collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: What does the bible say about rape children?  (Read 3164 times)

dlnewhouse

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2016
  • Location: FL
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 0
  • ba weep grana weep nini bon
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christian
What does the bible say about rape children?
« on: December 14, 2016, 11:56:12 pm »
What does the bible say about rape children?  In particular, is it possible for children born in a marriage to be considered rape children by God?
Daniel L Newhouse

ehbowen

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • *
  • Posts: 1291
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 240
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 01:25:23 pm »
Quote from: MerlynKing;200065
What does the bible say about rape children?  In particular, is it possible for children born in a marriage to be considered rape children by God?

 
I haven't found many specific references to rape in the Bible (mostly the rape of Tamar by Amnon in 2 Samuel 13), and off the top of my head I can't remember any specific references to children of rape at all. There is a reference to those who entice a woman into sex being required to pay the bride-price of a virgin to her father (Exodus 22:16-17), but it appears that this refers to a consensual relationship and that after the fine is paid it is considered a valid marriage, unless the girl's father utterly refuses to give her to him. I see no evidence that God makes a difference between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" children, although society may.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Soletaken

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 31
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 06:19:50 pm »
Quote from: MerlynKing;200065
What does the bible say about rape children?  In particular, is it possible for children born in a marriage to be considered rape children by God?

 
I don't remember anything in the bible on the topic, but I haven't opened a bible in, erm, going on 20 years.

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2463
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 167
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 08:58:22 pm »
Quote from: MerlynKing;200065
What does the bible say about rape children?  In particular, is it possible for children born in a marriage to be considered rape children by God?

Maybe.

This article goes directly at the subject.  

It reminds us that, in the ancient world, consent wasn't really considered much.  Also, women were for childrearing.  From the article: "The only Bible story in which someone declines to produce a child is the one about Onan refusing to father a son for his deceased brother. He spills his seed on the ground instead, and God kills him for it. Whether the widow wanted the seed inside her plays no part in the account whatsoever."

Also-also, that women were property, and marriage was essentially a property transaction, and wedding night funtimes were most likely not consensual (and not for many nights after.)  "Daughters can be given in marriage or sold outright, slaves can be sent by their mistresses to bear proxy babies, virgin war captives can be claimed as wives, widows can be forced to submit to humping by their brothers-in-law until they produce sons. Presumably any of these women can be laid at any time, at a man’s discretion, much as is the case in parts of Afghanistan or analogous Iron Age tribal cultures today. In such a world, a significant portion of babies conceived will be the product of non-consensual sex. In other words, rape."  

Pretty blunt, but I see little to disagree with.  I was going to point out that the piece was written during the 2012 election season, so some of the controversy re: Soapy and Akin are gonna be a bit dated.  Then I remembered we're getting ready to install (yet another) sexual predator in the Oval Office in about 5 weeks, so maybe it's still salient.  Maybe.

Another from the same author: Captive Virgins, Polygamy, Sex Slaves: What Marriage Would Look Like if We Actually Followed the Bible. Just sharing for funsies.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 08:59:51 pm by MadZealot »
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Soletaken

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 31
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2016, 01:40:07 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;200138
Maybe.

This article goes directly at the subject.  

It reminds us that, in the ancient world, consent wasn't really considered much.  Also, women were for childrearing.  From the article: "The only Bible story in which someone declines to produce a child is the one about Onan refusing to father a son for his deceased brother. He spills his seed on the ground instead, and God kills him for it. Whether the widow wanted the seed inside her plays no part in the account whatsoever."

Also-also, that women were property, and marriage was essentially a property transaction, and wedding night funtimes were most likely not consensual (and not for many nights after.)  "Daughters can be given in marriage or sold outright, slaves can be sent by their mistresses to bear proxy babies, virgin war captives can be claimed as wives, widows can be forced to submit to humping by their brothers-in-law until they produce sons. Presumably any of these women can be laid at any time, at a man’s discretion, much as is the case in parts of Afghanistan or analogous Iron Age tribal cultures today. In such a world, a significant portion of babies conceived will be the product of non-consensual sex. In other words, rape."  

Pretty blunt, but I see little to disagree with.  I was going to point out that the piece was written during the 2012 election season, so some of the controversy re: Soapy and Akin are gonna be a bit dated.  Then I remembered we're getting ready to install (yet another) sexual predator in the Oval Office in about 5 weeks, so maybe it's still salient.  Maybe.

Another from the same author: Captive Virgins, Polygamy, Sex Slaves: What Marriage Would Look Like if We Actually Followed the Bible. Just sharing for funsies.

 

Ugh. This puts a disgusting new perspective on the topic. Maybe the bible doesn't mention babies that are conceived by rape because the writers of the Bible had no concept of consent, therefore rape didn't exist to them.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4924
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 831
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2016, 08:53:57 am »
Quote from: Soletaken;200152
Ugh. This puts a disgusting new perspective on the topic. Maybe the bible doesn't mention babies that are conceived by rape because the writers of the Bible had no concept of consent, therefore rape didn't exist to them.

 
Until very recently rape was treated as a property crime, the use of someone else's woman.

Remember, laws against marital rape started getting passed in the US in the 1970s, because the established law until very recently was "you can't rape her if she belongs to you".  There are still people who think that this is unreasonable and are very angry about it.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Soletaken

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 31
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2016, 12:47:39 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;200173
Until very recently rape was treated as a property crime, the use of someone else's woman.

Remember, laws against marital rape started getting passed in the US in the 1970s, because the established law until very recently was "you can't rape her if she belongs to you".  There are still people who think that this is unreasonable and are very angry about it.

 

Glad I wasn't born until the 80s.

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 67
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 01:41:17 pm »
Quote from: Soletaken;200181
Glad I wasn't born until the 80s.

 
In Canada, marital rape wasn't an offence until '83. So it was legal within my lifetime. The more you know!

Gaudior

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Druid
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 02:43:57 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;200173
Until very recently rape was treated as a property crime, the use of someone else's woman.

Remember, laws against marital rape started getting passed in the US in the 1970s, because the established law until very recently was "you can't rape her if she belongs to you".  There are still people who think that this is unreasonable and are very angry about it.

 
Gods that's awful :(

Beryl

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 77
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 05:26:45 pm »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;200228
In Canada, marital rape wasn't an offence until '83. So it was legal within my lifetime. The more you know!

 
In the UK (well, England and Wales, not sure about Scottish law on this) it wasn't until some time in the 90s, because I remember the news coverage, and I was old enough to understand and be disgusted by the fact that this wasn't already the case. (Interestingly/horrifyingly, the law's 'opinion' so to speak was apparently previously that a woman gave blanket consent at the point of marriage, but this was only made law in the 1730s, so presumably before that married women *did* have at least theoretical protection (though I'm guessing not much in practice), but someone felt the need to go 'nope, not having that!')

rocquelaire

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 682
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: What does the bible say about rape children?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2016, 04:09:50 am »
Quote from: Beryl;200237
In the UK (well, England and Wales, not sure about Scottish law on this) it wasn't until some time in the 90s, because I remember the news coverage, and I was old enough to understand and be disgusted by the fact that this wasn't already the case. (Interestingly/horrifyingly, the law's 'opinion' so to speak was apparently previously that a woman gave blanket consent at the point of marriage, but this was only made law in the 1730s, so presumably before that married women *did* have at least theoretical protection (though I'm guessing not much in practice), but someone felt the need to go 'nope, not having that!')

 
1989 for Scotland, in the case of S v HMA. Prior to that, it was assumed that a woman gave blanket consent at the point of marriage and could not withdraw that consent.
Ashael Rising My debut novel, a tale of a tribal medicine woman, protecting her world from soul-sucking invaders. Crowdfunding now.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
18 Replies
12727 Views
Last post July 19, 2012, 08:51:33 am
by SkySamuelle
3 Replies
892 Views
Last post August 19, 2012, 10:43:41 pm
by sailor
89 Replies
6434 Views
Last post September 08, 2012, 07:52:14 am
by Melamphoros
19 Replies
1885 Views
Last post September 01, 2012, 11:39:25 pm
by Annie Roonie
4 Replies
2321 Views
Last post November 07, 2015, 07:56:54 am
by RandallS

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 33
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall