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Author Topic: Brythonic Witchcraft  (Read 3837 times)

Sophia C

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 02:41:28 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

 
I don't think we have evidence for anything that old, but you might be interested in Scottish sources (nineteenth century, mainly) for the folk magic of that era and up to about a century before. Lots of them can be found at Albacraft Publishing in e-book form, e.g. MacKenzie's 'Gaelic Incantations' - but lots of their titles are in the public domain, so search for online versions of them before you buy.

Beyond that, the Irish myths refer to druid magic of various kinds, but those were written down late, so don't necessarily represent practices accurately.
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PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 05:33:34 am »
Quote from: Vale;140915
I am not sure what you are seeking to achieve here?

The Brythonic people gave way to the Anglo Saxons from about the 5th CE and the Vikings arrived sometime in the 8th CE. In between we have the "dark ages" of which very little is really known. I do not see any way of identifying which of the later practices have a common root.

I've found many overlaps of  English witchcraft practices with other European and African practices. Did they come from a single source or  were they developed independently? There is really no way to be sure.

 
Well, friend, that is why it is an attempt. This is why I am looking for common roots between all five groups of people's traditions. Mainly Welsh, Cornish, and Breton, though.

The amount of territory that was in Brythonic hands was Southern Scotland on down, which I'm sure you already know. I figured, maybe by compiling the common links, there would at least be some pointer to it being possibly Ancient Brythonic. A shot in the dark, but a good lifelong project.

Vale

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 01:29:10 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140963
Well, friend, that is why it is an attempt. This is why I am looking for common roots between all five groups of people's traditions. Mainly Welsh, Cornish, and Breton, though.

The amount of territory that was in Brythonic hands was Southern Scotland on down, which I'm sure you already know. I figured, maybe by compiling the common links, there would at least be some pointer to it being possibly Ancient Brythonic. A shot in the dark, but a good lifelong project.

 
To be honest I don't think you will get very far. Much of the historic Welsh culture was obliterated by the English and other than the folk tales collected by the likes of Marie T and Elias Owen very little remains. What does remain is contaminated by the work of Edward Williams.

The Mab is very incomplete and there are tantalising hints of other tales in it which are now lost. If there are any old manuscripts lying around undiscovered you'd probably have to root through collections in the UK to find them.

You're going to have to filter out Greek and Roman influences to which all the countries you mention will have been exposed.

Going back 200 years is problematic enough, going back some 2000 years probably impossible

PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 02:42:33 pm »
Quote from: Vale;140999
To be honest I don't think you will get very far. Much of the historic Welsh culture was obliterated by the English and other than the folk tales collected by the likes of Marie T and Elias Owen very little remains. What does remain is contaminated by the work of Edward Williams.

The Mab is very incomplete and there are tantalising hints of other tales in it which are now lost. If there are any old manuscripts lying around undiscovered you'd probably have to root through collections in the UK to find them.

You're going to have to filter out Greek and Roman influences to which all the countries you mention will have been exposed.

Going back 200 years is problematic enough, going back some 2000 years probably impossible

 
You're more than likely right. It's worth a shot, aince the worst case sceario is that I will be wrong. I'm not looking to write a book or anything. I'd like to learn Welsh Witchcraft, but all I have seen is a type of Eclectic Wicca with Welsh overtones. It'll take me long enough to try and find that and Wales and the Welsh people still exist.

Aster Breo

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2014, 12:31:32 am »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;141005
I'd like to learn Welsh Witchcraft, but all I have seen is a type of Eclectic Wicca with Welsh overtones.

I haven't read it myself, but you might be interested in the book _Irish Witchcraft by an Irish Witch_.  I've seen it recommended several times by people I trust.  It's not Welsh, but might be interesting, and might have citations to other helpful sources.

Just a thought...
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Vale

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2014, 05:36:19 am »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;141005
. I'd like to learn Welsh Witchcraft, but all I have seen is a type of Eclectic Wicca with Welsh overtones.  .


And that I'm afraid is probably all you will find publically other than in the old folk tales and Michael Howard's "Welsh Witches and Wizards".  

You'll find a lot more on Cornish witchcraft which has some overlap with Welsh practices. Gemma Gary has published books which provide a workable practice but although they are based on Cornish history, even that doesn't go back very far.

Materialist

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2014, 07:33:33 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;140899
A couple more things I've remembered:


Oh, I am having a slow week. More Romano-British stuff: the image of the gorgon head was put on some buildings to ward off evil, and "face-pots," as archaeologists call them-clay pots with faces on them-were used for the same reason. They were filled with offerings to a god and placed in the foundation of a building before the floor was built, so that the deity would always watch over the place.

PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2014, 05:03:57 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;141189
Oh, I am having a slow week. More Romano-British stuff: the image of the gorgon head was put on some buildings to ward off evil, and "face-pots," as archaeologists call them-clay pots with faces on them-were used for the same reason. They were filled with offerings to a god and placed in the foundation of a building before the floor was built, so that the deity would always watch over the place.

 
Right. There are some good documentaries on that.

PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2014, 05:06:11 pm »
Quote from: Vale;141108
And that I'm afraid is probably all you will find publically other than in the old folk tales and Michael Howard's "Welsh Witches and Wizards".  

You'll find a lot more on Cornish witchcraft which has some overlap with Welsh practices. Gemma Gary has published books which provide a workable practice but although they are based on Cornish history, even that doesn't go back very far.

Thank you for the input. As I had said, you are probably right. I will take a look at the book you mentioned. I had planned on purchasing it anyway. Also, a book on the Dyn Hysbys I'm going to read. Thanks again!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 05:07:23 pm by PaganNotPerfect »

dragonfaerie

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2014, 06:26:59 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;141092
I haven't read it myself, but you might be interested in the book _Irish Witchcraft by an Irish Witch_.


I've read it (and own it). It's a great read for contemporary Irish witchcraft and she does touch on folk traditions, but it's mean to document her own tradition of Irish witchcraft and it isn't reconstructionist in the least.

But for an idea of what the workable systems in use are today, and where those systems came from, it's a great read.

Karen

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