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Author Topic: Brythonic Witchcraft  (Read 3846 times)

PaganNotPerfect

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Brythonic Witchcraft
« on: February 22, 2014, 05:26:42 am »
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 08:03:47 am »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

I deleted a duplicate of this thread in another forum.
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PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 02:51:58 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;140676
I deleted a duplicate of this thread in another forum.

 
I only did that because I didn't know if the same people on one forum would be looking on the other. I'm not up to any tricks. Just looking for information.

yewberry

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 09:47:15 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140693
I only did that because I didn't know if the same people on one forum would be looking on the other. I'm not up to any tricks. Just looking for information.

 
I don't think Randall was accusing you of anything, just deleting duplicate (or nearly so) posts.  You're naught but the victim of housekeeping.

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 03:50:35 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

 
Fairytales and legends are a good start. I could only find two books from my collection right away one is "The Folklore of the Scottish Highlands" by Anne Ross, the other is "Mysterious Britain" by Homer Sykes. I love "Mysterious Britain" it is more of a coffee table book showing pictures of tombs, stone circles, and ruins; but it gives you the names of places to look up for your research.

PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 03:27:35 am »
Quote from: Freesia;140759
Fairytales and legends are a good start. I could only find two books from my collection right away one is "The Folklore of the Scottish Highlands" by Anne Ross, the other is "Mysterious Britain" by Homer Sykes. I love "Mysterious Britain" it is more of a coffee table book showing pictures of tombs, stone circles, and ruins; but it gives you the names of places to look up for your research.

 
Thank you very much! I have read the Mabinogion and am fairly versed in King Arthur legends. Amongst a few others. I will look up the book you mentioned. Really, I'm looking for folk magic knowledge in order to reconstruct. Thank you for the suggestion!

Aiwelin

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 11:42:19 am »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140819
Thank you very much! I have read the Mabinogion and am fairly versed in King Arthur legends. Amongst a few others. I will look up the book you mentioned. Really, I'm looking for folk magic knowledge in order to reconstruct. Thank you for the suggestion!

 
I recently read Wyrdworking: Path of a Saxon Sorcerer by Alaric Albertsson, which focuses primarily on Anglo-Saxon magic.  A lot of it is sourced from folk magic, and Alaric is very good about naming what's old and what's his new ideas.  It might be helpful for you!
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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 12:30:36 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!


A Guide to Ogam, Damian McManus, mentions a couple forms of divination used by the Irish.

Roman Britain: A New History, Guy de la Bedoyere, mentions haruspex, dream incubation and interpretation, which often used alcoholic beverages, so the cults of British Bacchus and Faunus Medigenus may have taken part. The cult of Serapis also spread to Britain, an oracular deity; might have had some influence.

The Quest for the Shaman, Miranda and Stephen Aldhouse-Green is an exploration into the evidence for "sorcery and spirit-healing," as they call it, in ancient Europe.

The Way of the Oracle, Diana L. Paxson, discusses her forays into trying to reconstruct pre-christian oracular practices like seidr and the Delphic oracle.

Book 2, chapter 16 of the Life of St. Eligius (a Gallo-Roman Christian who died in 660), written shortly after his death, provides a long list of pagan things Christians should stop doing, so similar things might have been happening in Britain. http://fordham.edu/halsall/basis/eligius.asp

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 01:09:09 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

Most of what you're asking for sounds Celtic, but you also included English in that list. If you're also interested in anything Anglo-Saxon, there is Travels through Middle Earth by Alaric Abertsson
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 01:09:21 pm by Sage »
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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 01:32:20 pm »
Quote from: Sage;140830
Most of what you're asking for sounds Celtic, but you also included English in that list.


Which reminds me, here are some Anglo-Saxon charms: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/unc.htm

Aiwelin

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 02:36:05 pm »
Quote from: Sage;140830
Most of what you're asking for sounds Celtic, but you also included English in that list. If you're also interested in anything Anglo-Saxon, there is Travels through Middle Earth by Alaric Abertsson

 
Travels Through Middle Earth mostly talks specifically about Anglo-Saxon religion; for folk magic I found his book Wyrd Working to have vastly more resources.  YMMV :)
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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 05:59:13 am »
Quote from: Sage;140830
Most of what you're asking for sounds Celtic, but you also included English in that list. If you're also interested in anything Anglo-Saxon, there is Travels through Middle Earth by Alaric Abertsson

 
I say English in the sense of commonalities with the other groups listed. As the Brythons once dominated Britain from Southern Scotland on south. So, that would ne my second phade, so to speak. To see what English and Scottish folk magic has in common with their decidedly Brythonic counterparts. This way, a somewhat safe assumption can be made that if all of these peoples have a certain charm, spell, or what have you in common, it may well have come from the Ancient Brythons. Thank you for your help! :-)

PaganNotPerfect

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 06:01:58 am »
Quote from: Materialist;140828
A Guide to Ogam, Damian McManus, mentions a couple forms of divination used by the Irish.

Roman Britain: A New History, Guy de la Bedoyere, mentions haruspex, dream incubation and interpretation, which often used alcoholic beverages, so the cults of British Bacchus and Faunus Medigenus may have taken part. The cult of Serapis also spread to Britain, an oracular deity; might have had some influence.

The Quest for the Shaman, Miranda and Stephen Aldhouse-Green is an exploration into the evidence for "sorcery and spirit-healing," as they call it, in ancient Europe.

The Way of the Oracle, Diana L. Paxson, discusses her forays into trying to reconstruct pre-christian oracular practices like seidr and the Delphic oracle.

Book 2, chapter 16 of the Life of St. Eligius (a Gallo-Roman Christian who died in 660), written shortly after his death, provides a long list of pagan things Christians should stop doing, so similar things might have been happening in Britain. http://fordham.edu/halsall/basis/eligius.asp

 
That last suggestion in particular sounds interesting! Thank you!

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 12:00:14 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140872
That last suggestion in particular sounds interesting! Thank you!

 
A couple more things I've remembered: Romano-Britons also used curse tablets and amulets like charm rings (some of them imported) inscribed with the name of gods or protective magic words, or little figurines like a person bound with rope to protect against capture by enemies.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Danish and Norwegian tribes also settled in the United Kingdom, so seidr practices may have come with them. Some of it has to do with spinning yarn on weird, crooked sticks to bind spirits or effect other magical purposes. Unfortunately the academic website where I found the article (brepols.metapress.com), requires payment to read its stuff, but in case you're interested, it's "Into Viking Minds: Reinterpreting the Staffs of Sorcery and Unraveling Seidr," by Leszek Gardela, in Viking and Medieval Scandinavia volume 4, pp.45-84, 2008.

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Re: Brythonic Witchcraft
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 02:23:34 pm »
Quote from: PaganNotPerfect;140668
I'm looking for assistance in finding the commonalities of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and possibly English and Scottish Witchcraft. The reason why is so I may figure out what Witchcraft practices were employed by the Ancient Britons. Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. It is my hope to attempt to reconstruct them. Thank you in advance for any help!

I am not sure what you are seeking to achieve here?

The Brythonic people gave way to the Anglo Saxons from about the 5th CE and the Vikings arrived sometime in the 8th CE. In between we have the "dark ages" of which very little is really known. I do not see any way of identifying which of the later practices have a common root.

I've found many overlaps of  English witchcraft practices with other European and African practices. Did they come from a single source or  were they developed independently? There is really no way to be sure.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 02:24:54 pm by Vale »

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