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Author Topic: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas  (Read 1492 times)

Sarah

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Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« on: December 27, 2015, 02:06:25 pm »
I'm really interested in peoples thoughts on this.

http://realitysandwich.com/238049/shaman-claus-the-shamanic-origins-of-christmas/

While I don't know enough about the culture being talked about to judge, this all seems to map a bit too tidily for me. And it doesn't take into account all the other cultural influences that give us Christmas as we do it today.
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Redfaery

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 02:33:54 pm »
Quote from: Jake_;184081
I'm really interested in peoples thoughts on this.

http://realitysandwich.com/238049/shaman-claus-the-shamanic-origins-of-christmas/

While I don't know enough about the culture being talked about to judge, this all seems to map a bit too tidily for me. And it doesn't take into account all the other cultural influences that give us Christmas as we do it today.
Ummm....wow. What a vast oversimplification of history and culture. Also smacks a bit of "core shamanism" type nonsense.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Larix

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 03:55:44 pm »
Quote from: Jake_;184081


While I don't know enough about the culture being talked about to judge, this all seems to map a bit too tidily for me. And it doesn't take into account all the other cultural influences that give us Christmas as we do it today.

 
I have just had a look:

Quote
In this wintry-wonderland, if you go searching for Santa, you may not find him or his Elvin factory – but you will find groups of indigenous people native to what we know as Siberia.  Among these cultures are the northern Tungusic people, known as the Evenki.  The Evenki were predominantly hunter-gatherers as well as reindeer herders.  Their survival depended largely upon the health and vitality of their domesticated reindeer.  The reindeer provided the Evenki and other northern tribes with everything from clothing, housing material, wares and tools from the bones and antlers, transportation (yes, they ride reindeer!), milk, as well as cultural and religious inspiration.



http://realitysandwich.com/238049/shaman-claus-the-shamanic-origins-of-christmas/

I think we can look closer to home.

Santa Claus might be the highest Gemanic God (Odin or Wotan) in disguise.

Sarah

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 03:58:46 pm »
Quote from: Larix;184085
I have just had a look:



http://realitysandwich.com/238049/shaman-claus-the-shamanic-origins-of-christmas/

I think we can look closer to home.

Santa Claus might be the highest Gemanic God (Odin or Wotan) in disguise.

 
Well yeah, he might be, but do you have any sources for that?
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

RandallS

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 06:21:53 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;184083
Ummm....wow. What a vast oversimplification of history and culture.

This. And a bit of seeing what we want to see as well.
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RecycledBenedict

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2015, 08:16:46 am »
Quote from: Larix;184085
I think we can look closer to home.

Santa Claus might be the highest Gemanic God (Odin or Wotan) in disguise.

The Germanic component is rather the farm wight (tomte), which was merged with the Dutch customs surrounding Saint Nicholas and the English renaissance allegory Father Christmas in USA in the late 19th century into the Santa of today.

The merging of St. Nicholas and Father Christmas happened already in 1823, thanks to the poet Clement Clark Moore, but the farm wight was added to the mix due to the influence from Swedish immigrants at some point after 1871 - the year when the Swedish author Viktor Rydberg wrote a fairy tale about the tomte delivering Christmas gifts, a function the tomte didn't have before that point in time.

In older folklore the farm wight was given a bowl of porridge at some point during the winter half-year.

At the time Rydberg wrote his fairytale, Christmas gifts were delivered by the Christmas Goat, a Nordic adaptation of Krampus, a monstrous assistant to Baby Jesus or St. Nicholas in German-speaking countries. Before the 18th century, Christmas gifts (as we know them) were not exchanged at all in Sweden. In Finland the title 'Christmas Goat' was transferred from the actual goat to Santa in the early 20th century. In Norway the goat was transformed into the one who move Santa's sleigh.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 08:21:18 am by RecycledBenedict »

Allaya

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Re: Shaman Claus: The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 12:34:07 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;184223
In Norway the goat was transformed into the one who move Santa's sleigh.

 
Ehhhhh...not really?

Santa hasn't still hasn't gotten much traction over here. This is still very much Julnisse territory. Although Norway is not a monoculture, I have seen nothing to indicate that the julbukk has ever (even currently) any association with Santa or sleigh-pulling.

The Julnisse brings gifts. Sometimes the julnisse rides the julbukk to get from point A to point B. I think there are still a few patches in the country where the julbukk alone brings presents (my memory sucks, but I believe it drags a sack or carries it on his back).

If you have any reliable sources that indicate the Scandic julbukk's lineage from the German Krampus, I would love to see it. I have not found anything more than speculation on that connection, although I do find it to be a somewhat reasonable assumption. There is other speculation that the julbukk drew from Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr, the goats who pull Thor's chariot.

Aside from all that, I haven't run into any widespread 'real-world' historic use of goats as pulling animals in Norway. On the other hand, reindeer have a very long history of use as a region/culture-associated pulling animal. It would make more sense to me that Santa's sleigh-pulling reindeer were derived from actual sleigh-pulling reindeer.
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