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Author Topic: Help Me Please  (Read 1117 times)

Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2018, 12:34:31 pm »
Thanks for your help people,

You've certainly given me plenty to think about concerning forum rules, but as of the reason I posted on here, very little. Yesterday the energies gave me extreme stomach pain and the inside of my stomach feels like it is burned or inflamed. But it's not happening to you people, same as it's not happening to that quack exorcist I spoke to, so why should you care?

Bye.

keen

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2018, 01:01:28 pm »
Thanks for your help people,

You've certainly given me plenty to think about concerning forum rules, but as of the reason I posted on here, very little. Yesterday the energies gave me extreme stomach pain and the inside of my stomach feels like it is burned or inflamed. But it's not happening to you people, same as it's not happening to that quack exorcist I spoke to, so why should you care?

Bye.

You're probably gone, but I've encountered folks like you in other online gathering places for minoritiy demographics of various stripes, and my questions to you are the same I've asked of them, as well:

What, exactly, are you looking for from us? What answers did you want to hear that we aren't giving you? Why do you think lashing out at people who are trying to ascertain what a stranger on the internet needs so they can even begin to try and help going to make us want to keep trying to engage you?
rotwork: on devotion to lesser-known and un-known gods, transplanting genus loci, art, and modernity

Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 02:10:53 pm »
You're probably gone, but I've encountered folks like you in other online gathering places for minoritiy demographics of various stripes, and my questions to you are the same I've asked of them, as well:

What, exactly, are you looking for from us? What answers did you want to hear that we aren't giving you? Why do you think lashing out at people who are trying to ascertain what a stranger on the internet needs so they can even begin to try and help going to make us want to keep trying to engage you?

Thanks for the input.
Basically, I have seen through a lot of the lies of organised re!igion. Let me say first that the Christian God DOES NOT EXIST. He is a sanitised version of the real thing, which is 100% Pagan, and is beyond morality. The Catholic Church is very much also a Pagan organisation, but it puts up the false image of being Christian for the benefit of the punters, the majority of which would baulk at being Pagan. The Church is at times very much at the darker end of the occultic spectrum, and its element of paedo priests are not merely an abberation but are part of its raison e'tre going back to ancient Babylon and Rome. My spiritual experiences have not been of Jesus or angels but of something much more ancient and mysterious. One episode I remember is when I was alone in church. 'Something' invisible entered my torso, and (not to go into too much detail) there was a sexual element to it. In short, it was Pagan.

And so I come on here to try to get a handle on it, because I haven't a clue why this is happening to me, and because it is so occultic I can only talk about it via the relative anonymity of the internet. Though I realise that it is beyond the scope of that too. I get heavy energies entering my head, but I don't know where they are coming from. They flow through me to my hands and feet where it seems they leave the body. I haven't experienced any visions or voices, but can feel 'invisible people' around me.

So pardon me if I seem agitated.
Best wishes,
Tannhauser

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2018, 03:43:25 pm »
Thanks for the input.
Basically, I have seen through a lot of the lies of organised re!igion. Let me say first that the Christian God DOES NOT EXIST. He is a sanitised version of the real thing, which is 100% Pagan, and is beyond morality. The Catholic Church is very much also a Pagan organisation, but it puts up the false image of being Christian for the benefit of the punters, the majority of which would baulk at being Pagan. The Church is at times very much at the darker end of the occultic spectrum, and its element of paedo priests are not merely an abberation but are part of its raison e'tre going back to ancient Babylon and Rome. My spiritual experiences have not been of Jesus or angels but of something much more ancient and mysterious. One episode I remember is when I was alone in church. 'Something' invisible entered my torso, and (not to go into too much detail) there was a sexual element to it. In short, it was Pagan.

And so I come on here to try to get a handle on it, because I haven't a clue why this is happening to me, and because it is so occultic I can only talk about it via the relative anonymity of the internet. Though I realise that it is beyond the scope of that too. I get heavy energies entering my head, but I don't know where they are coming from. They flow through me to my hands and feet where it seems they leave the body. I haven't experienced any visions or voices, but can feel 'invisible people' around me.

So pardon me if I seem agitated.
Best wishes,
Tannhauser

I might suggest a few things to help you get a handle on these jarring experiences. Just ignore the church for a minute. You can navigate this and learn about these new possibilities without referencing your bad experiences or being reactionary. (Mostly I'm trying to help you from getting banned. There are Christians here, and its codified in the rules to have respect for other faiths, Christianity and Catholicism among them. And if not respect, at the very least a certain level of civility when speaking about them.)

First, I would recommend you reach out to a diviner of some sort. A tarot or rune reader or something like that, someone that can be vouched for in their practice. They might help you establish some mode of discernment with your experiences, to help you figure out what messages are coming from where, what is important for you to listen to and what is merely white noise. I would also recommend you figure out some way to practice discernment for yourself, merely as a method of self-defense. Not all information is created equal, and just because it's coming from somewhere you can't see, doesn't mean that it's going to be correct or with your best interests in mind.

You might also seek out a religious authority figure of the pagan variety. A priest or priestess somewhere might be willing to speak with you about these issues, or at least help direct you to other useful resources. (Like reputable diviners.)

If you're having visions or visitations by particular spirits or divinities, I would personally go to them directly. Ask for clarity, ask for omens, messages, whatever it is you think you would be most receptive to, so that you can get a better idea of what you're supposed to actually do with these experiences, and get it straight from the horse's mouth. You don't need to get on your knees and pray to them, especially if they haven't given you a reason or directive to begin worship, but be approach them with respect. You might be surprised at the answers you get.

The last thing I'd recommend is going through some of the beginner's forums here, and look especially hard at the book recommendations. (Or try a local new age/magical bookstore. Hell, even ask the staff if you can muster the courage - they sometimes know a thing or two.) The one book I'd suggest you look into getting is Talking to the Spirits by Kenaz Filan and Raven Kaldera, both respected spirit workers and long-time polytheists. I own the book myself, and it's a tremendous resource that covers most of the bases.
rotwork: on devotion to lesser-known and un-known gods, transplanting genus loci, art, and modernity

Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2018, 06:59:16 pm »
Many thanks for your help.

I have come to realise that in these experiences my ancestors are trying to get my attention concerning Paganism and there is going to come a time when I will have to embrace it fully. You ask me to respect Christians but I don't understand why I should. They do not respect Paganism and equate it with Satanism. I know, because I am Christian, though not for much longer. I cannot separate Christ from the dogmas and doctrines of the Church. I will always view him as a punitive, harsh character and that is never going to change. It's the result of years of indoctrination. Christians can be pretty disgusting, closed minded people who have a very narrow world view. I don't see why I should respect that. I am being told that everything's connected, yet the Church continues to keep people in ignorance and states that there is no salvation outside of it. The time it continues to hold an important place in my life is fast coming to an end.

I cannot any longer ignore the reality that Paganism is the truth. A long time ago, everyone on Earth believed in the same things. Then three monotheistic religions got started and everything changed.

I won't be a part of their culture of fear and ignorance any more.

Once again, thanks for your help.
Best wishes,
Tannhauser

SunflowerP

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 02:46:53 am »
You ask me to respect Christians but I don't understand why I should.

A Reminder:
Tannhauser,

What you do elsewhere is your business.. But the reason you should when posting on TC is because we have rules requiring religious tolerance (they don't require respect, but they do require civility), and a rule against 'blanket condemnations of peoples, cultures, or religions'.

You haven't (quite) violated them, so this isn't a warning/strike, it's a response to your implied question.

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EclecticWheel

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 09:10:35 am »
Many thanks for your help.

I have come to realise that in these experiences my ancestors are trying to get my attention concerning Paganism and there is going to come a time when I will have to embrace it fully. You ask me to respect Christians but I don't understand why I should. They do not respect Paganism and equate it with Satanism. I know, because I am Christian, though not for much longer. I cannot separate Christ from the dogmas and doctrines of the Church. I will always view him as a punitive, harsh character and that is never going to change. It's the result of years of indoctrination. Christians can be pretty disgusting, closed minded people who have a very narrow world view. I don't see why I should respect that. I am being told that everything's connected, yet the Church continues to keep people in ignorance and states that there is no salvation outside of it. The time it continues to hold an important place in my life is fast coming to an end.

I cannot any longer ignore the reality that Paganism is the truth. A long time ago, everyone on Earth believed in the same things. Then three monotheistic religions got started and everything changed.

I won't be a part of their culture of fear and ignorance any more.

Once again, thanks for your help.
Best wishes,
Tannhauser

Some of my experiences with Christians have been negative as apparently have yours.  On the other hand I am associated with a church in the Episcopal tradition and we have had a member host interfaith labyrinth walks in which various of my neo-pagan friends and people of other religious backgrounds participated peacefully alongside Christians and a Christian clergy person.

Not all Christians have the view you are asserting they have, nor do they all read the Bible through a single theological lens.

When I initially left a particular faith tradition I was very angry at Christians and Christianity, but my take on those matters was gradually transformed through learning and encountering Christians of various traditions and viewpoints.  There is even at least one other member of my parish who is syncretic with neo-pagan traditions.

I do hope you come through this difficult period with a measure of peace and understanding of your experiences.  I will keep you in my thoughts.
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Jenett

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 09:22:26 am »
And so I come on here to try to get a handle on it, because I haven't a clue why this is happening to me, and because it is so occultic I can only talk about it via the relative anonymity of the internet. Though I realise that it is beyond the scope of that too. I get heavy energies entering my head, but I don't know where they are coming from. They flow through me to my hands and feet where it seems they leave the body. I haven't experienced any visions or voices, but can feel 'invisible people' around me.

To be blunt: we are not mindreaders here, or at least not reliably. If you want help with a specific thing, you need to say so, not blame people for not answering questions you haven't asked until now.

And you're new here, which means you don't have an existing history of possibly helping other people, or contributing to the community. We know nothing about you except a handful of posts: it is significantly more effort to offer ideas and help someone unknown than someone who's an ongoing part of the community.

From there, of course, people will decide whether they can answer, based on their background and knowledge, available time, and whether or not they feel they want to spend that time answering you.

(Frankly, I am not inclined to spend an extended time helping someone who repeatedly chooses to broadly insult me and people I care about. On the other hand I am also a librarian and priestess, and helping people with information is a thing I do. So you're getting the 'off the top of my head' version here, not the more extensive time hunting up links and additional resources I might offer in other circumstances.)

Your experiences
As I said already, your experiences are not unique or even particularly unusual. If you read threads here, you will find a lot of information that will help you start to put what's going on with you in context, and from other people who've had very similar experiences. Reading threads in the "Pagan Religions" section of the forum in general would be where to start.

Some of these things are personal, and people may not talk in detail about them on a public message board: sometimes you have to read between the lines, or piece together things from a series of posts.

Bluntly, however, it is not the job of most Pagan priests or priestesses (or individuals who don't identify as priest/esses) to fix your stuff for you. That's not how it works in most modern Pagan religions. They - we - may decide to help, we may not, based on our own calling and commitments. But one of the costs of not having a professional clergy is that people are doing a lot of other things with their time (and have to: most Pagan clergy also have day jobs, family or personal commitments, and commitments to our established religious communities and connections.)

Now: I somewhat disagree with Keen's advice. I don't think you're in a good place to make an evaluation about finding a divination reader or priest/ess from the Pagan community. There are a lot of great folks out there, but there are also people (as there are in any group of people) who are scam artists or claim more expertise than they actually have, or may look like they can help, but not be able to.

The people who might actually be able to help are more likely to a) not necessarily easy to find, b) already be busy, c) have existing to commitments to people they're already working with/helping and d) you probably need to clarify what you're looking for/wanting a bit more anyway.

I think your best tip is to look at material from a range of sources (threads here, and a couple of books). Threads here or other thoughtful forums have the benefit that you can see multiple reactions to the same presented information: there is much less risk of getting trapped by someone with their own agenda or who just isn't as competent as they think.

Then take it as slowly as you can: add new practices slowly (one at a time, so you can see what the effects are), find methods of self-awareness and reflection that work for you (journalling is a good place to start), ask specific questions when you have them, and seek a range of answers, don't run with the first response you get.

In terms of books, I would recommend Ivo Dominguez's Spirit Speak: I find it a bit better as a starting place than than the Filan and Kaldera book (which does have some good things, but also has some practices and approaches that are not as good a starting place if you're new or dealing with unsettling experiences.)

I also recommend, as I recommend to basically everyone who is starting to look at Pagan, magical, or related practices, dealing with new spiritual experiences, a steady practice in centering, grounding, shielding, and psychic hygeine. (basically: discerning what is you, what is not you, and keeping other people's stuff from clinging to you.) You can find articles on all of these on my Seeking site (in this case, linked from the "Doing" page)

Also of use is a blog post Darkhawk has made, based on a discussion here, about evaluating spiritual experiences.

Doing these things will allow you to start making more sense of what you're feeling. Chances are good that some of it is other beings, wanting to connect and make contact, some of it is your reaction to that (which is 'real' but may be 'noise' that isn't helpful in taking next steps) and some of it might be something else. Just because something doesn't have a body doesn't mean it's right or has your best interests at heart, so working out discernment and evaluating your experiences as thoroughly as possible are critical steps.

There might be some other suggestions possible if you are up for sharing a general location (community sources, including stores and groups, vary widely by location. Who knows, maybe you're somewhere that someone can highly recommend a resource with relevant expertise.)

Likewise, if you have a specific thing you would like help with, being clear about that would help. (i.e. "I am having X experience, it makes me feel physically uncomfortable' has one set of possible answers, but "I am feeling drawn to Y, and I don't know how to explore it" might be a rather different set of answers.)
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Darkhawk

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 10:06:55 am »
A long time ago, everyone on Earth believed in the same things.

Cite?
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Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 10:51:41 am »
Cite?
Paganism. Pantheism. Respect for Nature. Everything is divine. Then along came the three monotheistic religions: Christianity/Islam/Judaism. One God. Man's dominion over Nature. Nothing is divine except God. We are all worthless, sinful pieces of shit.

Can you see the point I am trying to make?

Redfaery

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 11:03:45 am »
Paganism. Pantheism. Respect for Nature. Everything is divine. Then along came the three monotheistic religions: Christianity/Islam/Judaism. One God. Man's dominion over Nature. Nothing is divine except God. We are all worthless, sinful pieces of shit.

Can you see the point I am trying to make?
...not really? I mean, there are non monotheistic traditions that take a pretty negative view of the world too. You're still simplifying things way too much.

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KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 11:27:10 am »
Why are you defending Christianity? I can assure you, Christians have nothing positive to say about Paganism.

Darkhawk

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Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 11:34:39 am »
Paganism. Pantheism. Respect for Nature. Everything is divine. Then along came the three monotheistic religions: Christianity/Islam/Judaism. One God. Man's dominion over Nature. Nothing is divine except God. We are all worthless, sinful pieces of shit.

Can you see the point I am trying to make?

That you know nothing about the variety of ancient religions?  Yes.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Redfaery

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2018, 11:38:59 am »
Why are you defending Christianity? I can assure you, Christians have nothing positive to say about Paganism.
To be fair, I'm not pagan. I'm Buddhist.

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KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Tannhauser

Re: Help Me Please
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 11:59:40 am »
That you know nothing about the variety of ancient religions?  Yes.

Piss off smartass.

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