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Author Topic: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals  (Read 849 times)

Eastling

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A few months ago, I thought my gods were calling me to ancestor worship; it turned out they were telling me to look into actually worshipping certain deified mortals. I've been working that out ever since, and I've gotten an amazing amount of spiritual and personal mileage out of it. But it's left me with a few questions.

One--has anyone else had similar experiences, wherein a known Power or set of Powers points them at worshipping the apotheosis of a historical human being? In my case, I was following gods who had very clearly previously identified themselves as Dionysos and his wife Ariadne when I got told to do the new thing as well--I have a suspicion these particular gods may do it more often, since they're so associated with the process of apotheosis (see various studies of Dionysian imagery on funerary art; the one that's stuck with me most is Kerenyi's discussion of it in Dionysos: Archetypal Image of Indestructible Life). But I don't know.

Two, and it's a bit more complicated...how do you handle it when one of the deified mortals you're naturally being led to is more apotheosizing than already apotheosized--that is to say, still alive? For a while I was simply ignoring that question, but I strongly suspect my life actually needs the energy of this particular Power-to-be, and I'm not sure how to approach that.
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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 06:32:35 pm »

Two, and it's a bit more complicated...how do you handle it when one of the deified mortals you're naturally being led to is more apotheosizing than already apotheosized--that is to say, still alive? For a while I was simply ignoring that question, but I strongly suspect my life actually needs the energy of this particular Power-to-be, and I'm not sure how to approach that.

No personal experience on this, but you should definitely look up Haile Selassi and the Rastafarians, which is the only recent example I can think of.

You might also find some parallels in pop-culture paganism, as regards celebrity culture. Most fans probably wouldn't call what they do 'worship', but ...

Corr

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 03:10:27 am »
There are examples of this in Hinduism.  That might be a place to look.

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 11:14:38 am »
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Corr

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 01:25:50 pm »
A Reminder:
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Just a quick note:  Please remember to quote, even if you're just replying to the first message in the thread.  It makes the discussion easier to follow, and it's required by our rules. (If you're using tapatalk on a phone, please hold your finger down on the message you wish to reply to until the quote function pops up.)

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Thanks for the reminder Darkhawk. 😊

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Jack

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 05:39:38 am »
There are examples of this in Hinduism.  That might be a place to look.

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Do you have a place you'd recommend starting looking? There's... Kind of a lot of Hinduism.

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 06:12:42 am »
Do you have a place you'd recommend starting looking? There's... Kind of a lot of Hinduism.

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 08:28:02 am »
Do you have a place you'd recommend starting looking? There's... Kind of a lot of Hinduism.

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That is fair.  What I am talking about is the Avatar phenomenon (and no, not the TV show).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

It is basically the living embodiment of a god or god-power within a form on Earth.  It usually is a person, but I think it can also be in the form of an animal or a plant.  A friend of mine from college is part of a sect of Hinduism where they follow a man who is believed to be an avatar of Brahma.
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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 03:00:56 pm »
That is fair.  What I am talking about is the Avatar phenomenon (and no, not the TV show)
Tbh I'm vaguely offended that you felt the need to tack on the bit about the TV show. We're basically a forum filled with people who don't get invited to parties because our light cocktail conversation consists of references to obscure occultic theologians.

Anyway,

Eastling I'm pretty familiar with the worship of deified mortals, albeit in a very specific context. I also have a book examining the Imperial Cult in Asia Minor which, if you think it would be of help to you, I'll gladly post over to you.
Remember him, O Lord, in Thy Kingdom, Thy faithful servant Tau Harmonius, bishop of the Gnosis, and a knower of the things that are, who like his predecessors of old gave his life and blood for the Truth that makes men free. Grant him we pray thee, a place of refreshment, a blessed tranquility, and the splendor of Thy Gnosis. We thank Thee, O eternal One, for the example of this faithful shepherd, who gave up his earthly life in Thy service, and we pray that inspired by his heroic virtue we may also bear witness to the Gnosis of Love, Liberty and Light, and may with him at length enter into Thine ineffable splendor and unending joy. Amen.

Jack

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2017, 03:55:20 pm »
That is fair.  What I am talking about is the Avatar phenomenon (and no, not the TV show).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

It is basically the living embodiment of a god or god-power within a form on Earth.  It usually is a person, but I think it can also be in the form of an animal or a plant.  A friend of mine from college is part of a sect of Hinduism where they follow a man who is believed to be an avatar of Brahma.
I would have thought that was the opposite of apotheosis, personally.

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 10:45:39 pm »
I would have thought that was the opposite of apotheosis, personally.

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To be honest, I don't know of any examples where someone had attained god-hood while they were alive.  I am not saying it is not possible, just that I have not heard if it (although Elvis Presley is really close as far as I can tell).  All the examples I have seen are people who are expressions or avatars of a higher god-power or situations where they are believed to be decendents​ of a god (and in that case has god power by right of blood).

Is the OP looking for information on the later of the two?

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Ashmire

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 02:18:43 am »
To be honest, I don't know of any examples where someone had attained god-hood while they were alive.  I am not saying it is not possible, just that I have not heard if it (although Elvis Presley is really close as far as I can tell).  All the examples I have seen are people who are expressions or avatars of a higher god-power or situations where they are believed to be decendents​ of a god (and in that case has god power by right of blood).

I think Shinto has some cases of this, if for no other reason than one Japanese definition of godhood is simply being exceptional in some way.   I cannot remember the woman's name and haven't been able to find it on Google, but there was a fairly ordinary housewife or something a few years ago who was being worshipped, and I believe it was not as being either of the two situations you suggested, but considered to be apotheosis in her own right.

Eastling

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 07:35:30 pm »
No personal experience on this, but you should definitely look up Haile Selassi and the Rastafarians, which is the only recent example I can think of.

I'll have to look into that--I have no connection to those practices myself, but they may have some basic clues for me.

Quote
You might also find some parallels in pop-culture paganism, as regards celebrity culture. Most fans probably wouldn't call what they do 'worship', but ...

In all fairness, I am talking about working with/worshipping rock stars, so I can hardly claim to not be doing something related to celebrity culture.

For some context, I spent the past year aggressively building a Dionysian practice, only to get very clearly and distinctly told over the past few months that to continue pursuing this path I'd need to embrace the new god Mercury, who was not actually Hermes. Now that I've more or less come to terms with that, I find myself drawn to examine both the mechanics of how rock star apotheosis works (I have accumulated some observations on this that are fascinating to me, but not necessarily relevant to most anyone else at the moment)--and the question of which other rock gods I should be working with. (My current most exalted god-queen is probably a little too possessive, at the moment, to be okay with me worshipping other rock gods. Working with might just be okay.)

The latter question has inevitably led me to the fact that the classic rock icon most solidly intertwined with my life to date is a man who's still alive, and I really have no idea how to go about approaching that comfortably--hence this thread.
Utterly Pure, a virtual shrine in progress to Ariadne; Someday Comes Back, my general mysticism/pop culture blog.
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Eastling

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2017, 07:37:01 pm »
Eastling I'm pretty familiar with the worship of deified mortals, albeit in a very specific context. I also have a book examining the Imperial Cult in Asia Minor which, if you think it would be of help to you, I'll gladly post over to you.

That could be useful. I've poked a bit at the subject of Antinous in particular recently as something to explore in relation to celebrity culture today, as well.
Utterly Pure, a virtual shrine in progress to Ariadne; Someday Comes Back, my general mysticism/pop culture blog.
Everything dies, baby: that's a fact. But maybe everything that dies someday comes back.
--Bruce Springsteen
The words of Dionysos and Ariadne from the mouth of their beloved son: Rule with your heart; live with your conscience; love and be free.

Castus

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Re: The apotheosized and the apotheosizing: working with deified mortals
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 07:40:03 pm »
That could be useful. I've poked a bit at the subject of Antinous in particular recently as something to explore in relation to celebrity culture today, as well.

Well, I have a copy of P. Sufenas Lupus' "Devotio Antinoo" as well if you'd like me to send it with the other.
Remember him, O Lord, in Thy Kingdom, Thy faithful servant Tau Harmonius, bishop of the Gnosis, and a knower of the things that are, who like his predecessors of old gave his life and blood for the Truth that makes men free. Grant him we pray thee, a place of refreshment, a blessed tranquility, and the splendor of Thy Gnosis. We thank Thee, O eternal One, for the example of this faithful shepherd, who gave up his earthly life in Thy service, and we pray that inspired by his heroic virtue we may also bear witness to the Gnosis of Love, Liberty and Light, and may with him at length enter into Thine ineffable splendor and unending joy. Amen.

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