collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 30 October 2020: $610 donated. Only $100 more needed! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* Recent Posts

Author Topic: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...  (Read 3578 times)

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2016, 07:27:40 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;188720
That would be a thing that is your problem, not other people's.

Nobody has a moral obligation to be pretty for you.

 
No, I don't really care what they look like. If it were up to me, I'd let people wear whatever they wanted. But it's not up to me.

You see, by dressing in certain ways, people create problems for themselves: employment, housing, the police, etc.

Leave the issue of fat people & extend it to appearance in general, & a lot of people create problems for themselves just by choosing to wear this or that.

Is it their right to wear this or that? Yes. But "yes" has consequences. & those consequences are not going to go away, no matter how many times one quotes the Constitution or how sanctimoniously one states the latest platitudes.

Look like a thug, & you'll get treated like a thug. Look like a whore, & you'll get treated like a whore. Is it right? No - but that is the way it is, & it isn't of my making.

"You can't judge a book by it's cover" - well, bullshit, people do it all the time, the moment that they clap eyes on someone. Not to realize this is to be foolish.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2016, 08:23:15 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188726
"You can't judge a book by it's cover" - well, bullshit, people do it all the time, the moment that they clap eyes on someone. Not to realize this is to be foolish.

How do you square this with the argument that people should not use glamour or low magic to improve how they are perceived?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 09:13:31 pm »
Quote from: Jack;188731
How do you square this with the argument that people should not use glamour or low magic to improve how they are perceived?

This is paradoxical territory!

By saying that the first step is to figure out who you really are. Once you have done that, if you have the courage, adopt the outward persona that suits it, dressing & acting appropriately, understanding fully well that there is a price to pay. Transgendered people do this all the time.

Very few people manage it, though. Most prefer to conform. Conformity, after all, comes w/many payoffs.

If one has the crust to live life w/o the lucre that comes along w/social conformity, I say all the more power to one. If, however, one does not, I say that it is better to ahead and conform - and not be bitter about it. It's not Society's fault, after all, that one lacked the courage to make a stand.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 09:14:16 pm by DIASPORA-1963 »
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 10:31:43 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188734
Transgendered people do this all the time.

Why yes, yes we do.

But what I was asking was how you personally could say both of those things and mean them, not how they could apply to me. You already know I'm a liar, after all. ;)
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2016, 12:03:40 am »
Quote from: Jack;188739
Why yes, yes we do.

But what I was asking was how you personally could say both of those things and mean them, not how they could apply to me. You already know I'm a liar, after all. ;)

 
Compassion ... Some people have the courage to be themselves, no matter the price that they have to pay - & I cheer for them. Others simply cannot summon that courage, yet I do not despise them: they simply are not ready for it. If Buddha was right, we get more than 1 shot at life - maybe next time. As an admirer of Schopenhauer, I hold that the greatest virtue is indeed compassion: I feel for those who do not fit in and have the courage to stick out, & I feel for those who do not fit in but force themselves to hide w/in, & I even feel for those who do fit in b/c they always remain blind to so much that life has to teach. Life sucks, in some way, for everyone, believe it or not, & it's helpful to remember that.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Redfaery

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1345
  • Total likes: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2016, 12:29:01 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188742
Compassion ... Some people have the courage to be themselves, no matter the price that they have to pay - & I cheer for them. Others simply cannot summon that courage, yet I do not despise them: they simply are not ready for it. If Buddha was right, we get more than 1 shot at life - maybe next time. As an admirer of Schopenhauer, I hold that the greatest virtue is indeed compassion: I feel for those who do not fit in and have the courage to stick out, & I feel for those who do not fit in but force themselves to hide w/in, & I even feel for those who do fit in b/c they always remain blind to so much that life has to teach. Life sucks, in some way, for everyone, believe it or not, & it's helpful to remember that.
I don't follow?
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2016, 01:28:03 am »
Quote from: Redfaery;188748
I don't follow?

 
Life sucks. For everybody. Happiness is a now & then thing - not a permanent condition. Misery, on the other hand, that can be a permanent condition. Even the best off of us are in need of compassion ... It's difficult to show love to the unlovable - but who needs it more, eh? ... In short, I try to take it easy on everyone. I don't always succeed, but I try.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Redfaery

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1345
  • Total likes: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2016, 01:29:52 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188751
Life sucks. For everybody. Happiness is a now & then thing - not a permanent condition. Misery, on the other hand, that can be a permanent condition. Even the best off of us are in need of compassion ... It's difficult to show love to the unlovable - but who needs it more, eh? ... In short, I try to take it easy on everyone. I don't always succeed, but I try.
Ah. Gotcha. Sounds a bit like Buddhism to me. ;)
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2016, 01:37:44 am »
Quote from: Redfaery;188752
Ah. Gotcha. Sounds a bit like Buddhism to me. ;)

 
I keep a small statue of the Joyous Buddha on my altar. I have another of the Doleful Buddha in a box somewhere in my sister's garage. But I prefer the fat little fellow w/his ear to ear smile. This one is setting out on a journey. He's got his bed roll w/him, a water jug, his begging bowl, and he just looks as pleased as possible. If only I could be that confident!
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2016, 10:52:47 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188710
Oh, I would never tell someone not to go ahead & have plastic surgery, but I would wonder why anyone would do such a thing. Beauty is useless b/c it gets things that are worthless - but, if someone yearns for those things, well, go right ahead ...


Worthless to YOU, maybe. I dunno how to break it to you, but some people have gotten quite a bit out of being an attractive person and they seem pretty happy about it.

Quote
But I would go to a job interview in sweats - you see, I would never seek a job that was not in keeping w/ my personality, and, if my personality were the type that would have me wear sweats, then I would be looking for a job that required sweats, so wearing them would be expected of me. I'm a mathematician. Mathematicians tend to wear sports jackets and slacks, which is what I like to wear, anyway.


You're very confusing. You spent a whole post saying "dress better!" and then turn around and go, "except me, I have all my shit together." I am unclear as to what your point is.

Quote
You're quoting Crowley. He died broke in a run-down rooming house, you know - after having inherited & run through a huge fortune. He was a brilliant man - but ...


I am perfectly aware of who I am quoting, thank you. I am also aware of his history. My point was that your definition of magic did not seem very clear, and if you were using one at all like Crowley's then I disagreed with you. The man's fate is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Quote
I'm an ascetic - I keep my wants to a minimum. If nothing else, it allows me the luxury of being lazy. But it also saves me a lot of trouble in other ways - no arguments, no fights, no being all entangled in big affairs. I can spend my time doing math, listening to classical music, looking at art, taking walks, tending to my plants, and petting dogs.

 
Good for you. I don't really care about you, I was trying to have a conversation about what I thought you were talking about, which was the manipulation of image. That is the subject that interests me.

Jabberwocky

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 452
  • Total likes: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2016, 11:10:50 am »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;188687
I have to disagree entirely, if we are in fact talking about magic as "the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with Will" - if I was just learning how to like the shit I already have, why on earth would I take up the practice of magic? Low magic in particular is all about getting stuff that you

Me too.

Two song lyrics that spring to mind.

"But no one needs morality when there isn't enough to eat" (New Model Army, The Charge)

Rap critics that say he's "Money Cash Hoes"/I'm from the hood stupid what type of facts are those/If you grew up with holes in your zapatos/You'd celebrate the minute you was having dough (Jay Z, 99 Problems)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 11:31:47 am by Morag »
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2016, 07:35:00 pm »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;188770
Worthless to YOU, maybe. I dunno how to break it to you, but some people have gotten quite a bit out of being an attractive person and they seem pretty happy about it.



You're very confusing. You spent a whole post saying "dress better!" and then turn around and go, "except me, I have all my shit together." I am unclear as to what your point is.



I am perfectly aware of who I am quoting, thank you. I am also aware of his history. My point was that your definition of magic did not seem very clear, and if you were using one at all like Crowley's then I disagreed with you. The man's fate is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


 
Good for you. I don't really care about you, I was trying to have a conversation about what I thought you were talking about, which was the manipulation of image. That is the subject that interests me.

 
Interesting - talk to someone about which you don't care ...

Ah, well ...

Beauty is worthless.

What I meant about the sweats was this - I would not choose a job that required me to dress differently than I ordinarily do. If I ordinarily dressed in sweats, then the job I would be applying for would require me to wear them.

If you're going to quote Crowley as some paragon - as you seemed to be doing - then I'd say his fate is pertinent.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Jabberwocky

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 452
  • Total likes: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 07:47:09 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188710

You're quoting Crowley. He died broke in a run-down rooming house, you know - after having inherited & run through a huge fortune. He was a brilliant man - but ...

 
Netherwood was hardly run down. Have you seen it?

Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4989
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 885
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 10:34:02 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188783
Interesting - talk to someone about which you don't care ...

 
On a discussion and debate board people are generally primarily hanging out for the discussion and debate.  Who's holding a position and why doesn't matter all that much compared to whether or not the position is well-supported.

So, when you make statements like,

Quote
Beauty is worthless.


people are likely to expect you to back them up with reasoning, support, and logic.  You made the extraordinary claim; your job is also to provide the evidence for it.

If you just mean "I don't give a fig about beauty" then people are going to wonder why you're telling them that, because your personal preferences aren't grounds for a meaningful discussion or a debate.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

DIASPORA-1963

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 245
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lesser Magic & Its Uses ...
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 03:44:31 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;188792
On a discussion and debate board people are generally primarily hanging out for the discussion and debate.  Who's holding a position and why doesn't matter all that much compared to whether or not the position is well-supported.

So, when you make statements like,



people are likely to expect you to back them up with reasoning, support, and logic.  You made the extraordinary claim; your job is also to provide the evidence for it.

If you just mean "I don't give a fig about beauty" then people are going to wonder why you're telling them that, because your personal preferences aren't grounds for a meaningful discussion or a debate.

 
Well, all right, let's first define beauty. Here I am talking about god-given beauty: the drop-dead gorgeous person whose life is a cakewalk from birth to early middle-age, when the looks begin to fade: beauty is worthless, because then it becomes a curse, especially for a woman. "Oh, poor thing, once so beautiful ..."
Created beauty - the beauty that one creates by developing one's own style, well, that's priceless - & ageless. By adopting an instantly recognizable style- persona - one does indeed become beautiful - but not in the sense that most people usually mean when they use the word "beauty". Most people mean the god-given kind, which is indeed worthless: what the gods give w/one hand, they take away w/the other. Every myth that I can find has it that we are simply fucked for life & it is our job on earth to puzzle our ways out of the maze. Life is not meant to be a cakewalk.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1216 Views
Last post September 19, 2011, 02:12:12 pm
by rainbowgrower
5 Replies
2657 Views
Last post January 26, 2014, 08:20:57 am
by luc798
0 Replies
2281 Views
Last post July 02, 2015, 06:04:49 pm
by Nica_13
0 Replies
1642 Views
Last post January 15, 2016, 07:44:50 am
by RecycledBenedict
100 Replies
10274 Views
Last post March 08, 2016, 12:01:06 am
by DIASPORA-1963

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 46
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal