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Author Topic: "Pagan" pet peeves  (Read 27123 times)

SunflowerP

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"Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2011, 05:02:28 am »
Quote from: SariusImpariul;10908
I generally prefer it when people try to care for their health.

 
You don't get a preference, because it's their[/] health and their business, not yours.

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BunnyMaz

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2011, 07:36:09 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;10910
You don't get a preference, because it's their[/] health and their business, not yours.

Sunflower

 
Indeed.  If there is a chance I'll be swapping bodily fluids with another person, of course I expect the right to ask for reassurance that they are as safe as I am.  But that requirement doesn't change depending on how many people they've slept with.  More than zero carries a risk. No one can guarantee that the previous partners of the partners of their partners never exposed themselves to a sexual health risk.

But if I'm not going to be getting down and dirty, their sexual history means absolutely nothing to me, and is frankly none of my business.  There is a difference between "I prefer my sexual partners to practice safe sex and regular testing" and "no one should have sex with more people than I deem appropriate".

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2011, 09:20:29 am »
Quote from: BunnyMaz;10912
Indeed.  If there is a chance I'll be swapping bodily fluids with another person, of course I expect the right to ask for reassurance that they are as safe as I am.  But that requirement doesn't change depending on how many people they've slept with.  More than zero carries a risk. No one can guarantee that the previous partners of the partners of their partners never exposed themselves to a sexual health risk.

But if I'm not going to be getting down and dirty, their sexual history means absolutely nothing to me, and is frankly none of my business.  There is a difference between "I prefer my sexual partners to practice safe sex and regular testing" and "no one should have sex with more people than I deem appropriate".

Look back in my posts. When did I actually say at any point of time I tell anyone not to sleep around hmm? In the end it's just an assumption a lot of you have made because I used a few words that riled a few people up. What I spoke about to begin with had nothing to do with the loose legged- they where just being used as an example. Of course when questioned I would say what I think on sleeping around, but who ever said at any point that what someone thinks about something if they disagree with it that they must harass people or attack them about it hmm? When did I actually say at ANY point of time that I EVER tried to change someone from not being loose legged? Also, remember because I mentioned it in my first post only as an example to point out how silly gender discrimination is that means it was never mentioned at any point of time as any sort of pet peeve.

Quote from: SariusImpariul;10731

This pet peeve isn't pagan related but it still always bugs me- when women start insulting men as a whole in what sounds like every single way they can think of all because they are upset over what ONE MAN did- as if one man symbolizes the ENTIRE GENDER. I don't look at some whore of a woman then go 'oh because that woman is a total slut- all women are sluts!' and when I try to confront the same woman that spout all that hateful stuff they say I don't count as a man because I'm gay. When did being gay mean my junk was clipped off? Last I checked it was still there.

While my words may have seemed crude to you I could have used anything as an example, I could have even used clowns or farmers as an example. What is chosen to show that not everyone of the same gender is the same thing doesn't matter. It wasn't chosen as a pet peeve, or as something negative. What the negative was? Thinking everyone of that gender is the same thing due to one current experience with one person or acting like they all are. People trying to make excuses for gender discrimination is also wrong. THAT was the pet peeve, if anyone read it as me having some sort of pet peeve or or terrible dislike or hate for the loose legged misread what I wrote. If how I wrote confused anyone and made them think otherwise then I apologize. I do try my best to be clear.

So to repeat everything in this post as summed up as I can.

I never said at any time I harass the loose legged or go out of my way to bother them.
Not liking something is not the same as purposely trying to bother people about it.
The fact that I don't agree with it was only mentioned because someone assumed I had mentioned those words to be discriminating and/or hateful- when it was never my intentions.
I could have used anything as an example, using it in the example didn't mean it was a pet peeve. An example is an example.

The negative I was saying in the first place that was non pagan if you re read that are those who gender discriminate in words that would rather make excuses then to fess up that they are being bias. One person does not equal the whole gender.
If anyone thought I said it was a pet peeve of mine then that is wrong.
I try to be clear in what I say. If the way I write confused anyone or made them think I hate loose legged people I apologize.

..I feel so stupid trying to explain this. I have no idea why people here decided to jump to the worst conclusion they could think of about me. Still, I wont take back that while I don't dislike the loose legged I still don't agree with it. Not everyone needs to agree to something though. I wont go up to anyone and harass them but I don't agree with it. Then again I also wont harass people about worst things to do like drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco or eating junk food either. I wont harass people for silly things like dressing in clothes I don't agree with- or for eating foods I don't agree with, or for having hairstyles I don't agree with. You don't need to agree with everything, I wont agree with everything, but I it's not like I will hunt down people and harass them just because I disagree. Disagree is not pet peeve, it is disagree. It is not hunting people down and harassing them, it is not trying to impose your beliefs on them- it's just not agreeing with it.

faefawn

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2011, 01:30:16 pm »
Quote from: Morag;10674

From other pagans:

"But we're sisters because we have uteruses/uteri! BE MY SISTER. LET ME FORCE A RELATIONSHIP ON YOU."  Dude, beyond thinking "You better be fucking fertile you useless, cramp-inducing lump" at it every month or so, I do not think about my uterus, and I'm pretty happy that way.  

"No, no, the scholars have it totally wrong -- Artemis is a goddess of wild, untamed sexuality, not a virgin. We should totally call Her and Pan for Beltaine."  Oh.....kay.  

"I'm the daughter of the Morrigan." Stop reading Sherrilyn Kenyon novels as if they're fact!

 
hahaha oh man, THIS. Artemis and Pan for Beltaine? I've not heard that one before.

Catherine

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2011, 01:34:08 pm »
Quote from: SariusImpariul;10917
Look back in my posts. When did I actually say at any point of time I tell anyone not to sleep around hmm? In the end it's just an assumption a lot of you have made because I used a few words that riled a few people up.


It doesn't matter if you actively go around telling others what to do with their own bodies or not. You're using language that has a certain connotation. It's insulting to many people here, for lots of different reasons. Some of which have been pointed out to you already.

Quote
..I feel so stupid trying to explain this. I have no idea why people here decided to jump to the worst conclusion they could think of about me.


Here's the thing. When you use terms like "whore of a woman", "slut", and "loose legged", that comes off as a moral judgment because those terms are pejorative and derogatory. They're insults, plain and simple. If you don't want to be called out for making moral judgments and insulting others for their life choices then... well... don't do that!

Quote
Still, I wont take back that while I don't dislike the loose legged I still don't agree with it.


If you stand by your derogatory statements, that's your choice. However, don't be surprised when people challenge you, or point out how offensive those statements are.

Personally, I think it's pretty funny that your original complaint was essentially about sexism, yet you've repeatedly used derogatory words and phrases meant to describe women to prove your point. Isn't that just a little hypocritical?

faefawn

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2011, 01:39:51 pm »
Quote from: SariusImpariul;10731
One of my pet peeves is when some pagan females treat me or see males in general as lesser people because they are so goddess obsessed and act as if woman are so much more mighty. Why do they need to step all over all men just to make themselves feel better?

I agree so much, with most of what you posted really but this especially. It annoys me so much when men are seen as being lesser than women somehow, I also hate it when it's inferred that a man can't work with a goddess or that goddesses in general aren't interested in working with men/hate all men. It's ridiculous and a terrible attitude to have.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 01:47:34 pm by faefawn »

rocquelaire

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"Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2011, 02:10:04 pm »
Quote from: Catherine;10937
Personally, I think it's pretty funny that your original complaint was essentially about sexism, yet you've repeatedly used derogatory words and phrases meant to describe women to prove your point. Isn't that just a little hypocritical?

This. You said it perfectly
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Aisling

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2011, 08:21:36 pm »
Quote from: Catherine;10937
Here's the thing. When you use terms like "whore of a woman", "slut", and "loose legged", that comes off as a moral judgment because those terms are pejorative and derogatory. They're insults, plain and simple. If you don't want to be called out for making moral judgments and insulting others for their life choices then... well... don't do that!


Well said!
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stephyjh

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2011, 09:52:26 pm »
Quote from: Catherine;10937
It doesn't matter if you actively go around telling others what to do with their own bodies or not. You're using language that has a certain connotation. It's insulting to many people here, for lots of different reasons. Some of which have been pointed out to you already.



Here's the thing. When you use terms like "whore of a woman", "slut", and "loose legged", that comes off as a moral judgment because those terms are pejorative and derogatory. They're insults, plain and simple. If you don't want to be called out for making moral judgments and insulting others for their life choices then... well... don't do that!



If you stand by your derogatory statements, that's your choice. However, don't be surprised when people challenge you, or point out how offensive those statements are.

Personally, I think it's pretty funny that your original complaint was essentially about sexism, yet you've repeatedly used derogatory words and phrases meant to describe women to prove your point. Isn't that just a little hypocritical?

 
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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 02:16:04 am »
Quote from: Etheric1;10512
Some of the stuff the grinds my gears is, sadly, often from other pagans - the ones that seem to be so insecure they have to try to appear spooky or a know-it-all.  I like to think I'm well-informed, but I know that I don't know farmore than what I do *think* I know.  

Also, the ones that are in a constant state of feeling victimized or being persecuted and super thin-skinned I get tired of maybe a bit too quickly.  I know we all have our bad days, and some days we DO put up with a lot of ignorance from others and need to vent - that's fine, and I'm more than happy to listen and help someone vent.  Gods know I vent a lot from time to time.  But PLEASE do not let that be a constant state to live in!  It just drains energy and is no way to go through life!

As for what non-pagans do that is a pet peeve of mine - well that could be a long list, so I'll just say the holier-than-thou and judgments some of them make can sometimes turn into a pretty big psychotic reaction on my part.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, Etheric.

Specific to Asatru, my peeves are:

*When people rely too heavily on the Lore, and think citing the Eddas and Sagas in any given situation makes up for actual connection with the Gods and ancestors/practice. I'm a history buff, and of course I've read the Eddas and Sagas, but I don't presume to have the right or authority to go around "correcting" people's practices and beliefs, just because I don't necessarily agree with them, or because they don't fit EXACTLY with the Lore. There's a standard of deviation (a good thing!) for everything, in any situation.

*When some (not all, of course) non-Asatruars think that all Norse Pagans are Nazis/racial supremacists. I am also annoyed by the exclusionary/elitist behavior of -some- practitioners, but I won't expand upon that any further, since that's a Pandora's Box of epic proportions.

*When modern reconstructionist Pagans and others who think that "God adoption" (the incorporation of a foreign God into one's own practice, like the importation of Astarte to Egypt during the 18th Dynasty, for instance, or the bigger example of the Romanization of Greek and later Gallic Gods) is a no-no, and that "you're either completely [insert Pagan religion here], or you're a phony who doesn't know what they're doing. You can't pick and choose!" I think that's more or less a symptom of the Christian mindset most of us were brow-beaten with as children -- a "one way only" religion. Pagan religions aren't like that at all; there's more than one right way, more than one correct interpretation/application. :3

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"Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 10:21:08 am »
Quote from: SariusImpariul;10917
Look back in my posts. When did I actually say....


And where did BunnyMaz actually say s/he was criticizing you?  Since s/he was replying to me, and didn't specifically refer to you or anything you'd said, it's entirely possible that s/he was agreeing with the general principle I expounded, rather than making a direct rebuttal to your posts.

Quote
... because someone assumed I had mentioned those words to be discriminating and/or hateful- when it was never my intentions.


Catherine and several others have addressed the particular, so I won't reiterate, but I will address the general:  it is not necessary for you to intend your words to be discriminatory; it is enough for them to be used in a discriminatory way.

... On second thought, I think I will address the particular, an aspect of it that hasn't yet really been taken up.

Quote
I don't look at some whore of a woman then go 'oh because that woman is a total slut- all women are sluts!'


I'm happy to hear that you don't discriminate against women as a class by saying they're all sluts.  That's a start.

You might consider also not using derogatory language to describe women who choose to have multiple sex partners.  First off, unless you use similarly derogatory language to describe men who choose to have multiple sex partners, you're applying different standards to men's and women's sexual choices.  I'm not, in fact, advising that you should use similarly derogatory language for men, because - and this is "second off" - you'd be doing exactly what you claim you don't do:  harass, through the use of nastily-disparaging terminology, those who engage in sexual behavior you disapprove of.

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BunnyMaz

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 11:03:26 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;11148


Sunflower

 
Thank you Sunflower.  I didn't intend to directly have a go at you, Sarius.  I was trying to make the wider point that I felt was important, following your comments.  The point being that any person having sex at all, whether it is with one person or several, is taking a risk.  You can ask for reassurance from another person that they have not had many partners, but that doesn't tell you whether their partners had lots of partners who had lots of partners and so on.  

A person who married their first sexual partner and remained faithful with them for life and never experienced third party sexual assault, could still catch an STI, if their partner a- ever had sex with anyone prior to their relationship, consensual or otherwise, b- ever cheated on them during the relationship, c- ever needed a blood transfusion for any reason, d- ever got a tattoo, e- was ever exposed to sexual bodily fluids or blood of another person in a non-sexual context.  

Taking care of one's health is indeed, very important.  The way to do that WRT to sexual health is to...

  • always use condoms unless actively trying for children
  • visit a doctor semiregularly to be tested for common STIs
  • insist that sexual partners also receive regular sti tests
  • accept that it is impossible to know for certain that anyone is sti-free.  We are all Schroedinger's STI to those around us.


That said, I do not agree with the words you used.  That you refrain from pushing your opinion regarding promiscuity on others is not relevant to the fact that the terms you used are incredibly offensive.  It is easy enough to say "I do not agree with promiscuity, excepting those who are actual sex workers", so why instead use derogatory terms?

Morag

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2011, 05:24:34 am »
Quote from: SariusImpariul;10908
Unless you know that the person you sleep with has been tested and proven clean of STDs there really isn't anything out that can make something like that completely safe. I didn't say it out of morality but out of general health concern.

 
Funny, I don't worry about your health.



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Morag

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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2011, 05:26:21 am »
Quote from: faefawn;10936
hahaha oh man, THIS. Artemis and Pan for Beltaine? I've not heard that one before.

 
I was there for it. It was frightening.

Local Neo-Wiccan temple. Beltaine energy is going well. And then they call Artemis and Pan...and it immediately gets really chilly. Overcast and everything.

Since then we've had pretty crappy weather (only getting better now).
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Re: "Pagan" pet peeves
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2011, 01:49:27 pm »
Quote from: Morag;11387
I was there for it. It was frightening.

Local Neo-Wiccan temple. Beltaine energy is going well. And then they call Artemis and Pan...and it immediately gets really chilly. Overcast and everything.

Since then we've had pretty crappy weather (only getting better now).

 
Speaking of pet peeves and crappy weather, I've got one for you! (Doesn't beat the "Carrots" but will hopefully get at least a few *facepalms*.)

So, I was dating a pagan (I'm not sure which type - he wasn't sure himself at the time beyond "Yeah, goddess and stuff") and he had become convinced I *had* to meet his coven & whatnot. My first meeting was a Friday night, when the most emotionally projected woman I've ever met (we'll call her Bertha) was teaching shielding.

I was less than impressed, since I'm a mild Empath, and could clearly feel ALL of this bi-polar woman's emotions through her "Excellent shields!" I fear the day she tried to actually project anything. *shudder* Midway through this "lesson", people started snapping at my boyfriend, telling him to "stop it". Confused, and a little irritated that they were obviously making him upset, I asked what was happening. They then informed *him* that he was a horrible boyfriend for not having told me he's a psychic vampire.

Later I assured him he wasn't, and if he was, I didn't mind the energy loss because I obviously had more than enough. He still felt guilty, and I asked "So if you're some sort of super-psychic vampire, then why were people only snapping at you tonight and not any other time that I've been around you, your roommate, and his girlfriend?"

He told me I wasn't an authority, and therefore had no say. I wasn't impressed, but I didn't say anything. Fortunately, he was mature enough to think about it, since really, no one noticed his "vampirism" except at meetings when someone happened to remember.

The next day, Bertha invited us (me, my BF, his roommate & his girlfriend) to join her and a few others at the beach. We went, and it was a fantastic time until I looked up and noticed clouds rolling in. Big, dark, nasty clouds. I made mention that we should pack it in. Having spent 4 summers camping in that area, I knew very well how fast and violent the storms could be. Bertha argued and said "It's okay, I'm a weather-witch, and I've asked the storm to go elsewhere." My BF gave me "the look" so I didn't press the issue - at first. 10 minutes later it was pretty frigging obvious that the storm was nearly on top of us. I started cleaning up my crap, and again, Bertha protested saying "I've asked it to move! It'll go away! Stop worrying!"

She then proceeded to go to her husband & wife (she had one of each, apparently) to complain about how I was a muggle and doubted her power.

KRACK! KABOOM! and a sudden torrential downpour hit us. My companions forgot the storm was supposed to leave, and grabbed everything and ran for it. It was more than a mile back to the cars, btw. I pointed out there were some dunes nearby, and being there would likely be safer than running through the woods to get to the cars, but I went unheard. At this point I was soaked, and in no mood to sprint, so I looked around to make sure that I had all of my things, and nothing had been forgotten.

Her youngest ward, a 6-year-old child belonging not to Bertha but to a woman deployed in the Navy, stood up to his knees in the water, crying, and watching the group flee. I went over and picked him up, and carried him back to the path to the woods. It was then I realized some brilliant person had grabbed my shoes, so I was able to enjoy the nice, gravel path on feet that are rarely bare (no callouses) and the shards of glass from partying folks that had dropped beer bottles along the way. Needless to say, I was in a foul mood by the time I got back to the car.

(On a side note, the two of us were followed by a pair of osprey, just riding the wind above the water's edge on the way back to the path, maybe 15-25 yards away from us. I've been fairly fond of the raptors ever since. Someone was watching over me and the kid, at least.)

Bertha came out to meet me with my BF when I reached the parking lot, crying about how she had looked everywhere for the child. (Everywhere but the beach and the path. He was also a bit big for the glove compartment, but you never know - kids are pliable.)

Pet Peeves gained: People who think they can stop a storm with a thought, who teach shielding when they obviously can't do it themselves, and psychic vampires that aren't, actually.

**Note, no clue what happened to Bertha - I avoided her after that. My now ex-BF found Buddhism as his path, and I am good friends with him, his wife, and his delightful daughter calls me "Auntie". :)

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