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Author Topic: Learning a Celtic Language  (Read 13358 times)

Celtag

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 09:14:01 am »
Quote from: cigfran;39966
What resources are you using to learn Welsh? I need to learn it myself and, well... as you know, the difficulties are pretty daunting.
It's called Say Something Welsh, it's a free internet course. http://www.saysomethinginwelsh.com/home/. I have gotten through about 5 lessons and I am picking it up rather well.
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Tenorbear2

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 06:03:58 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;38494
Who here is learning or speak a Celtic language?
.


I'm looking for a program to learn to speak Irish-Gaelic.  I'd like to be able to use the language for spell work but I'd also like to be able to sing in the language. I'm a singer and one of the groups I sing with is doing a concert of Celtic music in March. We're not able to sing anything in Gaelic because none of us knows how to pronounce the words. Singing is a big part of the craft for me and I'd like to be able to connect through language to the spiritual foundation of my ancestors - pre-Christian.

Tenorbear2

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 06:14:35 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;39944
(Sorry to be coming back to this after so much time.  I've been struggling with a killer headache all week.  But I wanted to jump off of this post.)

I think learning a Celtic language would be a wonderful thing, and might indeed provide additional perspective on the culture, history, mythology, and spirituality.  I imagine that praying to the Celtic gods in a Celtic language would be very fulfilling.

However, I think it's presumptuous to assume that everyone who worships a Celtic deity even has the capacity to learn a Celtic language, regardless of whether s/he wants to or not.


~ Aster


There couldn't possibly be a defensable reason for telling people they have to try to learn the original language of the traditions we try to follow. Even if we learn the modern languages we're not speaking the originals. Ever hear Beowolf read in Old English? It sounds like German with a Scottish accent. You can't understand a word of it!  LOL!  No, we learn languages for ourselves not for the divine. The divine don't need language, eh?  You're right - it's hubris to cut down those who have no interest in learning a new language and the magick isn't in the words. It's in the intent.

Sorchae

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 07:40:28 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;38494
Who here is learning or speak a Celtic language? Do you think as a Celtic Pagan you should at least learn to speak some of a Celtic Language. I am in the process of learning Welsh, I find the language very beautiful, but also challenging.

 
I am currently trying to self-teach myself Modern Irish-Gaelic, and I am loving the language so far. I love how it is written and spoken, and just find it magical and beautiful in its own way.

For me, learning the language of my Goddess helps me connect with Her with a lot more intensity than I would have without learning it, and also connects me with the culture in which She resides. However, I believe that deities are omnilingual, and that my Goddess can understand me in whatever language I speak to Her, so while I am trying to learn the language, I believe She won't be angry with me because I am not fluent in it. It is a nice touch to rituals and other workings to Her, however.

Any language, however, has its challenges, and Irish Gaelic is sure proving as such. Sometimes the pronunciations throw me off, but it doesn't as much anymore as I started taking my time to look at words alongside a pronunciation guide. The grammar also seems a bit difficult too, but I will learn it in time. Most of my sources for learning Irish come from online (primary source at the moment) and books (which I am going to be getting soon).

Rhyshadow

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 08:00:48 pm »
Quote from: Sorchae;44323
I am currently trying to self-teach myself Modern Irish-Gaelic, and I am loving the language so far. I love how it is written and spoken, and just find it magical and beautiful in its own way.


I'm in the same camp - self learning, and yes, it is a very musical and lovely language

Quote from: Sorchae;44323
For me, learning the language of my Goddess helps me connect with Her with a lot more intensity than I would have without learning it, and also connects me with the culture in which She resides. However, I believe that deities are omnilingual, and that my Goddess can understand me in whatever language I speak to Her, so while I am trying to learn the language, I believe She won't be angry with me because I am not fluent in it. It is a nice touch to rituals and other workings to Her, however.


So long as you're trying and the intent is there, I don't think She's too worried about it - I know that Brigid isn't slapping me upside the head because I may mis-speak something occasionally, but the other reason I'm learning it is to understand a lot of the traditional songs - translations just don't sound right for some reason, so to know the language brings more meaning and depth.

Quote from: Sorchae;44323
Any language, however, has its challenges, and Irish Gaelic is sure proving as such. Sometimes the pronunciations throw me off, but it doesn't as much anymore as I started taking my time to look at words alongside a pronunciation guide. The grammar also seems a bit difficult too, but I will learn it in time. Most of my sources for learning Irish come from online (primary source at the moment) and books (which I am going to be getting soon).

 
Ya, having studied German and French years ago, I can agree with that.  Sentence structure between different languages is challenging - though remember one thing that most linguists agree on - "For non-native speakers, English is the hardest language to learn."

Check your local library as well - I've been borrowing and re-borrowing "Spoken Word: Irish" for the past four months from my local system

Sorchae

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 12:43:46 am »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;44325
I'm in the same camp - self learning, and yes, it is a very musical and lovely language

So long as you're trying and the intent is there, I don't think She's too worried about it - I know that Brigid isn't slapping me upside the head because I may mis-speak something occasionally, but the other reason I'm learning it is to understand a lot of the traditional songs - translations just don't sound right for some reason, so to know the language brings more meaning and depth.


No, I don't think She is too worried about it. I get that feeling even when I know I might be mispronouncing things when I use some words in rituals and such. I want to understand the traditional songs as well. I want to also learn the traditional poems and prayers, and I agree wholeheartedly about knowing the language can bring more meaning and depth to the translation.
 
Quote from: Rhyshadow;44325
Ya, having studied German and French years ago, I can agree with that.  Sentence structure between different languages is challenging - though remember one thing that most linguists agree on - "For non-native speakers, English is the hardest language to learn."

Check your local library as well - I've been borrowing and re-borrowing "Spoken Word: Irish" for the past four months from my local system


I am hoping I can get ahold of the sentence structure. I know American Sign Language which has a similar grammar structure, but it is still vastly different, especially when Sign Language is used by the hands and Irish is vocal.

I will definitely check my local library! I never thought about that, so thank you tons for reminding me of something so simple. :) I will even look for the book which you mention and I hope it is there. Anything to help me learn I am willing to try. I wanted to get Rosetta Stone, but the price was way to pricey for me.

Oíche

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2012, 02:01:35 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;38494
Who here is learning or speak a Celtic language? Do you think as a Celtic Pagan you should at least learn to speak some of a Celtic Language. I am in the process of learning Welsh, I find the language very beautiful, but also challenging.

 
I'm in a funny position myself with Irish. I'm an Irish person born and raised in Ireland, I learned Irish as a compulsory subject in school for 14 years and yet came out without the ability to hold a simple conversation (the education system here does not teach you speak the language, only to memorise poems and phrases for exams!)
As a Irish-focused pagan I would LOVE to ideally conduct all my rituals in Irish but sadly cannot. :(
I'm even studying Celtic Civilisation in University here and will need the language (at least Old Irish which I start next year) eventually.
Part of my course this year looks at Welsh and :eek: is all I can say looking at it XD
One plan I have is to begin going to the Gaeltacht areas here (Irish speaking areas) to immerse myself in Irish and learn it finally! :D:
'You're my friend, and I love you- but you really look like a witch!!'

Rhyshadow

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2012, 02:44:06 pm »
Quote from: Cág;83897
I'm in a funny position myself with Irish. I'm an Irish person born and raised in Ireland, I learned Irish as a compulsory subject in school for 14 years and yet came out without the ability to hold a simple conversation (the education system here does not teach you speak the language, only to memorise poems and phrases for exams!)
As a Irish-focused pagan I would LOVE to ideally conduct all my rituals in Irish but sadly cannot. :(
I'm even studying Celtic Civilisation in University here and will need the language (at least Old Irish which I start next year) eventually.
Part of my course this year looks at Welsh and :eek: is all I can say looking at it XD
One plan I have is to begin going to the Gaeltacht areas here (Irish speaking areas) to immerse myself in Irish and learn it finally! :D:


Well, you're not far away from Gaeltacht - if I remember correctly, there's a small area not more than a dozen klicks or so from Cork itself.

Or you could take the tram/bus to Dingle; larger area with lots more native speakers than Co. Cork - I think the Co. Connemara and Co. Donegal areas are a bit too far from you

Gilbride

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2012, 03:29:01 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;38494
Who here is learning or speak a Celtic language? Do you think as a Celtic Pagan you should at least learn to speak some of a Celtic Language. I am in the process of learning Welsh, I find the language very beautiful, but also challenging.

 
I have a little Gaelic, enough to sing some songs and read some folk tales in the original. The language spoken by ancient pagans in Ireland and Scotland was pretty far removed from modern Gaelic and would have no mutual comprehension- unless "AVUOANNUNAOUATEDOVENI" just screams "Avuo Anuano soothsayer of the Doveni" to you.

I don't think everyone has to learn a Celtic language to worship Celtic deities, or else Epona wouldn't have been worshiped in Latin by German cavalry soldiers back in the day. Brighid has been venerated by non-Celtic speakers for many centuries now. It's part of Her nature to cross that sort of boundary.

My past experience is that this particular debate can be very destructive. If anything destroyed Imbas (the organization) it was this. I got caught up in the debate, took a dogmatic position, and burned out so badly in the ensuing flame wars that I left the pagan community for a decade.  

Learning a Celtic language is fun, singing Celtic songs is fun, the Celtic languages are struggling for survival and we should be aware and respectful of the existing cultures. At this point, I think it's best to leave it at that.

Oíche

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2012, 07:11:22 am »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;83902
Well, you're not far away from Gaeltacht - if I remember correctly, there's a small area not more than a dozen klicks or so from Cork itself.

Or you could take the tram/bus to Dingle; larger area with lots more native speakers than Co. Cork - I think the Co. Connemara and Co. Donegal areas are a bit too far from you

 
Aye! That's the handy thing. I used to hearing the Munster dialect now so I might stick down here although I think Connemara would be ok too. :)
Donegal Irish is a very different dialect to the rest of the country- it's similar to Scots Gaelic from what I've been told. The Donegal Irish section of the school listening exam is the most dreaded part for any kid here XD
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darkwhispersdale

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2013, 06:04:55 pm »
Quote from: Tenorbear2;42465
Ever hear Beowolf read in Old English? It sounds like German with a Scottish accent. You can't understand a word of it!  LOL!  No, we learn languages for ourselves not for the divine. The divine don't need language, eh?  You're right - it's hubris to cut down those who have no interest in learning a new language and the magick isn't in the words. It's in the intent.

 
Actually Beowulf doesn't sound that bad and when read aloud it is a little easier to understand in Old English. Personally from a language position I respect someone who learns a little of the language of the culture, extinct or modern, it broadens their horizons and helps them think differently.

Besides as a native Welsh woman who can't speak Welsh (unless it's rugby vocabulary) I'm glad there's people out there increasing the number of speakers and preserving the celtic cultural heritage.
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PhantomQueen

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 03:39:36 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;38494
Who here is learning or speak a Celtic language? Do you think as a Celtic Pagan you should at least learn to speak some of a Celtic Language. I am in the process of learning Welsh, I find the language very beautiful, but also challenging.

 
I'd love to be able to learn Irish gaelic.  For me it's not just finding somewhere to teach it and get the money together for it. It's being able to find othres to speak it with to keep fluent in the language.  There is an Irish Club in town, but by the time I get there it's more of a slur session-ie after a barrel or two of Guinness (or whatever the oiison of choice is).  Fortunealtel for me, Michael did mention a couple radio stations I could listen to online when we were on a different site.  

I don't htink it manadatory to learn a Celtic language.  It just strengthens the bond, I think.  And more of an appreciation on my part for my ancestors/background.

Oíche

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 05:17:53 pm »
Quote from: PhantomQueen;100873
I'd love to be able to learn Irish gaelic.  For me it's not just finding somewhere to teach it and get the money together for it. It's being able to find othres to speak it with to keep fluent in the language.  There is an Irish Club in town, but by the time I get there it's more of a slur session-ie after a barrel or two of Guinness (or whatever the oiison of choice is).  Fortunealtel for me, Michael did mention a couple radio stations I could listen to online when we were on a different site.  

I don't htink it manadatory to learn a Celtic language.  It just strengthens the bond, I think.  And more of an appreciation on my part for my ancestors/background.

 
Finding others is a big problem here too! We have a room in my uni that is for Irish speakers to get tea and chat but I've chickened out thus far XD
The radio stations are a good idea! There's one in Dublin too :)

An interesting thing we were discussing in my Celtic Languages class last week is that in the Gaeltacht areas there's now a huge problem with the standard of Irish spoken by young people. They now seem to be speaking Irish with an English structure- which is completely different. So now we have a problem where we have a large number of incorrect Irish speakers and the older generation can't understand them very well :/
There's talk of sending specialist speech therapists in to try and correct it!
'You're my friend, and I love you- but you really look like a witch!!'

PhantomQueen

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 03:04:14 pm »
Quote from: Cág;100886
An interesting thing we were discussing in my Celtic Languages class last week is that in the Gaeltacht areas there's now a huge problem with the standard of Irish spoken by young people. They now seem to be speaking Irish with an English structure- which is completely different. So now we have a problem where we have a large number of incorrect Irish speakers and the older generation can't understand them very well :/
There's talk of sending specialist speech therapists in to try and correct it!

 
There's a Gaeltacht here in Northern Ontario, and Irish is spoken in the Avalon penninsula of Newfoundland apparently.  I don't know if the same problem is taking place there or not.  I have heard though that in Quebec the french has been anglicised quite a bit and when they travel to Francethere's a noticeable difference in dialect etc.  I think there's going to be a shift in the language over time.  Look at English-we definitely don't sound anything like the English from Shakespeare's time...

Oíche

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Re: Learning a Celtic Language
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 06:30:04 pm »
Quote from: PhantomQueen;101109
There's a Gaeltacht here in Northern Ontario, and Irish is spoken in the Avalon penninsula of Newfoundland apparently.  I don't know if the same problem is taking place there or not.  I have heard though that in Quebec the french has been anglicised quite a bit and when they travel to Francethere's a noticeable difference in dialect etc.  I think there's going to be a shift in the language over time.  Look at English-we definitely don't sound anything like the English from Shakespeare's time...

 
Really? :) That's awesome! I've heard about Gaelic-speaking areas over in Nova Scotia too. :)

Aye, it's interesting how much one language can influence another- even modern Irish has words that come from Norse and the Norman French.
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