Christmas wasn't stolen from the pagans

[Asch]

Setting aside the Universal Paganism fallacy involved in the notion that any modern person could claim that something was stolen from "us", I am really actively uncomfortable with the ease with which many pagans can simply erase Judaism from the history of early Christianity.

 
I completely agree, I attended a Messianic Judaic church as a kid after previously attending a baptist church and was incredibly confused by the lack of acknowledgement of Judaism in the first and confused by the messianic nature of the latter as a kid because I didn't understand the antisemitism, politics, etc. that went into shaping the former vs. the latter.

I should have been clearer about understanding =/= approving or winking and nodding.

[MadZealot]

A misguided sense of self righteous outrage?

Yep, and IME it coincides with what DH called the 'Universal Pagan fallacy.'  Couple that with some Old Religion and Burning Times myths, and Lo! We can haz opreshun!  

(Insert gif of pagan'd out lolcat that is also, paradoxically, splay-armed like Jesus.)  

Oddly enough, I've noticed the PPC (pagan persecution complex) occurring most among middle-class white folk.  I wonder why that is.
I pointed out the bad history, once, in a FB group, and... poof.  Locked out.  You say facts is facts.  I say facts are a bitch.

[Melamphoros]

 
Oddly enough, I've noticed the PPC (pagan persecution complex) occurring most among middle-class white folk.  I wonder why that is.

I think it boils down to Special Snowflake Syndrome.  "I am SPECIAL, dammit!  I am so SPECIAL that there must be shadow groups wanting to OPPRESS me for being so SPECIAL!"

I pointed out the bad history, once, in a FB group, and... poof.  Locked out.  You say facts is facts.  I say facts are a bitch.

 
You expected some other reaction?  People tend not to be called out on their oppression complex-fueled Special Snowflake Syndrome.

[MadZealot]

I think it boils down to Special Snowflake Syndrome.  "I am SPECIAL, dammit!  I am so SPECIAL that there must be shadow groups wanting to OPPRESS me for being so SPECIAL!"

Oh yeah, a big steaming heap o'speshulness.  Also a desire to unite under a banner, and an excuse to hate the [shadow] 'oppressors.'  I don't think some people can have a 'we' without a 'they,' an 'us' without a 'them.'
 

You expected some other reaction?

I guess not.  Lesson learned: don't futz with other peoples UPMs (Unverified Persecution Myths.)

[RandallS]

I guess not.  Lesson learned: don't futz with other peoples UPMs (Unverified Persecution Myths.)

I never learned that lesson. Of course, I don't care if I'm kicked out of some FB group for not buying the group's special snowflake version of reality.

[Melamphoros]

Oh yeah, a big steaming heap o'speshulness.  Also a desire to unite under a banner, and an excuse to hate the [shadow] 'oppressors.'  I don't think some people can have a 'we' without a 'they,' an 'us' without a 'them.'
 

I guess not.  Lesson learned: don't futz with other peoples UPMs (Unverified Persecution Myths.)

 
Agreed.

*steals the phrase UPMs (Unverified Persecution Myths) for later use.*

[MadZealot]

I never learned that lesson. Of course, I don't care if I'm kicked out of some FB group for not buying the group's special snowflake version of reality.

I'm with you there, Randall.  I've called BS on the Christian Theft Fallacy several times, but been booted for it only once.  

So far.  :dwink:

[sailor]

Many Christians do as well, unfortunately -- many simply give what amounts to lip service to Judaism role in early Christianity, admitting there was one but downplaying it as much as possible.

 
With a major exception of a significant number of conservative Christian.

[mandrina]

With a major exception of a significant number of conservative Christian.

 
the support of israel and the recognition of the jewish role in the history of christianity are two different things.

[RandallS]

With a major exception of a significant number of conservative Christian.

Unfortunately, in my mind, a number of conservative Christians  -- at least of the Protestant type -- are (at best) only false friends. They support Israel because they believe Israel's existence is a requirement for their version of the end times to come to pass. And as for Jews themselves, they believe they are all damned to hell unless they convert and become Christian. Their acknowledgement of the role of Jews in early Christianity is often limited because they really don't know that much about early church history and what they do know is heavily filtered by their (odd for Christians) theology.

[MadZealot]

Unfortunately, in my mind, a number of conservative Christians  -- at least of the Protestant type -- are (at best) only false friends. They support Israel because they believe Israel's existence is a requirement for their version of the end times to come to pass. And as for Jews themselves, they believe they are all damned to hell unless they convert and become Christian.

Mhmm.

Also: Omygod, they killed Jesus!  (you bastards!)

Nevermind that Christ's dying was part of the plan from the git-go.

[RandallS]

Mhmm.

Also: Omygod, they killed Jesus!  (you bastards!)

Nevermind that Christ's dying was part of the plan from the git-go.

Not to mention that the Romans, not the Jews, killed Jesus.

[Melamphoros]

Not to mention that the Romans, not the Jews, killed Jesus.

 
Although if it was Jesus' plan to die the entire time, it was technically suicide-by-cop.

[Darkhawk]

Nevermind that Christ's dying was part of the plan from the git-go.

 
It's amazing what a successful retcon can do.

[MadZealot]

Although if it was Jesus' plan to die the entire time, it was technically suicide-by-cop.

:eek::eek:

It's amazing what a successful retcon can do.

:eek::eek::eek:

Bwaaaaaa hahaaaaaaaaaaaa