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Author Topic: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.  (Read 3074 times)

Caleb Oak

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Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« on: November 05, 2016, 02:08:45 pm »
I will keep this short:
Is there a dark magic tradition that has NO ties of any kind to the Abrahamic beliefs?
AKA utterly unrelated to things such as Satanism?
(Think Skirsdag, the Cabal or the cult of Rakdos from MTG)

Thanks.
;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 02:09:21 pm by Thrak »

Darkhawk

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2016, 02:22:42 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;198699
I will keep this short:
Is there a dark magic tradition that has NO ties of any kind to the Abrahamic beliefs?

 
I doubt very much that there is much of a concept of "dark magic" as a tradition which is uninfluenced by Manichaean dualism, and thus Christianity.

Normal magical traditions I'm familiar with have their curses and the like integrated rather than breaking them out into "the ooky spooky part" and "the benevolent part".
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2016, 01:59:35 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;198700
I doubt very much that there is much of a concept of "dark magic" as a tradition which is uninfluenced by Manichaean dualism, and thus Christianity.

Normal magical traditions I'm familiar with have their curses and the like integrated rather than breaking them out into "the ooky spooky part" and "the benevolent part".

Ok, i was not clear enough, my bad..... :ashamed:

I mean a tradition that is focused on getting power and summoning without caring about who they take it from, rather than serving nature or a deity/ties.
One that is not about balance or duality in the first place, but about becoming stronger in order to sustain the spiritual self, rather than serving some other force that only cares about the ''big picture'', while ignoring need to exist the individual inherently has.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 02:03:48 pm by Thrak »

Castus

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2016, 02:18:58 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;198761
Ok, i was not clear enough, my bad..... :ashamed:

I mean a tradition that is focused on getting power and summoning without caring about who they take it from, rather than serving nature or a deity/ties.
One that is not about balance or duality in the first place, but about becoming stronger in order to sustain the spiritual self, rather than serving some other force that only cares about the ''big picture'', while ignoring need to exist the individual inherently has.

 
Sounds like Asshole Magic to me.
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

Emma Eldritch

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 06:01:59 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;198761
I mean a tradition that is focused on getting power and summoning without caring about who they take it from, rather than serving nature or a deity/ties.
One that is not about balance or duality in the first place, but about becoming stronger in order to sustain the spiritual self, rather than serving some other force that only cares about the ''big picture'', while ignoring need to exist the individual inherently has.

 
Castus is right - that could totally be considered Asshole Magic.  But if you don't care, well, then it doesn't really matter, does it?

Offhand, I don't know of any traditions that are solely based on the attainment of power - even goetic magic seems to teach the magician how to become a more balanced individual in spite of its spooky reputation. Besides which, some of that involves using Abrahamic shit to boss demons around with, so if you're trying to avoid all of that entirely it's not really up your alley.

Chaos Magic is something you may want to look into if you haven't already. I only loosely consider it a 'tradition' because it's really more of a philosophy and mindset rather than a structured magical system. (IE: you will find many chaos magicians using tech from other traditions, like Western Ceremonial.) Still, it may give you an idea of how to incorporate ideas from other places to help you achieve your goals.

What the real issue sounds like, to me, is that you want permission to be utterly selfish. Again, you might have a hard time finding a group with that goal emblazoned on their business card. You could, of course, find a group that's close enough to what you're after and just ignore the bits you don't care about. (I'm not saying this is polite or intelligent, just that it's an option.) You could also look in the motivational section of the bookstore and find one of those "how to be in charge of your life!" style manuals - I'd wager they have some tactics in getting what you want without worrying overly much about deities or nature.

Honestly, just try some stuff that you're comfortable with. Magic itself is pretty neutral, and the basic skills tend to be the same across the board. Just figure out your goals and try some shit out. You'll find out pretty quickly what you can and cannot handle.

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2016, 11:52:07 am »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;198769
Castus is right - that could totally be considered Asshole Magic.  But if you don't care, well, then it doesn't really matter, does it?

Offhand, I don't know of any traditions that are solely based on the attainment of power - even goetic magic seems to teach the magician how to become a more balanced individual in spite of its spooky reputation. Besides which, some of that involves using Abrahamic shit to boss demons around with, so if you're trying to avoid all of that entirely it's not really up your alley.

Chaos Magic is something you may want to look into if you haven't already. I only loosely consider it a 'tradition' because it's really more of a philosophy and mindset rather than a structured magical system. (IE: you will find many chaos magicians using tech from other traditions, like Western Ceremonial.) Still, it may give you an idea of how to incorporate ideas from other places to help you achieve your goals.

What the real issue sounds like, to me, is that you want permission to be utterly selfish. Again, you might have a hard time finding a group with that goal emblazoned on their business card. You could, of course, find a group that's close enough to what you're after and just ignore the bits you don't care about. (I'm not saying this is polite or intelligent, just that it's an option.) You could also look in the motivational section of the bookstore and find one of those "how to be in charge of your life!" style manuals - I'd wager they have some tactics in getting what you want without worrying overly much about deities or nature.

Honestly, just try some stuff that you're comfortable with. Magic itself is pretty neutral, and the basic skills tend to be the same across the board. Just figure out your goals and try some shit out. You'll find out pretty quickly what you can and cannot handle.

Well its not that I do not care about others but self preservation is a priority nonetheless, after all I do not want to end up having my soul digested by some hungry deity, or some force that sees me as  disposable....

And it seems like you are calling me names, so i hope i am mistaken.....
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 11:52:30 am by Thrak »

Darkhawk

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 01:47:50 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;198792
Well its not that I do not care about others but self preservation is a priority nonetheless, after all I do not want to end up having my soul digested by some hungry deity, or some force that sees me as  disposable....

 
Fortunately, you would have to go to some effort to find such an entity in the first place.  (Or be a really, really unredeemably terrible human being.)  So you can stop worrying about it.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 03:01:41 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;198800
Fortunately, you would have to go to some effort to find such an entity in the first place.  (Or be a really, really unredeemably terrible human being.)  So you can stop worrying about it.

 
Does being filled with negative energy count? :p

I just feel in tune with chaotic and destructive energies.
And there is no tradition i can draw inspiration from so that is why i am asking. ;)

Emma Eldritch

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 12:35:42 am »
Quote from: Thrak;198792
Well its not that I do not care about others but self preservation is a priority nonetheless, after all I do not want to end up having my soul digested by some hungry deity, or some force that sees me as  disposable....

And it seems like you are calling me names, so i hope i am mistaken.....

 
I don't believe your soul will be digested by any one entity. I'm not sure I believe souls are digested at all.

It's definitely not my intention to call you names. I just think that if one chooses to be selfish, one should be honest about it. Shit, I'M selfish - I'm not out here doing magic to help my fellow man before I look after myself.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2016, 08:19:28 am »
Quote from: Thrak;198699
I will keep this short:
Is there a dark magic tradition that has NO ties of any kind to the Abrahamic beliefs?
AKA utterly unrelated to things such as Satanism?
(Think Skirsdag, the Cabal or the cult of Rakdos from MTG)

Thanks.
;)

 
Honestly, I'd get over your aversion to Satanism. Because LaVeyian Satanism sounds right in your ball park.

They don't worship the Abrahamic Satan, they're atheists.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 10:41:17 am »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;198769

What the real issue sounds like, to me, is that you want permission to be utterly selfish. Again, you might have a hard time finding a group with that goal emblazoned on their business card.

 
Unless you try and combine occultism with objectivism as a personal way of working.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2016, 11:24:35 am »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;198845
I don't believe your soul will be digested by any one entity. I'm not sure I believe souls are digested at all.

It's definitely not my intention to call you names. I just think that if one chooses to be selfish, one should be honest about it. Shit, I'M selfish - I'm not out here doing magic to help my fellow man before I look after myself.

 
I believe so to. Souls last forever. But i tend to overturtle.

I don't mind helping others. I love it.
I just have an unexplained lust for power, especially spiritual power such as magic.

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2016, 11:26:48 am »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;198852
Honestly, I'd get over your aversion to Satanism. Because LaVeyian Satanism sounds right in your ball park.

They don't worship the Abrahamic Satan, they're atheists.

Primarily because its a bit of a contradiction and its way to American for me.
I have read his "bible" and found its amateurish at best.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 11:27:22 am by Thrak »

Caleb Oak

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 11:28:31 am »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;198857
Unless you try and combine occultism with objectivism as a personal way of working.

 
I would just like a source of inspiration. :)
Thats all.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Non Abrahamic Dark magic tradition.
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 12:36:36 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;198860
Primarily because its a bit of a contradiction and its way to American for me.
I have read his "bible" and found its amateurish at best.

 
That's valid, I'm not a big fan either.  Stuff either 'clicks' or it doesn't.  But there might be bits from it you can use without signing up to it wholesale.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

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