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Author Topic: Malevolent deities?  (Read 5604 times)

Kraken

Malevolent deities?
« on: September 03, 2015, 07:59:35 pm »
From a Wiccan or Druid point of view, are there any malevolent or ill meaning deities? I desire to keep everything all positive and, this may be a Christian point of view, but I don't want to accidentally stumble upon a god or goddess who wishes harm upon me (since, ya know, most Christians believe that contact with any god or goddess apart from Abrahamic God is considered "evil"). How does this work? How does the notion of "evil" work?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:01:29 pm by Kraken »
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NiDara

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 09:12:22 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179521
From a Wiccan or Druid point of view, are there any malevolent or ill meaning deities? I desire to keep everything all positive and, this may be a Christian point of view, but I don't want to accidentally stumble upon a god or goddess who wishes harm upon me (since, ya know, most Christians believe that contact with any god or goddess apart from Abrahamic God is considered "evil"). How does this work? How does the notion of "evil" work?

 
Even from a Wiccan or Druidic standpoint, the idea of malevolent deities is relative. No god or goddess is 100% "good". It's problematic to place any of them in boxes. Even with gods like Loki, Set, or the Morrigan, for example, they don't really fit into the "evil" category. You have to treat any deity with respect and do your research.

Generally, deities are associated with forces of nature, experiences, or cultural aspects, which don't fit into "good" or "evil". They're all varying degrees of "light" and "dark", to use more neutral terms than "good" or "evil".

Mountain Cat

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 09:36:08 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179521
From a Wiccan or Druid point of view, are there any malevolent or ill meaning deities? I desire to keep everything all positive and, this may be a Christian point of view, but I don't want to accidentally stumble upon a god or goddess who wishes harm upon me (since, ya know, most Christians believe that contact with any god or goddess apart from Abrahamic God is considered "evil"). How does this work? How does the notion of "evil" work?

 

You ask interesting questions that I think others will have really good answers to. :)

The concept of Evil isn't something that is taught in Druidry. Some people do bad things. Some things are bad when seen in one context, but are not seen as bad in another. Bad things happen. To good people and bad people. There is no sin and keeping things "positive" is relative and personal.

As for coming across malevolent or ill meaning deities? Well, do your research on a deity before attempting to welcome them into your life. Don't do a ritual that deals with a deity without understanding who they are. I imagine some people have had deities come into their lives that mean ill, but the only times I've ever heard of that is when someone was careless in a ritual and/or when they were unfamiliar with that deity or being. Learn about and understand protection before doing ritual.

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 09:59:38 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179521
From a Wiccan or Druid point of view, are there any malevolent or ill meaning deities? I desire to keep everything all positive and, this may be a Christian point of view, but I don't want to accidentally stumble upon a god or goddess who wishes harm upon me (since, ya know, most Christians believe that contact with any god or goddess apart from Abrahamic God is considered "evil"). How does this work? How does the notion of "evil" work?

 
The thing about (most) pagan gods is that they aren't 100% benevolent. If they were giving/loving on their own all the time, there wouldn't be a point in cajoling/bargaining/praying/offering. It'd just be a given.

This is Nature's world and we just live in it.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Kraken

Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 10:48:37 pm »
Quote from: Mountain Cat;179529
You ask interesting questions that I think others will have really good answers to. :)


Thank you! I'm trying to learn as much as I can!

Quote
As for coming across malevolent or ill meaning deities? Well, do your research on a deity before attempting to welcome them into your life. Don't do a ritual that deals with a deity without understanding who they are. I imagine some people have had deities come into their lives that mean ill, but the only times I've ever heard of that is when someone was careless in a ritual and/or when they were unfamiliar with that deity or being. Learn about and understand protection before doing ritual.


That sounds scary. I wouldn't want to do that. This is why I am afraid to practice any ritual ATM because I don't know if I would let any deity in ACCIDENTALLY or somehow piss one of them off. Almost like I'm afraid of "curses" or "illnesses" or "possessions" by doing something out of ignorance.
"you have risen from the ashes, with outspread arms, face to the sun, eyes closed, full of radiance..."

Kraken

Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 10:56:35 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;179532
The thing about (most) pagan gods is that they aren't 100% benevolent. If they were giving/loving on their own all the time, there wouldn't be a point in cajoling/bargaining/praying/offering. It'd just be a given.

This is Nature's world and we just live in it.


I suppose so. But I feel under stress to perform to some deity I haven't met or am thinking about bringing into my life. For example, I learned about a Norse goddess named Angrboda, the Bringer of Sorrow. She wigged me out a little. How do I know if I have pissed her off? How do I know if I have brought her into my life? Does even mentioning her name do anything?

And from what I have listened to and read, "Mother Goddess" seems to be "loving" and "giving" such as in this chant/song I found:

The Mother shares Her love in the falling rain
The Mother shares Her love in the corn and grain
The Mother shares Her love in the warm hearth fire
The Mother shares Her love in the breeze that flies
Great Mother may we share with you our gift of song
We raise our voices joyfully, we raise them strong
Oh, Mother we are grateful for all you do
And we have come together now in praise of you

And same with deity, Brigid...I believe she is a compassionate type. Same with Quan Yin. How do I perform ritual with those types of deities? I would tend to want to bring into my life a deity who is patient and understanding because I don't often always know what I want except acceptance etc. What happens if I become angry with a deity? I just want to know nothing bad will happen to me...
"you have risen from the ashes, with outspread arms, face to the sun, eyes closed, full of radiance..."

Darkhawk

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 11:15:48 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179537
I suppose so. But I feel under stress to perform to some deity I haven't met or am thinking about bringing into my life. For example, I learned about a Norse goddess named Angrboda, the Bringer of Sorrow. She wigged me out a little. How do I know if I have pissed her off? How do I know if I have brought her into my life? Does even mentioning her name do anything?


The Powers basically are doing a job.  And those jobs are, in many cases, significantly different from the human-scale sense of function.  When people get hurt, it's essentially never because a god got "pissed off".

"Getting frostbite when out in the weather in the winter with inadequate protection" does not happen because one has "pissed off" a frost god; it happens because that's what the winter does.  The gods don't intervene to cause it; they also don't intervene to prevent it; the job is 'produce cold', and the frost gods will do that job.  Blaming the gods for frozen toes is a lot less productive than getting better socks.

They're not sitting around waiting for people to say their name three times like Bloody Mary; all of them, all of them, they're working all the time.  That job doesn't generally include 'hang out waiting for random humans to read a book about me'.

Quote
What happens if I become angry with a deity?


Dunno about you, but I tend to swear at them, myself.  The ones I follow and sometimes the ones I don't, both, though the ones I don't are less likely to royally piss me off.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Mountain Cat

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 11:19:11 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179535
Thank you! I'm trying to learn as much as I can!



That sounds scary. I wouldn't want to do that. This is why I am afraid to practice any ritual ATM because I don't know if I would let any deity in ACCIDENTALLY or somehow piss one of them off. Almost like I'm afraid of "curses" or "illnesses" or "possessions" by doing something out of ignorance.

 

Well, that's good. At least you know to be cautious and respectful. I'm no authority on ritual or deities, but I do have a small amount of experience in knowing what it feels like to have deities  show up when you don't expect them. It can be startling to say the least. As for curses or possessions, I don't know much about them, particularly in a Wiccan perspective, so someone else can answer that for you.

I would suggest doing lots of reading before you attempt a ritual of any sort. It's probably best to have an idea of how you want to focus yourself before you begin trying rituals. Though that isn't necessary. It will just give you more confidence.

There are lots of threads around here about which books are better for beginners. Books are great. Read lots! :)

NiDara

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 11:22:13 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179537
I suppose so. But I feel under stress to perform to some deity I haven't met or am thinking about bringing into my life. For example, I learned about a Norse goddess named Angrboda, the Bringer of Sorrow. She wigged me out a little. How do I know if I have pissed her off? How do I know if I have brought her into my life? Does even mentioning her name do anything?

And from what I have listened to and read, "Mother Goddess" seems to be "loving" and "giving" such as in this chant/song I found:

The Mother shares Her love in the falling rain
The Mother shares Her love in the corn and grain
The Mother shares Her love in the warm hearth fire
The Mother shares Her love in the breeze that flies
Great Mother may we share with you our gift of song
We raise our voices joyfully, we raise them strong
Oh, Mother we are grateful for all you do
And we have come together now in praise of you

And same with deity, Brigid...I believe she is a compassionate type. Same with Quan Yin. How do I perform ritual with those types of deities? I would tend to want to bring into my life a deity who is patient and understanding because I don't often always know what I want except acceptance etc. What happens if I become angry with a deity? I just want to know nothing bad will happen to me...

 
Having any sort of relationship with any deity is still a relationship. There will be ups and downs. If you're interested in either Brighid (who definitely has a reputation of being compassionate) or Quan Yin (I've heard the same about her too), give an offering that they would like and say hello along your intentions.  Be respectful most of all.

Divination is a traditional means of communication, as is meditation. If it seems like a deity is upset with you, apologize and work to correct the wrongdoing. Humans make mistakes, but  deities aren't perfect, either. Take baby steps and get to know the deity you would like to have in your life. Research him or her, be respectful, get to know their interests and causes, and communicate with that deity.

Redfaery

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 11:27:09 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179537
I suppose so. But I feel under stress to perform to some deity I haven't met or am thinking about bringing into my life. For example, I learned about a Norse goddess named Angrboda, the Bringer of Sorrow. She wigged me out a little. How do I know if I have pissed her off? How do I know if I have brought her into my life? Does even mentioning her name do anything?

 
I really doubt you'd have pissed her off or anything, but by all means, if you don't like her, I'd avoid her! You could do divination to find out if you've brought her into your life, or if you've angered her (or....maybe you PLEASED her!). As to whether mentioning a god's name does anything, I honestly think it depends.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Kraken

Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 11:37:45 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;179545
I really doubt you'd have pissed her off or anything, but by all means, if you don't like her, I'd avoid her! You could do divination to find out if you've brought her into your life, or if you've angered her (or....maybe you PLEASED her!). As to whether mentioning a god's name does anything, I honestly think it depends.

 
But I've only read about Angrboda...this all makes me very nervous. I haven't done anything, yet, I am afraid I will be stepping on someone's toes...

What if I attempt to make contact with Mother Goddess and then don't contact for a while...does that warrant as something she could get pissed off for? What about in the sense that she's the maternal part to a Supreme Being (Father God/Mother Goddess). And Mother Earth/Goddess...well things happen in nature all the time. That's no one's fault...but can come interpret some of the natural disasters as anger lashing out?

How do I know if I've pissed someone off? How do I make amends? Ahh this is scary...
"you have risen from the ashes, with outspread arms, face to the sun, eyes closed, full of radiance..."

Darkhawk

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 11:40:53 pm »
Quote from: Kraken;179547
But I've only read about Angrboda...this all makes me very nervous. I haven't done anything, yet, I am afraid I will be stepping on someone's toes...


Have you interfered with a cosmic job?  Prevented the frost from happening?  Stopped the leaves from turning?  Turned aside a thunderstorm with the power of your mind?  Personally disrupted an ecosystem?  Caused the dissolution of the fabric of society?  That sort of thing?

No?

You've almost certainly not pissed off any gods then.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Kraken

Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 11:42:32 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;179541
The Powers basically are doing a job.  And those jobs are, in many cases, significantly different from the human-scale sense of function.  When people get hurt, it's essentially never because a god got "pissed off".

"Getting frostbite when out in the weather in the winter with inadequate protection" does not happen because one has "pissed off" a frost god; it happens because that's what the winter does.  The gods don't intervene to cause it; they also don't intervene to prevent it; the job is 'produce cold', and the frost gods will do that job.  Blaming the gods for frozen toes is a lot less productive than getting better socks.

Great analogy...makes sense. Don't think I would ever blame a god for frostbite when it was my duty to make sure I was protected against the cold...while the winter and frost does what it does because that's its way...got it...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:43:37 pm by Kraken »
"you have risen from the ashes, with outspread arms, face to the sun, eyes closed, full of radiance..."

Kraken

Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 11:44:01 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;179548
Have you interfered with a cosmic job?  Prevented the frost from happening?  Stopped the leaves from turning?  Turned aside a thunderstorm with the power of your mind?  Personally disrupted an ecosystem?  Caused the dissolution of the fabric of society?  That sort of thing?

No?

You've almost certainly not pissed off any gods then.


Understood!! :)
"you have risen from the ashes, with outspread arms, face to the sun, eyes closed, full of radiance..."

Mountain Cat

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Re: Malevolent deities?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 12:14:59 am »
Quote from: Kraken;179551
Understood!! :)

 
My understanding is that most gods don't work the way that the Abrahamic god is said to work. They don't tend to punish you for thinking the wrong thing or being a certain way or really even contacting them. Some people are very open to deity contact and saying a deity's name might make them pay attention. Most people aren't like that. And most deities won't pay much attention to you until you contact them, specifically. Sometimes it takes multiple contacts.

It's not something to really worry about. Just knowing that you are cautious and respectful should make a big difference for you.

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