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Author Topic: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir  (Read 3062 times)

MamaThistle

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Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« on: December 12, 2018, 12:00:18 pm »
Hey all!

I'm doing some research on Manannán mac Lir and I keep seeing different variations of the name, 'Mac' or 'mac'. Does anyone know which one is accurate? Or preferred?
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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 06:34:18 pm »
Hey all!

I'm doing some research on Manannán mac Lir and I keep seeing different variations of the name, 'Mac' or 'mac'. Does anyone know which one is accurate? Or preferred?

AFAIK the more accurate version is the lowercase mac.

As far as preference, [UPG incoming] I get the distinct impression that he doesn't really care about the capitalization of his name and is more concerned about things like litter in the ocean or if you're eating enough, you must be hungry, come sit at Uncle Sea's table and eat! THERE IS BACON FOR ALL! Also he has some dad jokes to tell you, be prepared to laugh, even if they're not super funny.
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MamaThistle

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 06:57:16 pm »
AFAIK the more accurate version is the lowercase mac.

As far as preference, [UPG incoming] I get the distinct impression that he doesn't really care about the capitalization of his name and is more concerned about things like litter in the ocean or if you're eating enough, you must be hungry, come sit at Uncle Sea's table and eat! THERE IS BACON FOR ALL! Also he has some dad jokes to tell you, be prepared to laugh, even if they're not super funny.

 ;D Awesome, thank you.
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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 08:20:43 pm »
As far as preference, [UPG incoming] I get the distinct impression that he doesn't really care about the capitalization of his name and is more concerned about things like litter in the ocean or if you're eating enough, you must be hungry, come sit at Uncle Sea's table and eat! THERE IS BACON FOR ALL! Also he has some dad jokes to tell you, be prepared to laugh, even if they're not super funny.

Not one of my deities personally,  but I  just had to chime in to state this personality description fits very well with the one devotee of his I'm acquainted with and makes perfect sense!

IceAngie

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 07:18:34 am »
AFAIK the more accurate version is the lowercase mac.

As far as preference, [UPG incoming] I get the distinct impression that he doesn't really care about the capitalization of his name and is more concerned about things like litter in the ocean or if you're eating enough, you must be hungry, come sit at Uncle Sea's table and eat! THERE IS BACON FOR ALL! Also he has some dad jokes to tell you, be prepared to laugh, even if they're not super funny.

I've been thinking about Him for a while now, and thought about starting to honor Him. Sadly, I don't have any sea I can get to (we are a port town, but there's no beach, it's just docks everywhere... and the stench of dead fish). Do you think He can be honored anyway, or does He relate to the sea so strongly that honoring Him in the city is useless? (I have a god like that -I call Him Neptune, but that's not His name- and the last time I did something for Him was years ago when I went to visit some friends in a beach town.)
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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 08:18:27 am »
I've been thinking about Him for a while now, and thought about starting to honor Him. Sadly, I don't have any sea I can get to (we are a port town, but there's no beach, it's just docks everywhere... and the stench of dead fish). Do you think He can be honored anyway, or does He relate to the sea so strongly that honoring Him in the city is useless? (I have a god like that -I call Him Neptune, but that's not His name- and the last time I did something for Him was years ago when I went to visit some friends in a beach town.)

To be honest I cannot remember the last time I spent any quality time near the seaside. I live "on the coast," but inland enough that getting to the oceanside is a pain.

Manannan is not just a god of the sea; as far as natural phenomena goes, he's also all about the rain and the mist. So...does it rain where you are? Then you can haz Manannan! Also, cranes are sacred to him, and they make their homes in wetlands, mostly, so that includes a lot of different types of land.

(Also pigs! Manannan is a god of endless bacon. No, seriously.)

The first time I ever experienced him was in the driving rain, on a farm, sobbing my eyes out. I found an oyster shell in the middle of the farm and took it in and cleaned it off. I felt a definite pull, and a warm, fatherly embrace. Later, I went down to a local beach that I THOUGHT was at the ocean, and had a nice long conversation with Manannan there, confirming that he was, indeed, the one who had reached out when I had been on the farm a few weeks prior, and some other things.

I noticed he seemed a bit...muted, in our convo, but I could still clearly understand him. Later I found out that I had actually been at a LAKE. A big lake that did eventually connect to the ocean, but a lake nonetheless.

Anyway, the teal deer of this is that you can contact him/connect with him anywhere, and honor him no matter where you are. The sea is important (and he might use it to steal your shoes if they're pretty), but it's not the only thing about him.

(And if you really want sea-related stuff to be part of it, there are ways of doing it that don't require getting to the ocean on a regular basis. You can make salt water for the shrine, you can decorate it with shells, you can donate to a group like Oceana that works to protect the world's oceans....)
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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 09:07:26 am »
The first time I ever experienced him was in the driving rain, on a farm, sobbing my eyes out. I found an oyster shell in the middle of the farm and took it in and cleaned it off. I felt a definite pull, and a warm, fatherly embrace. Later, I went down to a local beach that I THOUGHT was at the ocean, and had a nice long conversation with Manannan there, confirming that he was, indeed, the one who had reached out when I had been on the farm a few weeks prior, and some other things.

Thanks a lot for all the info! I feel a pull towards Him that's like "Come on, give me a big hug!", so I guess it makes sense.  ;D
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Micheál

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 06:33:30 pm »
Hey all!

I'm doing some research on Manannán mac Lir and I keep seeing different variations of the name, 'Mac' or 'mac'. Does anyone know which one is accurate? Or preferred?
Actually it's just Manannán  ;D , the namesake "mac Lir" is just 'son of the sea.' Since 'mac' isn't a proper name it doesn't need capitalised, however if you're looking at it as you would to be the start of a person's surname, then it could be capitalised.
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MamaThistle

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 10:22:02 pm »
Actually it's just Manannán  ;D , the namesake "mac Lir" is just 'son of the sea.' Since 'mac' isn't a proper name it doesn't need capitalised, however if you're looking at it as you would to be the start of a person's surname, then it could be capitalised.
Aha! I knew “mac Lir” meant ‘son of the see’, but I didn’t think of I’d like that. Thank you!
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Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2018, 01:54:16 pm »
Actually it's just Manannán  ;D , the namesake "mac Lir" is just 'son of the sea.' Since 'mac' isn't a proper name it doesn't need capitalised, however if you're looking at it as you would to be the start of a person's surname, then it could be capitalised.

The male members of my family still use the Welsh form,  ap. It causes no end of problems with the English computer world and normally ends up capitalised as an additional name!

MamaThistle

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2018, 02:06:40 pm »
Anyway, the teal deer of this is that you can contact him/connect with him anywhere, and honor him no matter where you are. The sea is important (and he might use it to steal your shoes if they're pretty), but it's not the only thing about him.

I had never heard of 'teal deer' before so I had to look it up!  ;D ;D

I don't live near the sea but I find it easy to connect to still. (Maybe because I'm a Pisces..  :P)
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Garnet

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 10:24:24 pm »
Do you think He can be honored anyway, or does He relate to the sea so strongly that honoring Him in the city is useless?

So, in the past year or so, I've started to get to know Manannan. It's one of those deity relationships that feels like it's been a long time coming. Like Morag, I think of Him in the rain, and especially in the fog or mist. Also, when traveling by airplane and the airplane goes through a cloud.

With His Otherworld associations, I think you can honor Him anywhere.

I've sensed His presence in Lake Michigan, which really does look (but not smell) like the ocean. I would second Morag on the donating ocean conservation causes, and I tend to get UPG that He cares about all things related to clean water.

Extreme UPG alert: I also associate Him with outer space. Maybe it's the way that to me, robotic space missions are technologically-enabled remote viewing - one of the "canonical" occult powers, and therefore a means of interacting with an Otherworld of sorts. Maybe it's that Adler Planetarium in Chicago is also a great place to get up close to Lake Michigan. I'm also thinking of the Carl Sagan quote from Cosmos: "The surface of the earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. Recently we've waded a little way out...and the waters seem inviting."

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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 01:09:55 am »
Extreme UPG alert: I also associate Him with outer space.

Oh hey, I do too! I call him the Deep One (or Frozen One sometimes) in that guise. Outer space has had ocean-y connotations for me for years, and it kinda just grew organically out of that, I guess.

Shared Personal Gnosis for the win? :)
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Re: Manannán Mac Lir or Manannán mac Lir
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 05:22:39 am »
Oh hey, I do too! I call him the Deep One (or Frozen One sometimes) in that guise. Outer space has had ocean-y connotations for me for years, and it kinda just grew organically out of that, I guess.

Shared Personal Gnosis for the win? :)

It’s an interesting idea. I’ve always regarded the ocean as ambiguous in mythology. I tend to associate the deep with the underworld, at least in a Slavic cultural context. It’s the likely abode of Veles. The ruler of the deep emerges out of the water in a number of guises in Slavic folklore ranging from the devil to Kojata or the Toad King. In some stories, proximity to the sea doesn’t seem to matter. He can reside in a lake or even a well, or rather these things seem like more of a doorway.

It also tends to appear at the beginning of creation stories, which implies a metaphor for the unshaped cosmos (before creation.) Perhaps because water was considered especially chaotic and formless, it may have represented the prima materia.

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