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Author Topic: Health: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating  (Read 1984 times)

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2018, 02:19:49 pm »
The Bad Food Bible

Never read it... what's the central thrust? Does it argue in favor of sugar, or something?
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2018, 06:09:19 pm »
Side note: I  have never understood this thing about needing a sweetener to counter the acidity of tomatoes. 

Thinking about it further, I don't normally put sugar in tomato-based recipes either. It might have been needed with older breeds of tomatoes, which I've heard were much more acidic than today's varieties.

I'm also suspicious of sugar where it's not supposed to be -- jam is one thing, I expect that to be sweet. I do prefer the peanuts-only peanut butter, though, and the dill pickles and sauerkraut are sugar-free.

What really bugs me are the vegetable gums and waxes (guar, xanthan, carnauba etc.). Especially when they're used as substitutes for dairy fat. Also, 'silicon dioxide' in spice mixes - I mean, I know it's there to stop caking, and it's non-toxic, but it's still enough sand that they had to put it on the label!

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2018, 06:35:06 pm »
What really bugs me are the vegetable gums and waxes (guar, xanthan, carnauba etc.). Especially when they're used as substitutes for dairy fat

I assume you mean in non-vegan products? I agree that products that already contain animal products have no reason to use vegetable gums, but for Vegans, using them makes a lot of sense as a substitute.

There' also the issue of Kosher; you could use vegetable gum with meat and the product could still be Kosher, you couldn't use dairy fat alongside meat without rendering it terefah.

"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2018, 09:08:36 pm »
Thinking about it further, I don't normally put sugar in tomato-based recipes either. It might have been needed with older breeds of tomatoes, which I've heard were much more acidic than today's varieties.

I'm also suspicious of sugar where it's not supposed to be -- jam is one thing, I expect that to be sweet. I do prefer the peanuts-only peanut butter, though, and the dill pickles and sauerkraut are sugar-free.

What really bugs me are the vegetable gums and waxes (guar, xanthan, carnauba etc.). Especially when they're used as substitutes for dairy fat. Also, 'silicon dioxide' in spice mixes - I mean, I know it's there to stop caking, and it's non-toxic, but it's still enough sand that they had to put it on the label!
Because wheat is a big issue for me, and other grains are not great, i do some grain free baking. I use xanthan gum to replace the gluten in wheat - to make things hang together.


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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 04:13:46 pm »
I assume you mean in non-vegan products? I agree that products that already contain animal products have no reason to use vegetable gums, but for Vegans, using them makes a lot of sense as a substitute.

My main problem with them is that they replace fat-calories with (usually just as many) starch-calories in products that are marketed as 'healthier'. Also, while I'm not strictly speaking a 'whole foods' eater, my preferences do run that way, and I take this type of ingredient as an indicator of how processed a food is.

The whole idea of vegan substitutes is another issue and one that I can't wrap my head around. Why do people who don't want to eat animal products, dress up plants to resemble animal products as closely as possible? There's some cognitive dissonance going on there.

Quote
There' also the issue of Kosher; you could use vegetable gum with meat and the product could still be Kosher, you couldn't use dairy fat alongside meat without rendering it terefah.

I thought Kosher cooking usually uses meat fats in meat dishes? Like shmaltz, which is rendered chicken fat. Though that runs into the whole 'saturated fat = bad' issue.

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 05:55:08 pm »
I thought Kosher cooking usually uses meat fats in meat dishes? Like shmaltz, which is rendered chicken fat. Though that runs into the whole 'saturated fat = bad' issue.

Typically, yeah, but in mass produced kosher food, they use whatever is cheapest and still kosher. Animal fats can be expensive.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 05:58:17 pm »
The whole idea of vegan substitutes is another issue and one that I can't wrap my head around. Why do people who don't want to eat animal products, dress up plants to resemble animal products as closely as possible? There's some cognitive dissonance going on there.

I eat quite a lot of vegeterian meat substitutes myself, but my goal isn't to simulate meat. Rather, it's to get a quick, easy, cheap alternative to meat that is consistent with my morals.

If I had the time and the culinary skill, I would rather just eat healthy vegetable dishes, but veggie burgers and the like are convenient as heck; two minutes in the microwave, slap it on some bread, and ta-da you have a meat-free meal with a third of your RDV of protein.

Basically, vegetarian/vegan junk food exists for the same reason as meaty junk food...

...which might seem odd if you think of vegetarianism as a health thing. You have to remember that the vast majority of the world's vegetarians are east-asians and south-asians who abstain from meat for religious reasons, and that in the western world, lots of vegetarians avoid meat for ethical reasons and not health.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 06:00:05 pm by EnderDragonFire »
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

SunflowerP

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2018, 07:55:31 am »
Side note: I  have never understood this thing about needing a sweetener to counter the acidity of tomatoes.  I can only guess that somehow what others call acidity actually registers on my palate as sweetness,  because I find plain tomatoes far too sweet to make a savory sauce with and the addition of sugar as most people do makes them downright sickly.   I add wine dregs and very large amounts of basil and a bit of cumin for my perfect spaghetti sauce.

It's because the heat of cooking makes them more acidic (I sort of want to say, by breaking down their natural sugars, but I could well be way off base - whatever the chemistry behind it, the same thing happens with other fruits, as well; this is why we can eat apples straight, but if we make applesauce they'll need at least a little bit of sweetening). This varies a lot; some cultivars of tomato have more natural sugars, or less acidity, or both. And sometimes other spaghetti-sauce ingredients will add sweetness (or occasionally acidity).

Years ago, when I first ventured to make spaghetti sauce from scratch, one thing that struck me looking at various recipes was the inconsistency in how much sugar they called for - anywhere from 1 teaspoon to 2 tablespoons(!) for what seemed, from the rest of the recipe, to be similar volumes of sauce. So I decided, well, in that case, I'd leave it out unless and until tasting suggested it was needed. That plan worked perfectly, and is what I've done ever since; sometimes I decide it needs some, sometimes I decide it doesn't. (One thing I've found to reduce the likelihood of needing additional sweetening is to grate a carrot or two into the sauce at the beginning - carrots have natural sweetness, and are a great flavor boost in other ways [see also, mirepoix], and grating them, and adding them early, means they basically dissolve into the finished sauce.)

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PerditaPickle

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2018, 09:38:25 am »
Does it argue in favor of sugar, or something?

Gosh no - in fact sugar (or rather I should say, added sugar) is the main thing it's recommended to avoid.

Never read it... what's the central thrust?

I think it's safe to say that the central thrust is that we as consumers shouldn't necessarily believe news headlines which say something is good or bad for us, because they're often based on not very strong research, oversimplified, or 'cherry picked' etc.

About added sugar, however, there's apparently quite a substantial quantity of what amounts to strong research indicating that it's not good for us.

That's obviously quite an oversimplification.  I'd recommend the book to anyone who has any sort of interest in nutrition etc - it's actually very readable (it'd have to be, for me to have made it past the first few pages - can't cope with anything too technical).

Edit: added a word
"If I get on, Susan thought, it'll all start again.  I'll be out of the light and into the world beyond this one.  I'll fall off the tightrope.
But a voice inside her said, You want to, though...don't you...?
Ten seconds later, there was only the snow."
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Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2018, 09:45:25 am »
And things will be labeled “sugar free” and have dextrose (sugar) or maltose (sugar) or sugar alcohol (sugar). All of these things are bad for diabetics and others who need to avoid sugars - and would be buying sugar free. Asshats.


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Here in the UK we are cursed with a "sugar tax" which has meant that it is close to impossible to buy a soft drink which isn't full of artificial sweeteners.  Whist the intention was good, all it has meant is that manufacturers have replaced a natural substance with all manner of sweet tasting chemicals despite the mountain of evidence that the sweeteners may be even worse than sugar in causing obesity and diabetes as well as unproven risks of cancer and other illnesses.

I'm one of the ones who can also taste them - it's a nasty bitter metallic aftertaste which hangs around in my mouth for ages.

I usually end up drinking water as most stores have literally nothing else I can drink.  Original coke is the honourable exception but I have always found it much too sweet for me anyway.

PerditaPickle

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2018, 10:05:58 am »
The whole idea of vegan substitutes is another issue and one that I can't wrap my head around. Why do people who don't want to eat animal products, dress up plants to resemble animal products as closely as possible? There's some cognitive dissonance going on there.

My folks ran up against this issue, not with vegan substitutes but with vegetarian ones.  They were used to me as a vegetarian and while catering a volunteer thing they were involved in they thought it was safe to serve up veggie sausages in place of meat ones, but one of the guests was a vegetarian who refused to eat anything which masqueraded as meat, as well as meat itself (but hadn't advised them of this ahead of time).  My folks had thought they were doing a helpful thing, because I'm always moaning that the only veggie options I can seem to find when eating out, especially at lunch times (so prepackaged sandwiches and salads & stuff) are generally cheese & egg (although it's gradually getting to be a more varied selection).

For me, I like to try and eat the "same" meal as my dinner companions, so if for example I'm serving sausage and mashed potato to my husband then I'll have veggie sausages and mash - it simplifies the cooking process a fair bit, simplifies the decision what to eat for dinner a lot, minimises the meal prep, often, and of course the dish-washing, and it feels more companionable.  Although...

My way of dealing with it at the start was to just eat the same food as him, lots of pasta and meat, loads of carbs, rarely any veg. And to no ones surprise I gained a ton of weight because I do not share my boyfriends magical metabolism.

...yes, this happens - hence the original post.
"If I get on, Susan thought, it'll all start again.  I'll be out of the light and into the world beyond this one.  I'll fall off the tightrope.
But a voice inside her said, You want to, though...don't you...?
Ten seconds later, there was only the snow."
(Terry Pratchett's Hogfather)

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2018, 04:17:48 pm »
I think it's safe to say that the central thrust is that we as consumers shouldn't necessarily believe news headlines which say something is good or bad for us, because they're often based on not very strong research, oversimplified, or 'cherry picked' etc.

About added sugar, however, there's apparently quite a substantial quantity of what amounts to strong research indicating that it's not good for us.

Might read it. Sounds like it would be right up my alley; I'm constantly arguing with people about how their ideas about health science are skewed by mass media. I also have a love-hate relationship with sugar, and I'm trying to cut added sugar out of my diet.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2018, 04:20:35 pm »
Here in the UK we are cursed with a "sugar tax" which has meant that it is close to impossible to buy a soft drink which isn't full of artificial sweeteners.

Abandon soft drinks!

In the USA, there's no sugar tax, but they still don't use cane sugar, because corn sugar is cheaper, and I hate how it tastes. So, I've stopped drinking soda except occasionally, I drink imported soda from Latin America, which does usually have cane sugar.

Is imported soda available in the UK? I would imagine that if so, it's probably costlier than in the US.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Owl

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2018, 06:47:09 pm »
Here in the UK we are cursed with a "sugar tax" which has meant that it is close to impossible to buy a soft drink which isn't full of artificial sweeteners.  Whist the intention was good, all it has meant is that manufacturers have replaced a natural substance with all manner of sweet tasting chemicals despite the mountain of evidence that the sweeteners may be even worse than sugar in causing obesity and diabetes as well as unproven risks of cancer and other illnesses.

I'm one of the ones who can also taste them - it's a nasty bitter metallic aftertaste which hangs around in my mouth for ages.

I usually end up drinking water as most stores have literally nothing else I can drink.  Original coke is the honourable exception but I have always found it much too sweet for me anyway.
Wow. Just wow. Artificial sweeteners give me migraines - except for stevia, which is actually a natural sweetener. I am so sorry they are doing that.


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Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Developing healthy eating habits & overcoming barriers to healthy eating
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2018, 01:03:55 pm »
Abandon soft drinks!

In the USA, there's no sugar tax, but they still don't use cane sugar, because corn sugar is cheaper, and I hate how it tastes. So, I've stopped drinking soda except occasionally, I drink imported soda from Latin America, which does usually have cane sugar.

Is imported soda available in the UK? I would imagine that if so, it's probably costlier than in the US.



There are some premium brands that are still sweetener free but they were expensive before the additional tax was added. Now they are often 3x as expensive as an ordinary brand. I'm luckily able to pay for them but we don't drink a lot of soda anyway. For anyone on a low income the choice of avoiding sweeteners in sodas and cordials has been effectively removed from them.

Even Ocean Spray Cranberry juice now has sweeteners in every version. I found that the hard way when my glass tasted funny and my water kefir died . I no longer buy the brand.

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