collapse

* Recent Posts

Re: new & uncertain! by PerditaPickle
[Yesterday at 07:00:39 pm]


Re: Back pain by Micheál
[Yesterday at 06:42:53 am]


Re: Favorite Beer? by Micheál
[Yesterday at 06:31:29 am]


new & uncertain! by shoemakerlevy9
[January 22, 2021, 01:36:47 pm]


Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol? by Altair
[January 22, 2021, 12:44:20 pm]

Author Topic: Looking for Magical System  (Read 4033 times)

Lana288

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Looking for Magical System
« on: May 15, 2014, 10:25:50 pm »
Hello all!

I'm considering going into magic (hence the post in the Magic and Occult for Beginners forum ;) ) and I have a couple questions.

My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes! :eek: What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances? I don't never want to practice magic, but I don't want to be flippant about it either.

My second question involves not knowing anything about any magical systems. Really, I'm at a loss here- I know a little about witchcraft and ceremonial magic, but my knowledge ends there. I can't say I'm really interested in either, but that could change with a little information.

What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations, is 'safe' (I have no desire to summon spirits, and I don't want to try and cast... darker... spells), and that has a system to invite diety into the magic when appropriate. Anything come to mind?

Thanks for your help!

Jabberwocky

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 452
  • Total likes: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 11:15:11 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;147639

My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes! :eek: What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances? I don't never want to practice magic, but I don't want to be flippant about it either.


That's an excellent question and one more people could do with asking themselves at the start.  (Frankly, pretty much anything has to be more respectable then "I'm stoned and have been reading comics all day" which is how I got into magic).

Without wanting to be trite, there's as many answers to that question as there are people practicing magic though.  It's an answer you can only find for yourself, taking into account your own morality etc.  If you say you "don't never want to practice magic", it suggests to me that something is attracting you to the concept.  Do you want to try and see the world in a different way?  Are you wanting to use it to try and achieve positive changes in your life?  Are you simply curious about it?  For the sake of this discussion, there is really no such thing as a 'too trivial' reason.  All reasons are good, as long as they're genuinely felt.

Quote
What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations, is 'safe' (I have no desire to summon spirits, and I don't want to try and cast... darker... spells), and that has a system to invite diety into the magic when appropriate. Anything come to mind?

Thanks for your help!


What, from your perspective, is the difference between summoning spirits and inviting deity in?  A lot of people would agree with you that the difference is there and significant, but I think it's important to know what this means to you.

Partly because what I'm unsure on is if you're looking for a religious practice that incorporates magic or looking for a magical system for its own sake.

If it's the former, there are people on this forum well placed to advise you, but I'm absolutely not one of them!

If it's the latter, I'd suggest looking into techniques and seeing what appeals.  At this stage, it doesn't need to be any more then "yes, that sounds cool" or "no, that's not for me".  Because the possibilities are so broad here, I'd advise starting with personal preference as your main guideline.  There's a lot to be said for tailoring a system to your needs rather then trying to find one 'off the peg' as it were.

It's worth noting that my background is chaos magic and what I've just recommended is pretty much standard advice for anyone from that background.  So be aware that I bring my own biases into that.

Finally, from what you've said about wanting magic to be practical, it sounds to me like you're leaning towards what's often known as 'low magic' (I personally hate the term but it's what's in use).  As such, I'd agree ceremonial magic may not be for you, at least not at this stage in your practice.  While I know you said no to witchcraft, that's a broad term.  Possibly look into hedgewitchery etc.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Faemon

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1229
  • Total likes: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 12:02:10 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;147639
My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes! :eek:

What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances? I don't never want to practice magic, but I don't want to be flippant about it either.

Every spell has a goal, as you've spelled out. Love spells for the unloved, money spells for those threatened with poverty, and curses for those who have been denied justice. It's immoral for those who uphold independence, charity, and forgiveness--but I think those who uphold such things just maybe might be able to afford to uphold such things. They've never been shunned into nothingness, been faced with really having zero resources, or felt the natural progression of irreparable pain to wrath... so it's never going to be so bad that one must do something about it, and can only make a go of it through metaphysical means because the caster is powerless in every other way.

If the caster were not powerless in every other way, they would develop themselves into someone ready for a relationship and then go out and ask for dates from people; they would get a second job, and give a stern talking-to someone who's wronged them.

They can cast a spell and then do all of the above, of course, but why is the mundane way any different? Unfortunately, I've grown up in a place where dating can be considered immoral if you don't already plan to marry them going on (never mind that you won't know if you'd marry them until you date them). Any sensible business plan that prices you what you're worth can be considered greedy to customers who want it your goods or services for as cheaply as possible. And any confrontation about what matters can be considered terribly rude.

By my experience, there isn't all that much line... The way I've experienced it: the force behind magical workings is natural to everybody. When you're infatuated with somebody, sensitive people can pick up on these waves of "energy". When you're on track in the grand scheme of things, good fortune and luck is going to waft around you. When you wish somebody ill will, a metaphysical connection does naturally form.

That's why, in my opinion, it doesn't take a spell. Everybody does these things naturally. A spell is just a way to consciously control it. Since I was growing up swamped by other people's energies and it was horribly upsetting, I wish that everyone knew how to cast a spell so that they're not "casting a spell" all of the time. It was suffocating.

(Then again, I might just be crazy.)

Quote
My second question involves not knowing anything about any magical systems. Really, I'm at a loss here- I know a little about witchcraft and ceremonial magic, but my knowledge ends there. I can't say I'm really interested in either, but that could change with a little information.

What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations, is 'safe' (I have no desire to summon spirits, and I don't want to try and cast... darker... spells), and that has a system to invite deity into the magic when appropriate. Anything come to mind?

Psionics, definitely.

The experience I've grown up having of these clouds coming off of people, I believe other people have had that and put a language to it: they call it "energy".

I've outgrown that word because I'm beginning to believe that the mechanics aren't as closely-tied to the understanding of physical science as the vocabulary of psionics makes it out to be, but it's a good place to start.

The basic metaphysical theory is that there's a non-physical overlay of reality upon the one that we know and live: the astral plane. (Or, because psions generally love to quibble over vocabulary, it's also called the ethereal or etheric plane, or the real-time zone, or a bunch of other names for planes that they insist mean that "astral" refers to the overlay over this overlay over this reality.)

The astral plane has forces that can be influenced by thought and emotion. The force of thought and emotion is information, and information can come in the form of a signature.

So, creating a link is probably the most common magic. When I have misplaced an item, I use this spell that I learned from Christopher Penczak's Instant Magick, wherein I visualize a string made out of light tied around the item that I lost, and then I imagine that this string extends into my hand. I make the motions of pulling at this string, and feel an almost-physical pull towards where I last left the object.

Presently, I think it works by my knowing subconsciously where I misplaced the object, and this visualization allows me to tangentially access its location. The subconscious can be difficult to dive into and work with directly, so for minds like mind this song-and-dance of silly symbols is necessary.

In a psionic paradigm, what I have done is brought alive the concept of the misplaced object that I seek through information--I connect myself with the "psychic signature" of the lost object.

The collective Unverified Personal Gnosis* of psions has, from what I've seen, been in disagreement on whether or not a nonliving thing can generate psychic "energy".

None of us have it figured out...which is why I liked this system, really. We took for granted that psychic abilities were real, but we were always open to figuring out how it really could work.

If you want to invite a deity, you pretty much do the same thing. Lock into the deity's psychic signature, envision (or create) a link, and politely do some reeling in. Allow yourself to be sensitive to the response.

Note that if you open yourself up to this other reality and other mechanics, you might encounter beings that you don't expect or want to interact with, and they might insist upon interacting with you. It might not happen, and there are precautions and defenses that you can take if it does, but if it does then it just does... Sorry. This isn't a science or a civilized due process, unfortunately. It's woo-woo, dabbling in things beyond anybody's ken. It promises much, delivers little, and might get your soul eaten. Welcome! :)

Here's a copy of my favorite tutorial on it, which blends a host of other traditions but generally has psionics as the basis.

Another magical system that I've been interested in more recently, is psychological Alchemy. Catherine MacCoun wrote a pretty good introduction to that, I think, in her On Becoming An Alchemist. There's Hermeticism, there's sexism, but mostly there's psychology.

From what I gather, "the original alchemy" really was basically about getting lei'd, as MacCoun says, the ultimate goal of any magician is to know God--the mind of God, the workings of God--but any goal will do. Wanting to get laid will do. (I suppose, wanting more money will do. Wanting justice or understanding from another person will do.) The goal is the way to add dynamic to a natural process of personal growth and development. That's magic, too. MacCoun manages to explain the planes of reality in a much clearer way, and the positive effect that the practice of magic (particularly the practice of Alchemy) has on a person.

And the practice of alchemy described in that book has nothing to do with beakers and risking lead poisoning and explosions...it's all emotional work, and meditative mind-work. So, that might also be useful to look into.

Phew! Sorry that I went on for so long. I haven't even presented the magical system that I'm building for myself and that I currently use. Still, I hope this helps!





* not a psionic term, I think some psions refer to this as "analytical overlay" or just plain "analysis"?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:02:47 am by Faemon »
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 12:13:32 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;147639
Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes!
...
What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations

What kinds of everyday situations do you have in mind? Most of my regular, habitual magic is money, protection or luck-related because those are my everyday concerns, so I am not sure what to recommend.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 01:41:34 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;147639
Hello all!

I'm considering going into magic (hence the post in the Magic and Occult for Beginners forum ;) ) and I have a couple questions.

My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes! :eek: What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances? I don't never want to practice magic, but I don't want to be flippant about it either.

My second question involves not knowing anything about any magical systems. Really, I'm at a loss here- I know a little about witchcraft and ceremonial magic, but my knowledge ends there. I can't say I'm really interested in either, but that could change with a little information.

What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations, is 'safe' (I have no desire to summon spirits, and I don't want to try and cast... darker... spells), and that has a system to invite diety into the magic when appropriate. Anything come to mind?

Thanks for your help!

 
I disagree with Jabberwocky - getting stoned and reading comics all day is a GREAT way to get into magic!

But if you don't like drugs or comic books, you can certainly take other routes. The fact that you're asking questions before diving in certainly seems to indicate that you're a thinker, and that's going to be important.

Okay, onto your questions.

In terms of what magic should and should not be used for... ehhhh. I'm of loose morals, so my answer is you shouldn't use it when you know for a fact that it's going to screw a situation up. You can use magic to augment most mundane actions, so it's not really ever inappropriate, provided you're not depending solely on your spells when there are mundane solutions you should be considering. Other than that, go nuts.

If you're interested in practical magic, then yeah, you're looking at 'low' magic and so can safely avoid Ceremonial stuff. You could look at folk magic systems, or chaos magic. (A lot of chaos magicians use ceremonial techniques, but it certainly is not mandatory. Of particular interest to you might be sigil magic as it is easy, portable, and applicable to many different situations.)

Half the fun of magic is experimenting, so don't shy away from things that you find cool. Once you start learning you'll find that systems tend to have universal skill sets involved, and those will form a basis for your practice regardless of what that practice is.

Redfaery

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1345
  • Total likes: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 05:01:05 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;147639
Hello all!

I'm considering going into magic (hence the post in the Magic and Occult for Beginners forum ;) ) and I have a couple questions.

My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. Love spells seem immoral, money spells greedy, and curses- Yikes! :eek: What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances? I don't never want to practice magic, but I don't want to be flippant about it either.


Yeah, it's good that you're not flippant. ;) I've had some...interesting experiences with magic. The first semi-magical working I did I tried to send positive energy to a cash-strapped and generally unfortunate friend (with her permission), and ended up somehow accidentally jinxing her. (Fortunately, she had her own remedies for this, and didn't hold it against me, which was a relief, even though I still feel AWFUL, since I was trying so hard to help her, and I just made things SO MUCH WORSE)

The second time, I did a conscious spell to alleviate some minor, normal hormonal issues that were bothering me. I had a red candle dressed with oil, red stones, the lot. I carved runes on it, burned it down...and it didn't fix a thing. Know what it DID do? Fix my computer! The Windows 8 DPC Watchdog violation blue screen of death is GONE!!! TAKE THAT. I just remember chilling in bed with my laptop and getting the "nudge" in my solar plexus - always a sign that something's happened. And I was like "Dammit! Good, but no good!"

But I think there are many reasons for magic. You can do magic to help with minor health issues that a trip to the doctor won't necessarily help any further. Like allergies that you're already taking medicine for. Maybe a quicky charm to help the symptoms go down while you're waiting for the medicine to build up in your system. Or, in my case, I did a spell to help my body accept an intra-uterine device - though it didn't work how I intended.

There's also nothing wrong with more general spells, in my opinion. If you're single and want a relationship, a generic spell to make YOURSELF more attractive would qualify as a "love" spell to some, as would a spell to draw the "right" person. But since you're not trying to impose your will on a SPECIFIC individual - not making Joey or Janey McHotstuff do your bidding - it's not morally questionable in that way.

I also don't see how money spells are "greedy," unless you already are rich, and the money spell is taking that money from other people who need it. Let's face it, most people need a little extra funding every now and then, and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get some extra help!

I'm curious to see other people's suggestions in this thread, because I'm interested in magic myself. My own leanings are more towards invoking deities and asking their help in my workings - I suck at thaumaturgy.

Wow. Long post. Sorry.:eek:
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 05:02:46 am by Redfaery »
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Lana288

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 08:00:43 pm »
First, thanks for all the responses! I'm going to snip at the quotes a little, but I was careful to read all of them completely.
 
Quote from: Jabberwocky;147644
Do you want to try and see the world in a different way?  Are you wanting to use it to try and achieve positive changes in your life?  Are you simply curious about it?  For the sake of this discussion, there is really no such thing as a 'too trivial' reason.  All reasons are good, as long as they're genuinely felt.


I'm going to ponder this one a little. I think that I'm inclined towards it as a system for curing minor faults in my life. I also enjoy the sense of wonder it gives me- like the world's gotten much bigger and more mysterious, but in a good way. It's similar to the reason I dove into spirituality, but differently nuanced. I also like the thought of practicing magic just for the sake of practicing magic. (You did say no such thing as too trivial!)


Quote from: Jabberwocky;147644
What, from your perspective, is the difference between summoning spirits and inviting deity in?  A lot of people would agree with you that the difference is there and significant, but I think it's important to know what this means to you.

Partly because what I'm unsure on is if you're looking for a religious practice that incorporates magic or looking for a magical system for its own sake.


Spirits are too random for me to deal with. See, with a god, you're working with something that's not going to turn out to be malevolent and try to get you to drown yourself. Spirits aren't going to be quite that safe.

Just a magical system. Religion's covered.

Quote from: Jabberwocky;147644
Finally, from what you've said about wanting magic to be practical, it sounds to me like you're leaning towards what's often known as 'low magic' (I personally hate the term but it's what's in use).  As such, I'd agree ceremonial magic may not be for you, at least not at this stage in your practice.  While I know you said no to witchcraft, that's a broad term.  Possibly look into hedgewitchery etc.


Hmmm. Can you define hedgewitchery? I've heard of it, but have no idea what it entails.

Low magic sounds about right, yes.

Quote from: Faemon;147647
Every spell has a goal, as you've spelled out. Love spells for the unloved, money spells for those threatened with poverty, and curses for those who have been denied justice. It's immoral for those who uphold independence, charity, and forgiveness--but I think those who uphold such things just maybe might be able to afford to uphold such things. They've never been shunned into nothingness, been faced with really having zero resources, or felt the natural progression of irreparable pain to wrath... so it's never going to be so bad that one must do something about it, and can only make a go of it through metaphysical means because the caster is powerless in every other way.

If the caster were not powerless in every other way, they would develop themselves into someone ready for a relationship and then go out and ask for dates from people; they would get a second job, and give a stern talking-to someone who's wronged them.

 


I should quickly say that I don't see anything wrong with money spells if you're in poverty, love spells if you're lonely, or curses if someone's actively (and purposefully) harming you. I just think that the situations that you'd use magic like that would be far and few between... (if one was lucky, of course). With that in mind, I'm looking for something to use in everyday life, not just once in a blue moon.

 
Quote from: Faemon;147647
Note that if you open yourself up to this other reality and other mechanics, you might encounter beings that you don't expect or want to interact with, and they might insist upon interacting with you. It might not happen, and there are precautions and defenses that you can take if it does, but if it does then it just does... Sorry. This isn't a science or a civilized due process, unfortunately. It's woo-woo, dabbling in things beyond anybody's ken. It promises much, delivers little, and might get your soul eaten. Welcome! :)

Here's a copy of my favorite tutorial on it, which blends a host of other traditions but generally has psionics as the basis.

Another magical system that I've been interested in more recently, is psychological Alchemy. Catherine MacCoun wrote a pretty good introduction to that, I think, in her On Becoming An Alchemist. There's Hermeticism, there's sexism, but mostly there's psychology.

And the practice of alchemy described in that book has nothing to do with beakers and risking lead poisoning and explosions...it's all emotional work, and meditative mind-work. So, that might also be useful to look into.

Phew! Sorry that I went on for so long. I haven't even presented the magical system that I'm building for myself and that I currently use. Still, I hope this helps!

* not a psionic term, I think some psions refer to this as "analytical overlay" or just plain "analysis"?


Thanks! I like the concept of psionics, but I'm looking for something that I can use without summoning malevolent forces into my life- I have no interest in becoming dinner for something Out There. Alchemy sounds more viable for me- do you have any links to websites I can browse for a general feeling of it?
 
Quote from: Jack;147648
What kinds of everyday situations do you have in mind? Most of my regular, habitual magic is money, protection or luck-related because those are my everyday concerns, so I am not sure what to recommend.


Protection and luck sound good. Minor healing magics would be good too, as well as magics that influence emotions and promote mental and spiritual health. Does that help?
 
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;147654

In terms of what magic should and should not be used for... ehhhh. I'm of loose morals, so my answer is you shouldn't use it when you know for a fact that it's going to screw a situation up. You can use magic to augment most mundane actions, so it's not really ever inappropriate, provided you're not depending solely on your spells when there are mundane solutions you should be considering. Other than that, go nuts.

If you're interested in practical magic, then yeah, you're looking at 'low' magic and so can safely avoid Ceremonial stuff. You could look at folk magic systems, or chaos magic. (A lot of chaos magicians use ceremonial techniques, but it certainly is not mandatory. Of particular interest to you might be sigil magic as it is easy, portable, and applicable to many different situations.)

Half the fun of magic is experimenting, so don't shy away from things that you find cool. Once you start learning you'll find that systems tend to have universal skill sets involved, and those will form a basis for your practice regardless of what that practice is.


Chaos magic isn't quite my thing. Folk and sigil magic might be, however- can you tell a little about those?

A tradition would be preferable. It keeps things cohesive.
 
Quote from: Redfaery;147661
The second time, I did a conscious spell to alleviate some minor, normal hormonal issues that were bothering me. I had a red candle dressed with oil, red stones, the lot. I carved runes on it, burned it down...and it didn't fix a thing. Know what it DID do? Fix my computer! The Windows 8 DPC Watchdog violation blue screen of death is GONE!!! TAKE THAT. I just remember chilling in bed with my laptop and getting the "nudge" in my solar plexus - always a sign that something's happened. And I was like "Dammit! Good, but no good!"


I love this. :p I'll take the warning to heart, however. It wouldn't do to cast a protection spell on myself and accidently set off a fire in the neighbor's house! (Or, vice-versa. :D: (kidding!) )

Quote from: Redfaery;147661
But I think there are many reasons for magic. You can do magic to help with minor health issues that a trip to the doctor won't necessarily help any further. Like allergies that you're already taking medicine for. Maybe a quicky charm to help the symptoms go down while you're waiting for the medicine to build up in your system. Or, in my case, I did a spell to help my body accept an intra-uterine device - though it didn't work how I intended.

There's also nothing wrong with more general spells, in my opinion. If you're single and want a relationship, a generic spell to make YOURSELF more attractive would qualify as a "love" spell to some, as would a spell to draw the "right" person. But since you're not trying to impose your will on a SPECIFIC individual - not making Joey or Janey McHotstuff do your bidding - it's not morally questionable in that way.


That's what I was thinking- that anything that involves forcing other individuals to do things without their consent is a violation. I want to avoid that.

Otherwise, spells on yourself to make yourself more attractive, or to draw people to you sound fine. Don't clothes and exercise work the same way?

Quote from: Redfaery;147661
I also don't see how money spells are "greedy," unless you already are rich, and the money spell is taking that money from other people who need it. Let's face it, most people need a little extra funding every now and then, and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get some extra help!

***

Wow. Long post. Sorry.:eek:

 
I'll consider my ethics. That is a good point- I just don't want to go through life looking for handouts from the universe. It's just a little unseemingly.

Don't worry. Bet my long post beats your long post, at any rate. ;)

Faemon

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1229
  • Total likes: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 11:44:09 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;147697
Spirits are too random for me to deal with. See, with a god, you're working with something that's not going to turn out to be malevolent and try to get you to drown yourself. Spirits aren't going to be quite that safe.


Unfortunately, I must disagree. It's just a label. I was raised in a religion that taught me about an omnipresent, omnipotent God as well as individual guardian angels. I was sensitive, so there was just vibes and junk from other people all around...and nasty spirits. I prayed, and got nothing. I prayed some more in the same church that my mother had gone into, and just got even more awful vibes (it was a Charismatic Christian church where people would get voluntarily possessed or enraptured, and begin speaking in tongues and such.)

So, by my experience, "gods" and "spirits" are just labels. All of them came into my experience in response to the condition of my instrument of willpower (and therefore magic), my psyche or accumulated vibes over this lifetime or perhaps even several. To work with and through the bad spirits was an inevitable process to find my way back to the company of the guardians.

It's not the case for everyone, but I wouldn't attribute that to the path that is involved. I mean, Christianity isn't supposed to have anything to do with this sort of thing, but since I was there--well, I was there. A number of those who are called to magic don't have  a choice not to encounter a nasty spirit. A number of those who pursue magic eventually find that they don't have a choice not to encounter a nasty spirit.

To me, it's like this: You're asking for a job where you don't have to deal with other people who can be jerks, but the very nature of a job is that you have a place in society and therefore are dealing with other people--some of who might be jerks. You can land a job where everybody generally cares about not being a jerk, and the chance of conflicts are reduced, but the possibility can't be eliminated.

So if you're looking for low-risk like that, I'd go for psionics, but low-risk doesn't mean zero risk.

Quote
I like the concept of psionics, but I'm looking for something that I can use without summoning malevolent forces into my life- I have no interest in becoming dinner for something Out There.


Many psionic practitioners don't encounter or believe in malevolent non-human entities, actually. There are some other psionic practitioners who do, but that's a splinter group from the super-scientific ones.

If you're still going to pursue magic, then I'd highly recommend Christopher Penczak's Instant Magick. In addition to the "find a lost object" spell, he also has "how to enchant an astral sword or symbol of the same to be able to tell if somebody is lying" and "how to draw up earth energy for better physical stamina".

Quote
Alchemy sounds more viable for me- do you have any links to websites I can browse for a general feeling of it?


I only have the offline books, sadly... and MacCoun did have a section on what she calls "baggage check" (which is facing personal shadows) and the gatekeepers of the upper and lower realms who can be unpleasant to you.


There are also traditions of wishing spells which are everywhere because they're considered harmless, but I'd also say that without any danger they're probably also going to be less effective than you'd want them to be.
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 11:56:28 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;147697
Chaos magic isn't quite my thing. Folk and sigil magic might be, however- can you tell a little about those?

A tradition would be preferable. It keeps things cohesive.


I used to say the same thing regarding chaos magic, actually, heh. Anyway, sigil magic is one of the easiest things to learn once you've got your basics down - here's a very quick rundown on the process. For further reading, I suggest Jan Fries' 'Visual Magic,' or perhaps Practical Sigil Magic by Frater U.D. (I have not read the latter, but I have read his "Where Do Demons Live?" and found him amusing and straightforward, so I'd be willing to bet his sigil book is pretty decent.) Although honestly, you can learn all you need to about sigils online for free!

Folk magic varies depending on the folk, but I'd say overall it's characterized by local ingredients, practical aims, and the theory of sympathetic magic more often than not. For a good overview of folk magic, I'd suggest Judika Illes' The Element Encyclopedia of 5000 Spells. You can just flip through it in a bookstore, get a feel for how that sort of stuff tends to feel.

If you want a coherent tradition, however, you may wind up with some form of Wiccan-esque witchcraft, ceremonial magic, or hoodoo. Magic is one of those areas where you learn more by doing and fucking up than anything else, I think.

Lana288

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 04:07:31 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;147707
Unfortunately, I must disagree. It's just a label. I was raised in a religion that taught me about an omnipresent, omnipotent God as well as individual guardian angels. I was sensitive, so there was just vibes and junk from other people all around...and nasty spirits. I prayed, and got nothing. I prayed some more in the same church that my mother had gone into, and just got even more awful vibes (it was a Charismatic Christian church where people would get voluntarily possessed or enraptured, and begin speaking in tongues and such.)

So, by my experience, "gods" and "spirits" are just labels. All of them came into my experience in response to the condition of my instrument of willpower (and therefore magic), my psyche or accumulated vibes over this lifetime or perhaps even several. To work with and through the bad spirits was an inevitable process to find my way back to the company of the guardians.

It's not the case for everyone, but I wouldn't attribute that to the path that is involved. I mean, Christianity isn't supposed to have anything to do with this sort of thing, but since I was there--well, I was there. A number of those who are called to magic don't have  a choice not to encounter a nasty spirit. A number of those who pursue magic eventually find that they don't have a choice not to encounter a nasty spirit.

To me, it's like this: You're asking for a job where you don't have to deal with other people who can be jerks, but the very nature of a job is that you have a place in society and therefore are dealing with other people--some of who might be jerks. You can land a job where everybody generally cares about not being a jerk, and the chance of conflicts are reduced, but the possibility can't be eliminated.

So if you're looking for low-risk like that, I'd go for psionics, but low-risk doesn't mean zero risk.



Many psionic practitioners don't encounter or believe in malevolent non-human entities, actually. There are some other psionic practitioners who do, but that's a splinter group from the super-scientific ones.

If you're still going to pursue magic, then I'd highly recommend Christopher Penczak's Instant Magick. In addition to the "find a lost object" spell, he also has "how to enchant an astral sword or symbol of the same to be able to tell if somebody is lying" and "how to draw up earth energy for better physical stamina".



I only have the offline books, sadly... and MacCoun did have a section on what she calls "baggage check" (which is facing personal shadows) and the gatekeepers of the upper and lower realms who can be unpleasant to you.


There are also traditions of wishing spells which are everywhere because they're considered harmless, but I'd also say that without any danger they're probably also going to be less effective than you'd want them to be.


I'll keep that in mind. I do think you're right, on reflection- it's a little foolish to jump into anything and expect it to be full of only warmfuzziness. With that in mind, I think I'll do some research on some protective spells, and then... go wild. :D: Thank you so much for your input!!
 
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;147711
I used to say the same thing regarding chaos magic, actually, heh. Anyway, sigil magic is one of the easiest things to learn once you've got your basics down - here's a very quick rundown on the process. For further reading, I suggest Jan Fries' 'Visual Magic,' or perhaps Practical Sigil Magic by Frater U.D. (I have not read the latter, but I have read his "Where Do Demons Live?" and found him amusing and straightforward, so I'd be willing to bet his sigil book is pretty decent.) Although honestly, you can learn all you need to about sigils online for free!

Folk magic varies depending on the folk, but I'd say overall it's characterized by local ingredients, practical aims, and the theory of sympathetic magic more often than not. For a good overview of folk magic, I'd suggest Judika Illes' The Element Encyclopedia of 5000 Spells. You can just flip through it in a bookstore, get a feel for how that sort of stuff tends to feel.

If you want a coherent tradition, however, you may wind up with some form of Wiccan-esque witchcraft, ceremonial magic, or hoodoo. Magic is one of those areas where you learn more by doing and fucking up than anything else, I think.

 
Knowing my luck, I probably will end up being some sort of weird cross-tradition mashup and messing with all the systems... fortunately, I actually agree that screwing things up does teach alot!

Folk magic actually does sound like what I'm looking for. I just found a good link describing it- http://altreligion.about.com/od/glossary/a/Folk-Magic.htm- and the way it's described sounds exactly like the style I'd like to work with. Thank you for this!

And thanks to everyone for their help! I appreciated all the advice I got, it was really encouraging. :)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 04:08:33 pm by Lana288 »

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 5028
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 931
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2014, 04:23:33 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;147697
I should quickly say that I don't see anything wrong with money spells if you're in poverty, love spells if you're lonely, or curses if someone's actively (and purposefully) harming you. I just think that the situations that you'd use magic like that would be far and few between... (if one was lucky, of course). With that in mind, I'm looking for something to use in everyday life, not just once in a blue moon.


Magic is just a tool like any other.

If I think it's legitimate to get a job to get money, I think it's legitimate to do a spell to get money, y'know?  I don't have to be impoverished to want that sort of thing.

Magic isn't a tool of last resort; magic is just a tool.  Sometimes it's a bad tool for a given purpose (a tidiness spell is not as effective as picking up the crap off the floor), sometimes it works best in concert with other tools (money-drawing spells at the same time as looking for work), but it's just a tool.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2014, 05:54:05 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;147804
Knowing my luck, I probably will end up being some sort of weird cross-tradition mashup and messing with all the systems... fortunately, I actually agree that screwing things up does teach alot!

Folk magic actually does sound like what I'm looking for. I just found a good link describing it- http://altreligion.about.com/od/glossary/a/Folk-Magic.htm- and the way it's described sounds exactly like the style I'd like to work with. Thank you for this!

And thanks to everyone for their help! I appreciated all the advice I got, it was really encouraging. :)


It's not a bad thing to wind up working with different methods. Magic, as Darkhawk said, is just a tool. You use what works.  And chances are you'll get burned once or twice along the way, but common sense usually prevents any huge disasters.

No problem! I love magic and like to see people explore it.

Elementalist

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 59
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 03:58:58 am »
Quote from: Balticdragon;147639

My first question; why magic? I can't seem to get a firm grasp on it. What should magic be used for, and in what circumstances?

My second question involves not knowing anything about any magical systems.

Thanks for your help!

 
Your post contains a lot of things I struggled with myself in the beginning. I liked the idea of magic but couldn't see a practical use for it. I read a lot about the various types and didn't click with any of them. Yet I wanted a magical element to my life. I'll just share with you the answers I found for myself.

What to use magic for? It's part of daily life, a way to connect meaningfully to the energies that abound in our world. A practical system for working with nature and all that it contains because I want to connect deeply with the unseen aspects of life.

I went searching for a magical system and did not feel affinity for any of the major ones out there. They weren't intuitive enough, or they were too ritualistic or they didn't focus on the aspects I wanted to focus on. I ended up creating my own. I've always been very good at manifesting with mind over matter, sometimes getting a result in as little as 24hrs. This told me I had a way with energy and what I wanted to do was create a framework around that and be in contact with the elemental realms. So I meditated, and built up little rituals and workings over time.

These little workings started off being extensions of my usual manifesting....oh! I want to work in this industry, okay well I'll put it out there. But this time I'll study some herb lore, burn incense and more powerfully charge my focus on this desire.

I spent a year in a garden, learning the ways of nature, the cycle of the season's and watching the natural cycles of the plants and insects that inhabit it. I learnt how to work with the natural fertility of soil, recycle plant material in powerful ways and create self-seeding ecosystems.

I spent two years studying natural perfumery, learning the various properties of essential oils and scents and how to combine them and infuse them with intention. I spent several years studying the making of salves, healing lotions and balms.

And it kept going on from there. Magic is used for celebration of life, acknowledging the cycles which influence us, but to which most of humanity are now dead to. To focus my intentions for myself and my personal development and to ensure success in my projects by moving the energy ahead of me before I engage in the physical action of it. For me, magic is just a more meaningful way to live in the same way that prayer and charity are for others.

Wind

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 36
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2014, 01:16:03 am »
Quote from: Balticdragon;147639
What I believe I am looking for is a magical system that covers practical, everyday situations, is 'safe' (I have no desire to summon spirits, and I don't want to try and cast... darker... spells), and that has a system to invite diety into the magic when appropriate. Anything come to mind?

Thanks for your help!

You're going to have to decide what is right for you. To start you off though, try studying candle magic or incense magic - I picked them because they're beginners and cheap. Then you can move to crystals and usually either runes or tarot for magical systems. You can also start looking through bookstores to decide what you want to be - ie a kitchen witch who makes things, someone into ritual, wiccan or not wiccan etc. If you start looking through magic books I think you will find that you are drawn to somethings and not others.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 01:44:10 am by SunflowerP »

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Looking for Magical System
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2014, 02:18:46 am »
Quote from: Wind;164179
You're going to have to decide what is right for you. To start you off though, try studying candle magic or incense magic - I picked them because they're beginners and cheap. Then you can move to crystals and usually either runes or tarot for magical systems. You can also start looking through bookstores to decide what you want to be - ie a kitchen witch who makes things, someone into ritual, wiccan or not wiccan etc. If you start looking through magic books I think you will find that you are drawn to somethings and not others.

 
I don't usually think of those as magical systems to much as they are magical technologies. I can do candle magic six different ways, and a carved and dressed seven day candle is from a very different magical system than lighting eight white tealights is different than one black and one white taper during a ritual.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
2268 Views
Last post July 20, 2011, 05:52:39 am
by Micheál
1 Replies
1558 Views
Last post July 22, 2011, 12:40:01 pm
by Starglade
9 Replies
2046 Views
Last post January 23, 2012, 10:39:35 pm
by mandrina
84 Replies
7460 Views
Last post June 17, 2012, 09:28:51 am
by StudiodeKadent
20 Replies
2284 Views
Last post March 09, 2015, 01:12:58 am
by Aett of Cups

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 26
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal