The Hermaphrodite Deity of the Moon

[Keiyaku]

Something that I have been thinking about lately is that the deities of Wicca are associated with the Sun and the Moon. No problem there, it just occurred to me that the light of the Moon is just a reflection of the Sun's light. This probably isn't a big deal for most people, but to me it seems strange, sort of like it de-values the Lunar Deity a bit.

I recently came up with a solution. The prevailing theory is that a Mars sized celestial object called Theia crashed into the proto-Earth. The ejected debris would form the moon. So, associate the God/Goddess with the Sun and the Earth, and the Moon with a third hermaphroditic deity, possibly the child of the God and Goddess to fit in with the "Made of proto-Earth dust but lit by the sun" thing. This would also be stepping even further outside of the binary gender system by giving gender queer individuals a patron.

I don't know what I'm saying. Just some insane ramblings.

[Erinnightwalker]

 
Brings a whole new shine to the "Child of Promise" idea. I don't think your ramblings are insane at all. Pretty good food for thought, as a matter of fact.

[Asch]

Something that I have been thinking about lately is that the deities of Wicca are associated with the Sun and the Moon. No problem there, it just occurred to me that the light of the Moon is just a reflection of the Sun's light. This probably isn't a big deal for most people, but to me it seems strange, sort of like it de-values the Lunar Deity a bit.

I recently came up with a solution. The prevailing theory is that a Mars sized celestial object called Theia crashed into the proto-Earth. The ejected debris would form the moon. So, associate the God/Goddess with the Sun and the Earth, and the Moon with a third hermaphroditic deity, possibly the child of the God and Goddess to fit in with the "Made of proto-Earth dust but lit by the sun" thing. This would also be stepping even further outside of the binary gender system by giving gender queer individuals a patron.

I don't know what I'm saying. Just some insane ramblings.

 
Don't forget about the massive gravitational influence of the moon on Earth, and that power is all its own.

[Catherine]

Don't forget about the massive gravitational influence of the moon on Earth, and that power is all its own.

Yep, pretty much my thinking on the matter.
 
The sun does what it does, as does the moon. I don't see any point in assigning a gender to either of them. There was a time when I did, but it doesn't make much sense to me now.

[monsnoleedra]

Something that I have been thinking about lately is that the deities of Wicca are associated with the Sun and the Moon. No problem there, it just occurred to me that the light of the Moon is just a reflection of the Sun's light. This probably isn't a big deal for most people, but to me it seems strange, sort of like it de-values the Lunar Deity a bit.

I recently came up with a solution. The prevailing theory is that a Mars sized celestial object called Theia crashed into the proto-Earth. The ejected debris would form the moon. So, associate the God/Goddess with the Sun and the Earth, and the Moon with a third hermaphroditic deity, possibly the child of the God and Goddess to fit in with the "Made of proto-Earth dust but lit by the sun" thing. This would also be stepping even further outside of the binary gender system by giving gender queer individuals a patron.

I don't know what I'm saying. Just some insane ramblings.

I suppose for me I tend to fall into the Chaladean and Later Greek view point that the moon is a liminal spot.  It is neither heaven nor earth as such it holds no persona.  I suppose the best way I see it is that it is a beacon and holds the message of the gods / goddesses and carried to manking via the daemon who are to be found there in thier halfway position between mankind and divinity.

Then factor in the bright of the new moon, the darkness of the moon or the daily position of the moon and you have the three worlds and reflection of which apsect of diety is speaking.  ie celestial, chthonic or something inbetween

[dragonfaerie]

Something that I have been thinking about lately is that the deities of Wicca are associated with the Sun and the Moon.

Unless you're British Traditional Wicca, there really aren't any "deities of Wicca". Yes, there's the generic "Lord and Lady" of eclectic Wicca, but that's not the only approach to deity that Wiccans utilize. I'm personally a hard polytheist who works primarily with Irish deities.

At any rate, there are also masculine Lunar deities out there, at least, according to Wikipedia. I think it's kind of natural to associate the 28 day lunar cycle with the roughly 28-day menstrual cycle, but that's not a moral imperative or anything.

Karen

[SunflowerP]

I think it's kind of natural to associate the 28 day lunar cycle with the roughly 28-day menstrual cycle, but that's not a moral imperative or anything.

 
Not so much at you, Karen, as at Things That Make Me Twitch:  I'd find it a lot more natural if the lunar cycle that's most readily/directly observable from Earth was 28 days long, instead of 29.5 (from what I can find on Wikipedia, none of the several cycles is 28 days; there's the 29.5 day synodic one, and the others are all between 27 and 27.5-and-a-smidge - none of those are lunacentric, though, and I'd had the idea that, from a lunacentric POV, i.e. light and dark periods as seen from a given point on the moon, there's a cycle closer to 28 days).  

All of which are pretty close on that menstrual-cycle average - 'cept that individual women deviate from that average far, far more than the moon's various cycles.  So, frankly, I'd say that anyone making a moral imperative out of it based on those reasons is a prat who can't be bothered to make empirical observations.

Sunflower

[AlisonLeighLilly]

At any rate, there are also masculine Lunar deities out there, at least, according to Wikipedia.

 
I'm one of those folks who has always felt the moon to have a masculine energy and the sun to have a feminine energy. Maybe this stems from my work with Brighid as a solar/fire goddess and with Manannan as a god of the sea (and thus of the tides) and the mists (and so too the kind of liminal space of the unconscious, which for me also has strong connections to the moon). I haven't seen Manannan connected with the moon in any of the traditional mythology, but as a psychopomp and trickster it makes a lot of sense to me - just UPG.

--Ali

[Darkhawk]

All of which are pretty close on that menstrual-cycle average - 'cept that individual women deviate from that average far, far more than the moon's various cycles.

 
When I menstruated unregulatedly (as opposed to on the pill or, currently, not perceptibly much at all) it was on a 30 plus or minus five day cycle with a few longer outliers.  I've always found the "obvious" connection to the lunar cycles not so terribly obvious, for, well, obvious reasons.

[Maps]

I'm one of those folks who has always felt the moon to have a masculine energy and the sun to have a feminine energy.

I've always felt the same way; I've always been irked by the traditional magical gender binary of feminine = passive, masculine = active. So when my works of fiction and comics required a set of primary celestial deities, I made the sun primarily a female deity, the night sky (the spaces between the starstuff) a primarily masculine deity, and the moon a slightly masculine, but predominantly agendered deity. (The stories take place on an alien world, though, so their color and planetary assoiations are a bit different than ours anyways.)

Personally, this all stems from my menstrual/fertility issues, and androgynous and asexual tendencies. :B

[dragonfaerie]

So, frankly, I'd say that anyone making a moral imperative out of it based on those reasons is a prat who can't be bothered to make empirical observations.

 
Some people are *really* into their cycle, I guess.

I'd love to find some real evidence that ancient tribes did connect the female menstrual cycle to the moon. It's a common enough idea in the Pagan community, but is it true? I at least know that when women live together, their cycles sync up... 10+ years of living with my mother when we were both fertile is proof of that. We'd get it within a few days of each other.

Karen

[monsnoleedra]

Some people are *really* into their cycle, I guess.

I'd love to find some real evidence that ancient tribes did connect the female menstrual cycle to the moon. It's a common enough idea in the Pagan community, but is it true? I at least know that when women live together, their cycles sync up... 10+ years of living with my mother when we were both fertile is proof of that. We'd get it within a few days of each other.

Karen

I recall being told , either by grand-mother or great-aunt don't recall which now, that the moon cycle didn't hold to the 28 day period.  It was more about the 12 or 13 moons that mark the year.  It was about the similarity of the moon passage to that of a woman's menstural cycle, ie the light flow starting, the heavy flow at mid point then the wanning or lessening flow as her time ended.  In that regard it matched the moon, the filling in of the moon, the bright and full facet of the moon then the fading or lessening period that marked the end of the cycle.  Even to the extent of the duration of the moon cycle as it built up to the new moon then passed through it, abt 7 days if I recall correctly.

Now perhaps that was all because I am a male and the female mysteries were not really part of our training beyond the surface.  But it is how I do equate and recall the moon's connection to a woman's menstural cycle.

[SunflowerP]

I at least know that when women live together, their cycles sync up... 10+ years of living with my mother when we were both fertile is proof of that. We'd get it within a few days of each other.

 
More likely to have been either coincidence, or a result of genetically-based similarities in cycle length - that one's been researched and found to not actually happen, at any rate in situations involving significant numbers of unrelated women/people with plumbing coded female, e.g. college dorms (no time to find you links on the research right now, but let me know if you want 'em and I'll dig 'em up).

Sunflower

[SunflowerP]

I recall being told , either by grand-mother or great-aunt don't recall which now, that the moon cycle didn't hold to the 28 day period.  It was more about the 12 or 13 moons that mark the year.  It was about the similarity of the moon passage to that of a woman's menstural cycle, ie the light flow starting, the heavy flow at mid point then the wanning or lessening flow as her time ended.  In that regard it matched the moon, the filling in of the moon, the bright and full facet of the moon then the fading or lessening period that marked the end of the cycle.  Even to the extent of the duration of the moon cycle as it built up to the new moon then passed through it, abt 7 days if I recall correctly.

Now perhaps that was all because I am a male and the female mysteries were not really part of our training beyond the surface.  But it is how I do equate and recall the moon's connection to a woman's menstural cycle.

 
Except that doesn't match either - duration of menstruation is as variable as duration of overall cycle among individuals (with the average being more like 5 days), and the point of heavy flow isn't typically in the middle, it's usually at, or very shortly after, the beginning.

So, yeah, I'd guess that "male and not privy to those Mysteries" probably comes into play there; that sounds to me like either a simplification or a metaphor, or both.

Sunflower

[monsnoleedra]

Except that doesn't match either - duration of menstruation is as variable as duration of overall cycle among individuals (with the average being more like 5 days), and the point of heavy flow isn't typically in the middle, it's usually at, or very shortly after, the beginning.

So, yeah, I'd guess that "male and not privy to those Mysteries" probably comes into play there; that sounds to me like either a simplification or a metaphor, or both.

Sunflower

With either of them its probable it was a metaphor.  Both were very much into the what seem's logical and visible is seldom logical and visible when you really look at it.  In some ways I can hear both of them telling me how when the moon is full and bright you think you see and she shows but your wrong.  When you think the moon is dark and hidden you figure she is to but again wrong for if one looks there is a lot visible.

I know for my wife she somewhat fits the moon though.  She's showing when it starts but not blouted to a great extent.  By the middle phase abt day 2 or 3 she says she feels as large as a full moon and water reminds her of being pregnant (especially back pain) the last few days the blouting passes and she slowly returns to her self.  Usually lasting 4 - 7 days with 5 or 6 being the norm.