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Author Topic: Who leads the Tuatha De?  (Read 2602 times)

MattyG

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Who leads the Tuatha De?
« on: June 23, 2015, 05:09:42 pm »
Irish polytheists are in an interesting place compared to the Norse and Hellenics, because our surviving mythology does not clearly identify who is in charge of the gods at this point in time. The Norse know that Odin leads, while the Hellenics know that Zeus leads, but Irish mythology shows kingship changing hands many times and, due to euhemerization, identifies most of them as being dead. That said:

Who do you identify, if anyone, as the rightful king of the Tuatha De? Nuada? Lugh? The Dagda? Does it matter?

Personally, I like viewing the power structures of the Tuatha De as being fairly fluid, in order to deal with issues that arise. I suppose that I default to viewing Nuada as the rightful king, with Dagda as a Druid and Ogma as a champion, but I can see great arguments made for Lugh being rightful king as well. I'm curious as to how others view these dynamics?

Micheál

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Re: Who leads the Tuatha De?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 05:37:47 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;176420


Who do you identify, if anyone, as the rightful king of the Tuatha De? Nuada? Lugh? The Dagda? Does it matter?

Oh that would be An Daghdha all day long! The All-Father who can tryst with An Morrígan is the rightful king for sure...

Honestly though I don't think it matters much since we can't take the myths literally,  especially since the Tuatha Dé in the legends are a kind of literacy compilation by people that were knowledgeable about Greek myths making them a handy pantheon for an Irish pseudo history. They're definitely some of greater deities, but I personally view them more regional& ancestral. I'd pay homage to Nuada especially around Maynooth, Lugh in Louth, e.t.c, however An Daghdha&Lugh are gods that I closely honour more often.

sionnachdearg

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Re: Who leads the Tuatha De?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 04:34:20 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;176420
Irish polytheists are in an interesting place compared to the Norse and Hellenics, because our surviving mythology does not clearly identify who is in charge of the gods at this point in time. The Norse know that Odin leads, while the Hellenics know that Zeus leads, but Irish mythology shows kingship changing hands many times and, due to euhemerization, identifies most of them as being dead. That said:

Who do you identify, if anyone, as the rightful king of the Tuatha De? Nuada? Lugh? The Dagda? Does it matter?

Personally, I like viewing the power structures of the Tuatha De as being fairly fluid, in order to deal with issues that arise. I suppose that I default to viewing Nuada as the rightful king, with Dagda as a Druid and Ogma as a champion, but I can see great arguments made for Lugh being rightful king as well. I'm curious as to how others view these dynamics?

 
I think the problem is that the Greek/Roman Pantheon is very much unlike the Gods and Goddesses of both the Germanic and Celtic people. Personally I think there were tribal gods and goddesses which were blended together in the writing of the Irish tales. The Norse pantheon as presented by the year 1000 had already been influenced but the Romans and by Christianity. In the book 'Old Norse religion in long term perspectives' the authors look at changes in religious practices especially in Sweden. Also it the book 'Pagan Goddesses in the Early Germanic World' The author also suggests that at least in Germanic Religions there is more evidence that the Goddesses were tribal, local or even familial.

Dagda is a title as much as it is a name. He also had other titles as well Eochaid Ollathair and Ruad Rofhessa as well as others I believe. So I find him to be a trible god and not part of a pantheon organized as in the Roman/Greek presentation of the gods and goddesses.

Tulach

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Re: Who leads the Tuatha De?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 12:24:29 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;176420
Irish polytheists are in an interesting place compared to the Norse and Hellenics, because our surviving mythology does not clearly identify who is in charge of the gods at this point in time. The Norse know that Odin leads, while the Hellenics know that Zeus leads, but Irish mythology shows kingship changing hands many times and, due to euhemerization, identifies most of them as being dead. That said:

Who do you identify, if anyone, as the rightful king of the Tuatha De? Nuada? Lugh? The Dagda? Does it matter?

Personally, I like viewing the power structures of the Tuatha De as being fairly fluid, in order to deal with issues that arise. I suppose that I default to viewing Nuada as the rightful king, with Dagda as a Druid and Ogma as a champion, but I can see great arguments made for Lugh being rightful king as well. I'm curious as to how others view these dynamics?


As someone who lives and breathes in Scotland, the Tuatha De as a group of Gods are virtually non existent. We only see the “tribe of Gods” represented in Irish Myths, which were written down after the Christianization of Ireland. The earliest name of the so called “Tuatha De” is Dei Terrani or “Gods of the earth” but again, the name is Latin and clearly comes from a Christian perspective, not a Pagan one.

No where else in the Gaelic lands are the infamous Tuatha De Dannan  mentioned. So as regards to your question, no.  I don't think it matters at all who leads the Tuatha De as we don't even know if such a group of Gods were acknowledged by the Pagan Irish (I personally doubt it).

If you look at the Irish landscape (and the rest of the Gaelic lands) and the accounts of “Heathenism” documented through out the ages (choose your preferred era), you'll notice that land Goddesses and localized deities were far more favoured than worshipping a congregation of Gods.

My practice is strictly Scottish so instead of honouring the deities (like most Polytheists do) I prefer to worship the local spirits and the ancestors instead. That doesn’t mean I won't ignore the local deity (or Gods), it's just that animism was more of a tradition in Scotland than Polytheism.

Hope that answers your question :)
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