collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 19 October 2020: $556 donated. Only $154 more needed! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* Recent Posts

Author Topic: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...  (Read 3556 times)

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2016, 05:58:27 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188812
Well, all right, let's first define beauty. Here I am talking about god-given beauty: the drop-dead gorgeous person whose life is a cakewalk from birth to early middle-age, when the looks begin to fade: beauty is worthless, because then it becomes a curse, especially for a woman. "Oh, poor thing, once so beautiful ..."
Created beauty - the beauty that one creates by developing one's own style, well, that's priceless - & ageless. By adopting an instantly recognizable style- persona - one does indeed become beautiful - but not in the sense that most people usually mean when they use the word "beauty". Most people mean the god-given kind, which is indeed worthless: what the gods give w/one hand, they take away w/the other. Every myth that I can find has it that we are simply fucked for life & it is our job on earth to puzzle our ways out of the maze. Life is not meant to be a cakewalk.

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention - I am what is called a philosophical pessimist - pessimism not of the simplistic "glass 1/2 full, glass 1/2 empty kind" but of the fully developed kind, as in Schopenhauer's Die Welt als Wille und Idee (sometimes rendered as und Vorstellung) ... The World is not perfect and cannot be made perfect. Were it made perfect, it would not be worth living in: its imperfections, its flaws - immutable - are what give each new generation of people their very reason to live. Life w/o its struggles, its challenges, its miseries would be worthless. Happiness & pleasure are merely distractions from the pain & suffering that are necessary to human growth & understanding.

Life sucks - but it's a good thing that it sucks b/c, if it didn't suck, we'd be cattle - which is what people do become when their lives do not suck too badly: docile, complacent, stupid, herd-like. Witness what has happened in America where there is less than 20% turn out in most elections. In some local elections, the turn out is 4 or 5%. Cattle!

In the end, I'd say that the key to happiness is not getting what you want,no, but learning to like what you've got. Then you can go about getting what you want. It's always easier to get what you want from a strong and secure position: I'm OK here, doesn't really matter if I don't get that, would be nice if I did, but I'll be fine if I don't ...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 11:32:55 pm by SunflowerP »
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2016, 05:59:40 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188812
Well, all right, let's first define beauty. Here I am talking about god-given beauty: the drop-dead gorgeous person whose life is a cakewalk from birth to early middle-age, when the looks begin to fade: beauty is worthless, because then it becomes a curse, especially for a woman. "Oh, poor thing, once so beautiful ..."

Also cars are worthless, because eventually they break down, regardless of whether or you use or benefit from them in the mean time, right?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2016, 08:36:33 pm »
Quote from: Jack;188847
Also cars are worthless, because eventually they break down, regardless of whether or you use or benefit from them in the mean time, right?

 
No, you actually do benefit from the car. The beauty, no ... OK, fine, the good looks open doors for you, get you laid, put money in your pocket = great things, right? Perhaps. What happens when those good looks fade? You can't get new good looks, can you? You can get a new car. Meanwhile, you've become dependent upon your now non-existent charms. Nobody's falling all over him/herself to help you anymore. The opportunities dry up. This starts happening in your early 30s, if you're a woman - early 40s, if you're a man. Now what do you do? Hide? Did you save up your money? I hope so. It's not going to come in the way it did.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2016, 09:19:24 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188854
No, you actually do benefit from the car. The beauty, no ... OK, fine, the good looks open doors for you, get you laid, put money in your pocket = great things, right? Perhaps. What happens when those good looks fade? You can't get new good looks, can you? You can get a new car. Meanwhile, you've become dependent upon your now non-existent charms. Nobody's falling all over him/herself to help you anymore. The opportunities dry up. This starts happening in your early 30s, if you're a woman - early 40s, if you're a man. Now what do you do? Hide? Did you save up your money? I hope so. It's not going to come in the way it did.
Madonna actually wrote a song about that. It's pretty well-known advice.

Really it's like this: lots of traits are transitory. People have careers based on beauty, like modeling or acting, or based on other transitory traits like athletic prowess. Once those skills fade, you do something else. That doesn't mean those traits were worthless while you had them.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2016, 09:57:18 pm »
Quote from: Jack;188855
Madonna actually wrote a song about that. It's pretty well-known advice.

Really it's like this: lots of traits are transitory. People have careers based on beauty, like modeling or acting, or based on other transitory traits like athletic prowess. Once those skills fade, you do something else. That doesn't mean those traits were worthless while you had them.

 
Well, people in general are so transfixed by the chimera of physical beauty that they will not let go of it, despite the countless examples of the misery that befalls the former beauties ... I have tried to make it clear that I believe that the one great value to any individual life is its very individuality, not its adherence to standards of symmetry set in Ancient Greece and mercilessly imposed ever since. A career that does not express the nature and character of the individual is worthless, no matter how much money it brings in - money means nothing when the soul is being starved and suffocated. Persona is merely expression and must be tooled to suit its subject - not to meet the expectations/desires of its observers. A great actor like Charles Laughton could not make it in today's superficial pig-sty of a World. Sad, sad, sad ...
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2016, 10:43:37 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188859
A great actor like Charles Laughton could not make it in today's superficial pig-sty of a World. Sad, sad, sad ...

Which is why Steve Buscemi and Paul Giamatti don't have careers, of course.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2016, 10:55:45 pm »
Quote from: Jack;188862
Which is why Steve Buscemi and Paul Giamatti don't have careers, of course.

 
They do - but not in the way that Laughton did. Laughton was as big a star as any. He was an A-list star.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2016, 12:39:06 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188863
They do - but not in the way that Laughton did. Laughton was as big a star as any. He was an A-list star.

 
Yes, it's tragic that Hollywood has moved toward judging men the way it has always judged women.

Though as long as there've been movies, studios have been trying to keep actors in the narrow box in which the public recognizes them. It's hard for almost any actor to break out of it once they're typecast.

Ooh, how about Sylvester Stallone?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2016, 02:36:33 am »
Quote from: Jack;188865
Yes, it's tragic that Hollywood has moved toward judging men the way it has always judged women.

Though as long as there've been movies, studios have been trying to keep actors in the narrow box in which the public recognizes them. It's hard for almost any actor to break out of it once they're typecast.

Ooh, how about Sylvester Stallone?

Stallone - good example. But he invented a new category of star, didn't he? One that Arnie fit into, then that Belgian fellow for a little while, but Stallone really pretty much invented the category - the inarticulate, semi-literate common mook who bulks up and beats up bad guys, whether human or alien, from Rocky to the Terminator - Popeye come to life. Rocky even had an Olive Oyl in the form of Talia Shire.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 02:37:18 am by DIASPORA-1963 »
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2016, 02:51:08 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188866
Stallone - good example. But he invented a new category of star, didn't he? One that Arnie fit into, then that Belgian fellow for a little while, but Stallone really pretty much invented the category - the inarticulate, semi-literate common mook who bulks up and beats up bad guys, whether human or alien, from Rocky to the Terminator - Popeye come to life. Rocky even had an Olive Oyl in the form of Talia Shire.

 
Yeah, but he's not handsome. He didn't trade on his beauty. Which, if I recall, was the point? I dunno, I got distracted reading film analysts talking about Creed. I never knew Stallone was nominated for an Oscar for writing as well as for performing for Rocky!
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2016, 04:35:52 am »
Quote from: Jack;188867
Yeah, but he's not handsome. He didn't trade on his beauty. Which, if I recall, was the point? I dunno, I got distracted reading film analysts talking about Creed. I never knew Stallone was nominated for an Oscar for writing as well as for performing for Rocky!

 
It could be argued that he had a beautiful body, if not a beautiful face ... Stallone is a wonderful example of real beauty! He created himself, made himself into a superstar, w/o a pretty face ... There are pretty faces w/talent, of course - but they suffer once they age. Elizabeth Taylor is a perfect example. Great talent who suffered once she was no longer a great beauty.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2016, 11:41:04 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188868
It could be argued that he had a beautiful body, if not a beautiful face ... Stallone is a wonderful example of real beauty! He created himself, made himself into a superstar, w/o a pretty face ...

And now I think the goalposts have definitely been moved. Are you arguing that there is real beauty and fake beauty and that beauty is not actually worthless after all? At which point I think the thread has turned into a Dove soap commercial.

For further discussion: Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, and isn't it telling that none of the examples we can come up with are women?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2016, 11:44:57 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188868
Elizabeth Taylor is a perfect example. Great talent who suffered once she was no longer a great beauty.

... Wait yeah, I think you have suggested that Sylvester Stallone is more truly beautiful than Elizabeth Taylor. At which point beauty may or may not be worthless but it is certainly meaningless.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2016, 02:19:51 pm »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;188771
Me too.

Two song lyrics that spring to mind.

"But no one needs morality when there isn't enough to eat" (New Model Army, The Charge)

Rap critics that say he's "Money Cash Hoes"/I'm from the hood stupid what type of facts are those/If you grew up with holes in your zapatos/You'd celebrate the minute you was having dough (Jay Z, 99 Problems)

 
That sums it up about perfectly, yup.

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2016, 02:41:57 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188783
Interesting - talk to someone about which you don't care ...


I don't have to care about your personal life to enjoy having a conversation with you.

Quote
Beauty is worthless.


To you, yes. Not to others. If it means nothing to you, awesome. That does not make it worthless to the rest of the world.

Quote
What I meant about the sweats was this - I would not choose a job that required me to dress differently than I ordinarily do. If I ordinarily dressed in sweats, then the job I would be applying for would require me to wear them.


Which is fine for you. But a lot of other people want to move up in their field, or into a different one, and that can sometimes require the manipulation of image. "Dress for the job that you want," is fairly standard advice. I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but you seem to be equating your own personal choices and preferences to actual fact.

Quote
If you're going to quote Crowley as some paragon - as you seemed to be doing - then I'd say his fate is pertinent.

 
Okay, 'paragon'? I never said that. I used his definition of magic because we're on a magic discussion and debate board and it's a fairly standard definition. You seem to be defining "low magic" as "not doing anything" and it's confusing to me, so I was trying to clear it up.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1212 Views
Last post September 19, 2011, 02:12:12 pm
by rainbowgrower
5 Replies
2648 Views
Last post January 26, 2014, 08:20:57 am
by luc798
0 Replies
2276 Views
Last post July 02, 2015, 06:04:49 pm
by Nica_13
0 Replies
1637 Views
Last post January 15, 2016, 07:44:50 am
by RecycledBenedict
100 Replies
10244 Views
Last post March 08, 2016, 12:01:06 am
by DIASPORA-1963

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 35
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal