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Author Topic: Health: Autism neurotypical talk?  (Read 7025 times)

PrincessKLS

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Autism neurotypical talk?
« on: January 11, 2016, 04:50:24 am »
I've noticed when reading through blogs and forums online that a lot of autistic people separate themselves so much from what they call neurotypical people to the point where it seems like they make themselves out to be even more unique then other disabled people. (And yes I know I am not using people first language but as a disabled person, I see it as my privilege to use the term, "disabled", able-bodied and minded people should not speak for me.) I've noticed over the decade or so there's become this sort of cult of autism where there seems to be a lot of political pandering and socio-political pull toward their  case to the point where they don't act sympathetic toward other people in the disabled community at large. To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 02:44:03 pm by RandallS »
PrincessKLS

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 04:54:47 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184961
I've noticed when reading through blogs and forums online that a lot of autistic people separate themselves so much from what they call neurotypical people to the point where it seems like they make themselves out to be even more unique then other disabled people. (And yes I know I am not using people first language but as a disabled person, I see it as my privilege to use the term, "disabled", able-bodied and minded people should not speak for me.) I've noticed over the decade or so there's become this sort of cult of autism where there seems to be a lot of political pandering and socio-political pull toward their  case to the point where they don't act sympathetic toward other people in the disabled community at large. To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?

 
Have you asked them? Also this is not my experience, i have a neurodiverse condition that is not autism and i mostly find people on the spectrum much more understanding and accepting about it than neurotypical people tend to be
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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 07:07:10 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184961
I've noticed when reading through blogs and forums online that a lot of autistic people separate themselves so much from what they call neurotypical people to the point where it seems like they make themselves out to be even more unique then other disabled people. (And yes I know I am not using people first language but as a disabled person, I see it as my privilege to use the term, "disabled", able-bodied and minded people should not speak for me.)

I've noticed over the decade or so there's become this sort of cult of autism where there seems to be a lot of political pandering and socio-political pull toward their  case to the point where they don't act sympathetic toward other people in the disabled community at large. To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?


Okay, first off (and I'm going to explode if I don't point this out) despite your best attempts to exercise privilege...congratulations, you've managed to use person-first language.

Person first: disabled person, autistic person
Not person first: person with disabilities, person with autism

So...good job, I guess?

Now then, to tackle the use of words. Because words mean things.

Neurotypical means to possess cognitive functioning that is in line with what society collectively codes as normal.

(Want to learn more?  http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/neurodiversity-some-basic-terms-definitions/ )

As such, you're basically complaining that people with a developmental disorder that is defined by divergent cognitive functioning are pointing out that they, in fact, have the aforementioned divergent cognitive functioning?

I can't even begin to get into how fucked up that is. But whatever.

The 'cult of autism' that you are complaining about is being spearheaded by Autism Speaks. It is very important that you understand that Autism Speaks is nearly universally reviled by actual autistic people. Autism Speaks pointedly tramples over the needs and experiences of actual autistic people in favor of promoting their own agenda: to somehow cure autism (as if it was a disease) and wipe that neurotype from the face of the earth. Does this sound like an ethical and worthwhile cause? I sure as hell don't think so.

Autistic people speak up about their differences and how they can be accommodated because it seems that if they keep silent then the is an alarming tendency for them to suffer abuse (and occasionally death) at the hands of neurotypical people who either mean well but are ignorant or are simply able to perpetrate such abuse due to the lack of a spotlight on their practices.

So yeah. Complaining about that is a really shitty thing to do.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 07:08:03 am by Allaya »
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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 10:01:49 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184961
I've noticed when reading through blogs and forums online that a lot of autistic people separate themselves so much from what they call neurotypical people to the point where it seems like they make themselves out to be even more unique then other disabled people. (And yes I know I am not using people first language but as a disabled person, I see it as my privilege to use the term, "disabled", able-bodied and minded people should not speak for me.) I've noticed over the decade or so there's become this sort of cult of autism where there seems to be a lot of political pandering and socio-political pull toward their  case to the point where they don't act sympathetic toward other people in the disabled community at large. To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?

 
What utter rubbish. Putting aside all the 'neurotypical' and 'people-first' jargon, what you're basically doing is whining that Handicap X isn't paying enough attention to Handicap Y's problems. Self-serving bollocks; it would be as if I was complaining that cerebral palsy would be fixed by now if it weren't for those bloody cancer patients hogging the limelight. You want sympathy and concern? Go out and advocate, make some noise, instead of whinging selfishly.
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PrincessKLS

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 02:04:01 pm »
Quote from: Castus;184984
What utter rubbish. Putting aside all the 'neurotypical' and 'people-first' jargon, what you're basically doing is whining that Handicap X isn't paying enough attention to Handicap Y's problems. Self-serving bollocks; it would be as if I was complaining that cerebral palsy would be fixed by now if it weren't for those bloody cancer patients hogging the limelight. You want sympathy and concern? Go out and advocate, make some noise, instead of whinging selfishly.


Sorry I didn't mean to offend but that's how some of their arguments I read come across as. I'm not expert on this of course but I didn't understand why people were putting in a divide. Also I've been told "people first language" is when you say "person/people with "said disability". That it was trying to get away from the non-people first language by saying "autistic" for example. I understand confronting certain aspects of "disability culture" is controversial and is often met with hostility, but I really to know why some of these autistic people seemed so ego-centric. I'm not saying that a disabled person can't speak up for their needs but I simply didn't understand why they were calling other people neurotypical.
PrincessKLS

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 02:13:32 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184993
Sorry I didn't mean to offend but that's how some of their arguments I read come across as. I'm not expert on this of course but I didn't understand why people were putting in a divide. Also I've been told "people first language" is when you say "person/people with "said disability". That it was trying to get away from the non-people first language by saying "autistic" for example. I understand confronting certain aspects of "disability culture" is controversial and is often met with hostility, but I really to know why some of these autistic people seemed so ego-centric. I'm not saying that a disabled person can't speak up for their needs but I simply didn't understand why they were calling other people neurotypical.

*facepalm*

autism (noun) from German Autismus, coined 1912 by Swiss psychiatrist Paul Bleuler (1857-1939) from combined form of Greek autos- "self" + –ismos suffix "of action" or "of state".

And AGAIN: Neurotypical means to possess cognitive functioning that is in line with what society collectively codes as normal.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:15:14 pm by Allaya »
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People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

Jack

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 03:15:22 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184961
To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?

 
This has not been my experience either, my experience has been more aligned with Jake's. But then, I'm not neurotypical either, I have 'other neurological disabilities' as you put it.

Neurotypical is like cisgender, it's intended to be a factual description rather than a judgement.
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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 03:23:34 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184993
I'm not saying that a disabled person can't speak up for their needs but I simply didn't understand why they were calling other people neurotypical.

 
Because minority communities tend to like having words for majority-trait people other than "the normal ones", given that "the normal ones" as a concept is a tool of violence and marginalisation.

A word specifically for people who do not have autism is "allistic".
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 06:52:53 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;184996

A word specifically for people who do not have autism is "allistic".


I like this word (in terms of its grammar/derivation that is). It kind of parallels the combination of trans<-->cis. Which i think is what you were getting at, yes?

I am now wondering if there exists any speculative fiction about a world were autism is the majority trait and allistic people are the atypical ones.

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 06:58:08 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;185010
I am now wondering if there exists any speculative fiction about a world were autism is the majority trait and allistic people are the atypical ones.

You just made my writerbrain asplode.
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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 07:25:03 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;185010
I like this word (in terms of its grammar/derivation that is). It kind of parallels the combination of trans<-->cis. Which i think is what you were getting at, yes?

I am now wondering if there exists any speculative fiction about a world were autism is the majority trait and allistic people are the atypical ones.

 
I don't know, but there's a few pages about that in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, when Arthur looks for new homes after Earth exploded. It is never stated outright that it is the planet of Aspies, but it is certainly written as if it is playing off that old "I feel like I'm from another planet" line.
Out in the woods, and I\'m not alone, but the sun\'s quickly going down!
There! In the trees! Something stalking me! Stop walking around!
\'K, just be cool, don\'t be such a fool! There is nothing at all to fear...
... other than the trees and the night and a beam of light, and the breathing in my ear...
[/I]

Elding

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 07:37:14 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;184961
I've noticed when reading through blogs and forums online that a lot of autistic people separate themselves so much from what they call neurotypical people to the point where it seems like they make themselves out to be even more unique then other disabled people. (And yes I know I am not using people first language but as a disabled person, I see it as my privilege to use the term, "disabled", able-bodied and minded people should not speak for me.) I've noticed over the decade or so there's become this sort of cult of autism where there seems to be a lot of political pandering and socio-political pull toward their  case to the point where they don't act sympathetic toward other people in the disabled community at large. To my understanding, there's other neurological disabilities out there that can cause socialization problems as well as other issues. So why is it when autistic people on the web speak up about their differences to what they call neurotypical people,why do they not show sympathy or concern for other neurological disabilities?

Yes, but you're kind of forgetting that Autism is distinguished by the fact that we are typically bad at communicating. The "act sympathetically" might be a natural thing to you, but it is communication of a message, and that can be rather exhausting to those of us who are Autistic. We might not realize that it is a polite thing to do (or we might not do it anyway because it can be hard to know when it is good and when it is annoying), or we simply don't want to do it because it is draining and requires thinking about behaving in this or that way, which simply doesn't come as naturally to us as it does to a neurotypical person.

Besides, we're just people who come together to help each other deal with a disability (or whatever you define Autism to be). We're just people who are trying to get our lives together, and it isn't some sort of collective goal of all Aspies world-wide to fight for other people because we're busy fighting for ourselves. Just like it isn't the goal of cancer patients to find the cure for asthma.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 07:38:33 pm by Elding »
Out in the woods, and I\'m not alone, but the sun\'s quickly going down!
There! In the trees! Something stalking me! Stop walking around!
\'K, just be cool, don\'t be such a fool! There is nothing at all to fear...
... other than the trees and the night and a beam of light, and the breathing in my ear...
[/I]

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 11:07:56 pm »
Quote from: Elding;185021

We're just people who are trying to get our lives together, and it isn't some sort of collective goal of all Aspies world-wide to fight for other people because we're busy fighting for ourselves. Just like it isn't the goal of cancer patients to find the cure for asthma.

 
Thiiiiiiissss

- a probably allistic person who was going to write something to that effect
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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 06:32:08 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;185013
You just made my writerbrain asplode.

 
I ... hope you mean that in a good way? I had a few ideas go through my head myself, but nothing really coherent.

PrincessKLS

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Re: Autism neurotypical talk?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 08:45:18 pm »
Quote from: Elding;185021
Yes, but you're kind of forgetting that Autism is distinguished by the fact that we are typically bad at communicating. The "act sympathetically" might be a natural thing to you, but it is communication of a message, and that can be rather exhausting to those of us who are Autistic. We might not realize that it is a polite thing to do (or we might not do it anyway because it can be hard to know when it is good and when it is annoying), or we simply don't want to do it because it is draining and requires thinking about behaving in this or that way, which simply doesn't come as naturally to us as it does to a neurotypical person.

Besides, we're just people who come together to help each other deal with a disability (or whatever you define Autism to be). We're just people who are trying to get our lives together, and it isn't some sort of collective goal of all Aspies world-wide to fight for other people because we're busy fighting for ourselves. Just like it isn't the goal of cancer patients to find the cure for asthma.

 

Well thank you that answers some of my questions.
PrincessKLS

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