious item if it is the inverse one used in many forms of Satanism.  Now if you had taken the inverse broken cross (backwards Swastika) that is a spiritual item for instance.  One might even go so far as to use the elder symbol of the fish as a sign of protection.

Though to be honest it amazes me the number of Christian things and concepts that have carried into Paganism.  Holy gestures and such seem to be omitted when you consider all the votive offering pits and such that indicates offerings and such were made to the gods / goddess more than any hand gesture for blessing.

In some ways it reminds me of the old question "Christian's have Stigmata for truly devout practitioners, what do Pagan's have that shows such denotion?"



Care to state the title and author of this book?  I admit I am very suspect when its a pagan author as to many times its made up with little to no actual historical material to support the conclusions.

Though I do wonder if your refering to the 12 Olympians only or all the gods / goddess that make up the Olympian Pantheon?

 
The pentagram is a pagan symbol, at least for Pythagoreanism and then later for general protection. Since it was called Hugieia, the greek goddess of health and, of course, of the English word, "hygiene."

Quite funny actually, my dissertation was over Pythagoreanism and how he "found" the pentagram, apparently Pythagoras adopted it from when he saw it in Babylon or Egypt, both places he wrote extensively, or what was written about him, about the geometric shapes he noted in both countries and of those he notes the pentagram.

A good book is Pythagoras and Early Pythagoreanism by James A. Philip it has many historical references to the Hugieia and it's uses and origin.

Προσευχές και Ύμνοι is the name of the book which literally means, "Prayers and Hymns." It's a compilation work that gives various suggestions, ideas, and what-not to Hellenistic prayer. It includes old works and new works, it was given to me by a friend and many authors are listed by citation, but the passage that came from has no citation reference to anyone.

spoOk

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 12:18:25 pm »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;53810
The thing is, hoodoo as a magical practice is probably more likely to use psalms or just the crossing gesture you already mentioned. Vodou would use Papa Legba, sure, and there's practitioners of both to be sure but it's not really like... the go-to for hoodoo, you know?

I think monsnoleedra's idea of making a mojo bag or a little spell pouch or whatever might work well for you. You could fill it with protective herbs, or even herbs sacred to Hecate. (I have no idea what those would be, for the record. But there's a bunch of well educated people on the board who would know, I wager!)



thanks for that. yknow technically the cross is a symbolic crossroads,lol.
anyhow,I've got alot to think over and work with.
might just come up with my own something that works for me ala wickermans suggestion.
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

monsnoleedra

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Re: quicky blessing type gesture?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 12:50:23 pm »
Quote from: Agonistes;53834
The pentagram is a pagan symbol, at least for Pythagoreanism and then later for general protection. Since it was called Hugieia, the greek goddess of health and, of course, of the English word, "hygiene."

Quite funny actually, my dissertation was over Pythagoreanism and how he "found" the pentagram, apparently Pythagoras adopted it from when he saw it in Babylon or Egypt, both places he wrote extensively, or what was written about him, about the geometric shapes he noted in both countries and of those he notes the pentagram.

A good book is Pythagoras and Early Pythagoreanism by James A. Philip it has many historical references to the Hugieia and it's uses and origin.


But it still goes back to magical based usage and systems.  Not really to religious or spiritual based practices until later when it gets adopted by paganism.    Though it seem's to have re-birthed beneath the many magical schools that took root in Egypt and in Greece.  I suppose for most of pagandom it's another thing that is supposedly reclaimed from the Satanic charges the church made against its usage.

Though I suppose part of it derives from how one defines "Pagan".  I do not see Pagan or Paganism as a religion or Spirituality but a descriptor for a group of practices that claim a heritage derived from pre-Christian cults or inspired by them and their gods / goddesses.


Quote
Προσευχές και Ύμνοι is the name of the book which literally means, "Prayers and Hymns." It's a compilation work that gives various suggestions, ideas, and what-not to Hellenistic prayer. It includes old works and new works, it was given to me by a friend and many authors are listed by citation, but the passage that came from has no citation reference to anyone.


Is that book published in English or Greek?  Based upon the title it looks to be in Greek.  Thank you though for it gives me something else to check out.

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