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Author Topic: Is is wise to look at these texts?  (Read 666 times)

Themagicalone

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Is is wise to look at these texts?
« on: October 03, 2013, 11:56:56 am »
http://daoistmagic.com/guide-to-buying-books/

I was trying to find some esoteric Taoist texts involving spiritual power and magic I can learn. Some of these texts seemed to have what I need like healing, defense, learning how to attack and defend myself against sorcerers and entities and telekinesis. However in some of those texts they tell you how to do blood magic, blood sacrifices, sex magic and even stealing the soul of a coma victim? These seems to have good holy magic but some of these magic techniques seem to be unethical or bad. Are these texts are just a collection of any Taoist magic, both good and bad? Shouldn't I question these methods and articles that have unethical or bad stuff in it? What am I reading really, a good book or a bad book? I do know magic can be very dangerous and dabbling into unholy books have consequences. I just want to be sure what I'm reading is good and won't do any harm to me or anyone else. Is there any other Taoist magic and spiritual power books I can read other than this because these methods are more than questionable.

RandallS

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Re: Is is wise to look at these texts?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 06:01:38 pm »
Quote from: Themagicalone;124064
I was trying to find some esoteric Taoist texts involving spiritual power and magic I can learn. Some of these texts seemed to have what I need like healing, defense, learning how to attack and defend myself against sorcerers and entities and telekinesis. However in some of those texts they tell you how to do blood magic, blood sacrifices, sex magic and even stealing the soul of a coma victim? These seems to have good holy magic but some of these magic techniques seem to be unethical or bad.

I'm not familiar with Taoist magic, so I can't comment on the specific books. However, unless these books are somehow making you do magic you consider unethical (which is very unlikely), I don't see a problem. Reading a book on making an atomic bomb and learning how to make one isn't evil even though actually making one and using it would be. Magic isn't any different IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 06:02:14 pm by RandallS »
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Themagicalone

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Re: Is is wise to look at these texts?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 06:25:58 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;124116
I'm not familiar with Taoist magic, so I can't comment on the specific books. However, unless these books are somehow making you do magic you consider unethical (which is very unlikely), I don't see a problem. Reading a book on making an atomic bomb and learning how to make one isn't evil even though actually making one and using it would be. Magic isn't any different IMHO.

 
Well I wouldn't say it's making me do something bad but you should read some of the stuff there. Taoism is obviously not an evil or an unethical religion and is good like most religions. So one would assume that the magic in there is good. But then people also make an argument that there is no such thing as good or evil magic. It's what you do with it. Like with guns. Guns are just tools for good or evil. Same thing with magic. However it sor of begs the question as why is there a book that has you study holy magic and magic used to defend yourself and curing others and yet at the same time, the author has written on how to make a Blood Spirit, Blood Magic, animal sacrifices or stealing souls or something like that. That's why I really wanted to know if these texts are good. Reading an unholy book can do bad things and corrupt someones mind and I wanted to be certain if these texts were good because it does have good and seemingly holy magic but has strange stuff in it. I guess it's just a "collection" of ANY Taoist magic collected over the ages whether it's good or bad ethical or unethical.

Jenett

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Re: Is is wise to look at these texts?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 07:53:20 pm »
Quote from: Themagicalone;124122
Well I wouldn't say it's making me do something bad but you should read some of the stuff there. Taoism is obviously not an evil or an unethical religion and is good like most religions. So one would assume that the magic in there is good. But then people also make an argument that there is no such thing as good or evil magic. It's what you do with it. Like with guns. Guns are just tools for good or evil. Same thing with magic. However it sor of begs the question as why is there a book that has you study holy magic and magic used to defend yourself and curing others and yet at the same time, the author has written on how to make a Blood Spirit, Blood Magic, animal sacrifices or stealing souls or something like that. That's why I really wanted to know if these texts are good. Reading an unholy book can do bad things and corrupt someones mind and I wanted to be certain if these texts were good because it does have good and seemingly holy magic but has strange stuff in it. I guess it's just a "collection" of ANY Taoist magic collected over the ages whether it's good or bad ethical or unethical.

 
I don't know enough about Taoist magic to comment on the specifics (and tonight is not the night I'm going to try and fix that, or even this week.) But you can do with this what I'd suggest you do with any information source.

1) Who made the collection? What's their background? What's their goal?

If you can't tell, that's a warning sign. (Doesn't mean the information's automatically bad or a problem, but it doesn't help you sort things out.) And you can't tell if *they* actually know what they're talking about or suggesting.

2) Is what you're finding within the mainstream of its subject area?

Again, I know little enough about Taoism or Taoist magic, but I suspect there's reliable resources out there that will talk about "X thing is common and accepted and Y thing is not." You may have to poke around for this.

(For example, my example with Wicca is that if you see someone who identifies as Gardnerian or Alexandrian charging for training, something is Very Weird. Those things are not acceptable in those traditions. It's a somewhat obscure thing, but it's regularly mentioned, by multiple sources, once you go looking.)

3) If you see mismatches, who do they benefit?

In the example I gave above, someone who wants you to give them money is going to benefit if you do - that's pretty clear cut, and it explains why they might tell you it's okay. In the case you're talking about, it's a lot more nebulous: it could be a bad compilation. It could be that you've wandered into someone's own personal little fiefdom, and they have screwed up ethics compared to the rest of the practice. It could be that there's something else going on that will take more data to sort out.

The power of words
You're right that reading stuff can change the reader - that's the power of words. However, reading briefly (to see what something covers) is usually not the huge problem, where immersing yourself might be.

In general, especially if working with a possibly unreliable source (like you've got), the advice is to look at something you *can* test or research, and see how it measures up. And then expand from there, so that by the time you get to the stuff that's harder to check, you've got several benchmarks about reliability. So I'd pick something more straightforward (an earlier part of the work, one that's definitely more in the mainstream of practice) and do a close reading on it, and see how it matches up with known reliable sources or instructions. And pay attention to where it doesn't match up, and if there's a pattern there.

For example, someone who's going to encourage you to misuse magic later may not be obvious about it early on, but they are probably going to say at least *some* things that lead to that conclusion. Maybe fairly subtle things, but if you look at the source carefully, you can spot them.
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Themagicalone

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Re: Is is wise to look at these texts?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 08:38:23 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;124135
I don't know enough about Taoist magic to comment on the specifics (and tonight is not the night I'm going to try and fix that, or even this week.) But you can do with this what I'd suggest you do with any information source.

1) Who made the collection? What's their background? What's their goal?

If you can't tell, that's a warning sign. (Doesn't mean the information's automatically bad or a problem, but it doesn't help you sort things out.) And you can't tell if *they* actually know what they're talking about or suggesting.

2) Is what you're finding within the mainstream of its subject area?

Again, I know little enough about Taoism or Taoist magic, but I suspect there's reliable resources out there that will talk about "X thing is common and accepted and Y thing is not." You may have to poke around for this.

(For example, my example with Wicca is that if you see someone who identifies as Gardnerian or Alexandrian charging for training, something is Very Weird. Those things are not acceptable in those traditions. It's a somewhat obscure thing, but it's regularly mentioned, by multiple sources, once you go looking.)

3) If you see mismatches, who do they benefit?

In the example I gave above, someone who wants you to give them money is going to benefit if you do - that's pretty clear cut, and it explains why they might tell you it's okay. In the case you're talking about, it's a lot more nebulous: it could be a bad compilation. It could be that you've wandered into someone's own personal little fiefdom, and they have screwed up ethics compared to the rest of the practice. It could be that there's something else going on that will take more data to sort out.

The power of words
You're right that reading stuff can change the reader - that's the power of words. However, reading briefly (to see what something covers) is usually not the huge problem, where immersing yourself might be.

In general, especially if working with a possibly unreliable source (like you've got), the advice is to look at something you *can* test or research, and see how it measures up. And then expand from there, so that by the time you get to the stuff that's harder to check, you've got several benchmarks about reliability. So I'd pick something more straightforward (an earlier part of the work, one that's definitely more in the mainstream of practice) and do a close reading on it, and see how it matches up with known reliable sources or instructions. And pay attention to where it doesn't match up, and if there's a pattern there.

For example, someone who's going to encourage you to misuse magic later may not be obvious about it early on, but they are probably going to say at least *some* things that lead to that conclusion. Maybe fairly subtle things, but if you look at the source carefully, you can spot them.

 
I suppose so. From what I read on the background of the person, he seems fine, but I'll never be certain. I have had people in the past who knew magic and encouraged me to misuse is, which of course I refused. Magic can be extremely dangerous if misued or performed incorecctly. I think of it as like a science experiment, like with mixing chemicals. Adding too much of something or adding another chemical can do destruction. I was wondering if anyone read these books or read the contents of it. Taoist magic is something I really want to learn but it is difficult finding certain sources in English or finding anyone that knows it. I need to learn some soon. It's just so difficult to trust sources these days. Like, you might find a book that seems good and turns out to corrupt when you read it. I just can't be certain. The books are fairly expensive too, like over 100 dollars so I don't if it's really good information or it's just overpriced.

All I want is something reliable. Some magic and spritual power from the Taoist faith. Of course I respect all of the good faiths but I just perfer Taoism and learning it's spiritual techniques. I do appreciate the comments as any information is good.

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