collapse

* Recent Posts

Re: new & uncertain! by sevensons
[Today at 02:07:26 am]


Re: new & uncertain! by anubisa
[Today at 12:50:46 am]


Re: new & uncertain! by PerditaPickle
[January 23, 2021, 07:00:39 pm]


Re: Back pain by Micheál
[January 23, 2021, 06:42:53 am]


Re: Favorite Beer? by Micheál
[January 23, 2021, 06:31:29 am]

Author Topic: samhain question  (Read 2776 times)

addy

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 155
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
samhain question
« on: November 01, 2011, 03:40:19 pm »
okay so yesterday was samhain (halloween, day of the dead etc.) I didnt have time to do any rituals, but then I found out that some people celebrate samhain today (nov 1st) and count halloween (31st)  as the eve. Would it be appropiate to do a ritual tonite? (I also didnt want to do it yesterday so I wouldnt rush any of the ritual) thanks and blessed be

victoreia

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
  • Posts: 904
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
  • Religion: disorganized something
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: samhain question
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 04:22:52 pm »
Quote from: addy;28545
okay so yesterday was samhain (halloween, day of the dead etc.) I didnt have time to do any rituals, but then I found out that some people celebrate samhain today (nov 1st) and count halloween (31st)  as the eve. Would it be appropiate to do a ritual tonite? (I also didnt want to do it yesterday so I wouldnt rush any of the ritual) thanks and blessed be

 
If the thought of not doing one bothers you, then you should go ahead and perform one.

I haven't done very many rituals, so take this with some salt, but I would think rushing a ritual or its preparation is inadvisable. (Just my opinion; YMMV, as always.)
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

We are star stuff. We are the universe, made manifest. --Ambassador Delenn, Babylon 5

Mind how you go. -- Granny Weatherwax

Fier

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Michigan
  • Posts: 820
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 7
  • Daughter of the Cosmos
    • View Profile
  • Religion: FlameKeeping
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: samhain question
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 04:42:47 pm »
Quote from: addy;28545
okay so yesterday was samhain (halloween, day of the dead etc.) I didnt have time to do any rituals, but then I found out that some people celebrate samhain today (nov 1st) and count halloween (31st)  as the eve. Would it be appropiate to do a ritual tonite? (I also didnt want to do it yesterday so I wouldnt rush any of the ritual) thanks and blessed be

 
Plenty of people do their rituals a day or two before, depending on which day is most convenient, so I don't see why you couldn't do it the day after.

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3397
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 879
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: samhain question
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 04:50:03 pm »
Quote from: addy;28545
okay so yesterday was samhain (halloween, day of the dead etc.) I didnt have time to do any rituals, but then I found out that some people celebrate samhain today (nov 1st) and count halloween (31st)  as the eve. Would it be appropiate to do a ritual tonite? (I also didnt want to do it yesterday so I wouldnt rush any of the ritual) thanks and blessed be

 
Short version: Yes, it's fine.

Longer version: That said, timing may affect what you do and how you do it, and this seems like a good time to explain some of that so you can make more deliberate choices (both for this ritual, and future ones.)

There are lots of reasons people might not celebrate a Sabbat on the precise day. Groups will often schedule for the nearest weekend, to avoid complicating everyone's work schedules, for example.

If you've read the other Samhain threads, I did my ritual on Sunday evening (the 30th) rather than the 31st) because my stamina's still iffy due to the health foo in my life. I can't work a full day, do a longer formal ritual, and work the next full day, and expect to be able to do a good job with the second day's work (or maybe the ritual: depends on if it's a good day or not.) So, I planned ahead that I'd want to do my major ritual work on a Sunday, when I could take my time getting ready, rest a bit in the afternoon if I needed to, and then have a relaxed time getting ready in the evening.

It's quite common in general for people to consider the Sabbat to be 3 days (day before, day of, day after) for practical purposes. (Also, some people celebrate on the astrological dates, which haven't happened yet: this year, astrological Samhain is, I think, next Monday.)

That said, there are some timing things to think about. For Sabbats (and moons, for that matter) the energy leading up to the Sabbat often feels a bit different than the energy after it. Depending on what kind of work you're doing, you may want to adjust how you go about it slightly in order to work better with that.

(So, for example, since I was doing my ritual a day early, I was framing what I was doing as "As I move into the new year", rather than "Now that the new year is here..." Subtle, but important to me.)

There are also times when the precise timing might matter more. For example, if you're doing a ritual revolving around the exact moment of equinox and balance, or the first dawn after the longest night, those things only happen at one precise moment in time: if you aren't in ritual then, you are probably better off getting a bit more general in your ritual. (Focusing on balance, but not "at this very moment, there is balance...")

For Samhain (and to a certain extent, Beltane), that kind of timing isn't so critical -  but many people do feel that the Veil (the thing that separates this world from the other world(s) gets thinnest at Samhain (and Beltane). It's not a on/off switch (Veil/No Veil!) it's more like a dimmer switch on a light. It gets gradually thinner, then thicker, and there's a pause in the middle where it's thinnest.

People who are doing very specific kinds of ritual work might care more about the timing. People who need to (for whatever reason) have their ritual at a different time might plan for it - so that because the timing isn't quite perfect, they plan a bit of different oomph into the ritual somewhere else, to help out.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

addy

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 155
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: samhain question
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 05:40:11 pm »
Thank you everyone :)

Micheál

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Belfast, N. Ireland
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: ie
  • Total likes: 37
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Alexandrian Wicca, Gaelic Polytheism
Re: samhain question
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 02:36:46 am »
Quote from: addy;28545
okay so yesterday was samhain (halloween, day of the dead etc.) I didnt have time to do any rituals, but then I found out that some people celebrate samhain today (nov 1st) and count halloween (31st)  as the eve. Would it be appropiate to do a ritual tonite? (I also didnt want to do it yesterday so I wouldnt rush any of the ritual) thanks and blessed be

Oh yes. Traditionally the Celts followed a lunar/solar calender based around lunar months. Time was measured as night preceding the day, so festivals began at sunset of the eve prior, and the Samhain festival was at least three days long. With the advent of the Gregorian calender that we still use, folk lore&traditions around Oíche Shamhna(Halloween)&Samhain adapted to fit(which still survives), but if you ask me you'll be able to sense when the time is appropriate, and a lot of that can come from our psychological program of the "31st" being the night.

Since the seasonal occurrences are much different today, some people wait for a seasonal occurrence such as the first frost to celebrate Samhain, or an astrological occurrence such as the sun entering a certain degree Scorpio(mostly 15, which would be November 7th this year) My coven celebrated it on the 28th this year, which was Friday, so that left me able to watch the fireworks&Paranormal Activity on Halloween night, plus my small personal rite before retiring, since the 31st was Monday, and I had to work yesterday.
Semper Fidelis

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10271
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 284
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: samhain question
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 08:01:45 am »
Quote from: Micheál;28604
Since the seasonal occurrences are much different today, some people wait for a seasonal occurrence such as the first frost to celebrate Samhain....

That could be sometime in December or even January in Central Texas and "never" in some even more more southern parts of the US. A silly point I know, but it does show on of the problem of adapting a seasonal religious festival to different part of the world where the seasons are much different.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

Micheál

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Belfast, N. Ireland
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: ie
  • Total likes: 37
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Alexandrian Wicca, Gaelic Polytheism
Re: samhain question
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 12:29:34 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;28610
That could be sometime in December or even January in Central Texas and "never" in some even more more southern parts of the US. A silly point I know, but it does show on of the problem of adapting a seasonal religious festival to different part of the world where the seasons are much different.

Good point, some parts of the world have problems say adapting to festivals set in the British Isles, or even the climate in Canada to Greece, e.t.c. The Southern Hemisphere has there way of handling it, so I guess it takes some to be a bit flexible.
Semper Fidelis

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10271
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 284
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: samhain question
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 05:53:01 pm »
Quote from: Micheál;28628
Good point, some parts of the world have problems say adapting to festivals set in the British Isles, or even the climate in Canada to Greece, e.t.c. The Southern Hemisphere has there way of handling it, so I guess it takes some to be a bit flexible.

Flexible helps, but sometimes Northern European seasonal assumptions just don't work. For example, in South Texas, many farmers get three growing seasons a year. The cycle runs Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest and runs throughout the year. The seasonal cycle just doesn't work anything like it does in the British Isles.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

victoreia

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
  • Posts: 904
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
  • Religion: disorganized something
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: samhain question
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 07:37:19 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;28649
Flexible helps, but sometimes Northern European seasonal assumptions just don't work. For example, in South Texas, many farmers get three growing seasons a year. The cycle runs Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest and runs throughout the year. The seasonal cycle just doesn't work anything like it does in the British Isles.

Heh. In Hawaii, there's "summer" and "rainy" for seasons. With some overlap.....
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:37:54 pm by victoreia »
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

We are star stuff. We are the universe, made manifest. --Ambassador Delenn, Babylon 5

Mind how you go. -- Granny Weatherwax

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8949
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 408
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: samhain question
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 09:16:54 pm »
Quote from: Micheál;28604
... but if you ask me you'll be able to sense when the time is appropriate, and a lot of that can come from our psychological program of the "31st" being the night.

 
Except when it doesn't come from the psychological association - I've been doing quite a lot of the "sense when the time is right" thing since I've been solitary (it doesn't work so well with group work), and I sure was startled the first time I sensed, on the 31st, that it wasn't time yet.

(I'll note, for general readership, that for most people it takes practice to be able to sense sabbat timings; a novice isn't likely to be able to do it well - and may not be able to do it at all - the first time.  Which doesn't mean people shouldn't try to sense it, by any means; that's one of the ways to get practice in it.  But it won't necessarily be reliable, and/or it won't necessarily be clear.)

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Micheál

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Belfast, N. Ireland
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: ie
  • Total likes: 37
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Alexandrian Wicca, Gaelic Polytheism
Re: samhain question
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 02:04:41 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;28649
Flexible helps, but sometimes Northern European seasonal assumptions just don't work. For example, in South Texas, many farmers get three growing seasons a year. The cycle runs Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest, Plant, Harvest and runs throughout the year. The seasonal cycle just doesn't work anything like it does in the British Isles.

Oh I understand. From a Wiccan perspective it could be problematic. The Sabbats native to the British Isles, they can only be 'altered' so much in order for them to relate to the same mysteries and cycles of life. Otherwise they'd be purely symbolic, but some regions like the Southern Hemisphere are able to adjust the Sabbats according to their seasons.

In other spiritualities, say one that honours Samhain like Celtic Reconstructionism which is the strongest in North America, have their own ways of realigning. I've heard of practitioners from Canada, and even Florida being able to do their own things to adjust, but in dealing with different and foreign climates, can be a lot more difficult. (It can even be difficult connecting with certain deities in places not similar to their regional associations, if any)

 
Quote from: SunflowerP;28672
Except when it doesn't come from the psychological association - I've been doing quite a lot of the "sense when the time is right" thing since I've been solitary (it doesn't work so well with group work), and I sure was startled the first time I sensed, on the 31st, that it wasn't time yet.

(I'll note, for general readership, that for most people it takes practice to be able to sense sabbat timings; a novice isn't likely to be able to do it well - and may not be able to do it at all - the first time.  Which doesn't mean people shouldn't try to sense it, by any means; that's one of the ways to get practice in it.  But it won't necessarily be reliable, and/or it won't necessarily be clear.)

Sunflower

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. That's what I actually do myself, and I base my personal rituals around being able to "sense" when the time is right. I think comes from being very in tune with the natural rhythm cycles(which can occur naturally, but also done with much practice), but just mentioned the psychological factor for those that do seem to react that way.
Semper Fidelis

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
13 Replies
5401 Views
Last post July 31, 2011, 11:12:47 am
by AmberHeart
2 Replies
930 Views
Last post November 03, 2013, 01:19:40 am
by MattyG
1 Replies
2272 Views
Last post September 27, 2014, 04:15:46 pm
by NiDara
9 Replies
1389 Views
Last post October 14, 2017, 04:17:09 pm
by milkeyedmender
34 Replies
3245 Views
Last post November 06, 2017, 01:37:37 pm
by Bluerose31

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 40
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal