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Author Topic: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?  (Read 3377 times)

LeG

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Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?

Celtag

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 08:43:32 pm »
Quote from: LeG;31913
Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?

I considered myself to be a very hard polytheist, meaning I believe all Gods to be separate individuals with their own personalities and characteristics. So I believe that they are all different.
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DragonDaughter

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 08:48:52 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;31916
I considered myself to be a very hard polytheist, meaning I believe all Gods to be separate individuals with their own personalities and characteristics. So I believe that they are all different.

 
This. In my interactions, I've never had an underlying feeling of the same 'essence' from my deities. Each one is distinct and has their own agenda... Sometimes at complete odds with the agenda of the others. That's soooo much fun. :rolleye::
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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 08:17:04 am »
Quote from: Celtag;31916
I considered myself to be a very hard polytheist, meaning I believe all Gods to be separate individuals with their own personalities and characteristics. So I believe that they are all different.

This pretty much sums up my beliefs. While some Gods are known by different names in different places, in general each deity is a separate (and different) individual.
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SkySamuelle

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 04:24:02 am »
Quote from: RandallS;31987
This pretty much sums up my beliefs. While some Gods are known by different names in different places, in general each deity is a separate (and different) individual.

 
Seconding this opinion as well. I experienced gods and spirits as entities with a distinct 'feel' to each one, and/or entities with a distinct way to doing this.

I do believe that there's a sort of 'Universal Living Matter ' we are all part of, gods and men and spirits, but I think that at least most of gods and goddesses have separate identities.
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Nachtigall

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 05:47:49 am »
Quote from: LeG;31913
Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?

Christian gods?
If you mean the saints, then I'd agree that although originally they were not the same as Pagan deities - they were mortal humans, after all - in some cases that is indeed true, that Pagan gods are venerated under the names of saints ("dvoeverie", for sure, is a good example of it).

Senola Kari

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 10:26:35 am »
Quote from: Nachtigall;32172
Christian gods?
If you mean the saints, then I'd agree that although originally they were not the same as Pagan deities - they were mortal humans, after all - in some cases that is indeed true, that Pagan gods are venerated under the names of saints ("dvoeverie", for sure, is a good example of it).

 
St. Brigit of Kildare is a good example of saint/deity integration.

There is also the Gnostic goddess Sophia (wisdom) who is, in essence, the Holy Spirit.

In the end, though, I think these saints/deities have a distinct identity despite their oneness, but I'm more of an integrational polytheist that acknowledges their equal validity despite their religious and cultural divisions.
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ccardinot

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 12:06:45 pm »
Quote from: Senola Kari;32330
St. Brigit of Kildare is a good example of saint/deity integration.

There is also the Gnostic goddess Sophia (wisdom) who is, in essence, the Holy Spirit.

In the end, though, I think these saints/deities have a distinct identity despite their oneness, but I'm more of an integrational polytheist that acknowledges their equal validity despite their religious and cultural divisions.

 
I believe we all have to right to believe in whatever we choose. I personally believe that the beauty of Paganism is the unification of faith, science and art. Scientists believe that our beauty is that we are all made out of stars' dust. And the ancient deities were forces of nature we didn't understand, but we knew they were quite powerful.
In part, I agree with them. It's even poetic. Historically, it makes sense, as it explains why so many similar symbols are found all around the world, and why are there so many deities with similar characteristics and symbology. It's proof that the human being, in general, noticed and admired the very same things throughout it's History. And that proves our pagan view of worldwide brotherhood.

Cheers!

Rhyshadow

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 01:43:21 pm »
Quote from: LeG;31913
Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?


Realize that in several places in the Bible, God is referred to in the plural - not Gen 1:26, which many point to, because the verb usage is singular, it makes Elohim (a Hebrew word) singular - but in later passages - Gen 20:13 or 1 Sam 28:13 - the verb usage is plural, which makes Elohim a plural term - so even in the Old Testament, God is referred to as being many Gods.

As far as my personal opinion is - each God/dess is a separate individual.  While there might be cross-culture similarities and cross-function mixing, Epona and Rhiannon being an example of Goddesses associated with horses - they are two completely separate personalities

As I keep telling someone that I'm semi-mentoring - this is my viewpoint "Take it, Toss it, Change it - don't take my word as 'The Truth'" - it's just how I see it from 20+ years of being Pagan

Agarista

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 05:14:25 pm »
Quote from: LeG;31913
Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?

I made this question at university (i study classical philology and ancient history) and they answered me that: is not the same. The christian god is one, and the rest (saints) they arent god, they are saints, not divinities. The difference is that, that the pagan gods are divinities and the saints not. They are participants of the divinity but not the divinity, the divinity can be only God.
Of course... from my point of view, all religions in the worlds are the same only that with different names...

Rhyshadow

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2012, 06:15:59 pm »
Quote from: Agarista;45382
I made this question at university (i study classical philology and ancient history) and they answered me that: is not the same. The christian god is one, and the rest (saints) they arent god, they are saints, not divinities. The difference is that, that the pagan gods are divinities and the saints not. They are participants of the divinity but not the divinity, the divinity can be only God.
Of course... from my point of view, all religions in the worlds are the same only that with different names...


Thing I get a kick out of about this - you're only suppose to pray to God or Jesus - the same person if you really think about it

Mary, for Catholics, has been elevated to Deity status and they pray to her all the times

And how many actually "pray" to the various Saints - thereby unintentionally elevating them to Deity status as well

Just a bit of hypocrisy there I think


Personally - every one is an individual, each with His or Her unique traits, faults and foibles.  Even Jehovah and Jeshua are individuals, not two sides of the same coin.  And they are part of the intricate web of God/Goddess and Universe.

SunflowerP

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2012, 06:55:08 am »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;45390
Thing I get a kick out of about this - you're only suppose to pray to God or Jesus - the same person if you really think about it

Mary, for Catholics, has been elevated to Deity status and they pray to her all the times

And how many actually "pray" to the various Saints - thereby unintentionally elevating them to Deity status as well

Just a bit of hypocrisy there I think

Not really, no.

What one is supposed to offer to God alone is adoration - the word "prayer" isn't, in Catholic theology, limited to addressing God, so prayer to saints doesn't elevate them (intentionally or unintentionally) to deity status.  A clear distinction is made between the worship of God, and the veneration of saints.

That, of course, is official church doctrine.  Folk Catholicism, the practices that emerge organically in any community of Catholics, sometimes (particularly in times and places when the teaching of those doctrines to laypeople has been given short shrift) slides from veneration into idolatry, so to that extent you're correct - but prayer isn't where the distinction lies.

The failure to convey the teachings of any religion to the lay practitioners of that religion is certainly highly problematic (I don't think it'd be accurate to characterize it as being in all instances hypocritical, but it's probably an apt word in some instances).  But I'd situate the pivotal problem as a failure of catechesis, rather than a failure of doctrinal consistency.

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 06:57:12 am by SunflowerP »
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Rhyshadow

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 07:11:19 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;45433
Not really, no.

What one is supposed to offer to God alone is adoration - the word "prayer" isn't, in Catholic theology, limited to addressing God, so prayer to saints doesn't elevate them (intentionally or unintentionally) to deity status.  A clear distinction is made between the worship of God, and the veneration of saints.



Thanks for making that distinction clear - I was raise Lutheran, but attended Catholic Mass occasionally since the Boy Scout Troop I was part of was associated with the local Catholic Church.

As Lutheran, we were taught to ONLY pray to God or Jesus, as that is how we distinguish Them as Deity.  To hear Catholics - including friends - pray to Mary or one of the saints struck me as odd.  Never really got an explanation, and I guess I didn't look hard enough

Thanks again

Aynfean

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 01:03:33 pm »
Quote from: LeG;31913
Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different? Is "Christian" God creator are belong to christians or Pagan Gods are belong to pagans? Maybe they are the same essences with different names just thinked out by people?
What do you think?

 
Personally I think the Christian God is just one of many different deities. It's a pantheon same as the Celtic, Greek, Hindu, etc. But I'm a polytheist so, it makes sense to me.
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SunflowerP

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Re: Pagan Gods/Christian Gods - is there the same essences or different?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2012, 05:33:23 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;45436
Thanks for making that distinction clear - I was raise Lutheran, but attended Catholic Mass occasionally since the Boy Scout Troop I was part of was associated with the local Catholic Church.

As Lutheran, we were taught to ONLY pray to God or Jesus, as that is how we distinguish Them as Deity.  To hear Catholics - including friends - pray to Mary or one of the saints struck me as odd.  Never really got an explanation, and I guess I didn't look hard enough

Thanks again

 
Ah, that explains it.  I thought the definition of "prayer" you were using sounded like a particularly Protestant one (and one that may originally have had a political purpose) - it seems to me it wouldn't work all that well in most non-Protestant contexts.

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