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Author Topic: Jealous Gods  (Read 4657 times)

sea-salt

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Jealous Gods
« on: December 06, 2014, 08:34:14 pm »
Here's a topic I haven't seen discussed before; do the Gods/Godesses you work with ever become jealous of another deity you're trying to work with?

I'm asking because I just experienced this myself. A few days ago I posted a thread asking for help with finding a deity I could work with who would give me guidance because I got (what i thought were) clear messages from Loki, the only God I work with right now, that I should seek advice elsewhere. Later I realized that I misunderstood what he was telling me - not just "ask someone else" but "if you want the easy answers you're looking for, ask someone else because I won't give them to you." (Which is completely accurate - deep down, I was just looking for easy answers.)

So I squared that with him, but I did want to try working with another deity - Sekhmet - because I've felt drawn to her for a long time, and I wanted to invoke her help in dealing with my chronic migraines because of her connection to healing and doctors. (And Gods know my doctors could use all the help they can get, dealing with a tricky patient like me.) I tried doing a tarot reading this evening to get to know her better, but I sensed that Loki was messing with the reading. I asked him if he could please let me work with Sekhmet and stop messing with the cards, and he said "no."

I didn't get a positive, mischievous vibe from this, so I started asking him more questions to figure out what was going on. I got the sense that he didn't like me talking to another deity, and he was a bit mad at me for doing so without asking him first. When I specifically asked, "how does it make you feel when I try to work with another deity?" I pulled the Knight of Cups reversed - which I read as "moody and jealous."

So Loki is jealous and doesn't want me to work with any other deities right now. (He didn't give me a straight answer when I asked "do you want me to only work with you FOR EVER?" so I'm not sure if this is temporary or not.) The reason he's jealous seems to be because he wants to be my patron - but I don't quite feel ready for that level of commitment yet, especially after I apparently hurt his feelings by trying to connect with another deity. (And feel free to tell me if I'm being foolish to turn down an offer like this - I've never had this kind of connection to a deity before and I'm basically sitting here like the "I have no idea what I'm doing" dog.)

Bypassing all that, have any of you experienced jealousy among the deities you work with?

Redfaery

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 01:45:41 am »
Quote from: sea-salt;166902
Here's a topic I haven't seen discussed before; do the Gods/Godesses you work with ever become jealous of another deity you're trying to work with?

 
This happened to me in Japan, when I tried to work with a deified historical figure, Taira no Masakado Ason. We....had problems from the beginning. Mainly because I knew a little too much about who he'd been in life, and refused to give him the unconditional reverence I gave to other kamisama. He was very jealous of Benzaiten-sama, but he didn't have a chance against her, and he knew it. So he lashed out at me instead. It was kind of a scary experience - the first time I'd ever been under any type of psychic attack. But Benzaiten-sama basically kicked his ass. You don't get to mess with me like that when she's around!
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Faemon

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2014, 06:15:38 am »
Quote from: sea-salt;166902
Here's a topic I haven't seen discussed before; do the Gods/Godesses you work with ever become jealous of another deity you're trying to work with?


Right now, I'm working with a no-name, no-mythology deity that I think has developed a bad case of epithets. He's jealous of himself. I made a thread about it where I described it:

Quote from: Faemon;166901
With Epithets, I wondered if it was Loki coming by again (because Epithets was tricksy, I figured that he would be that sort of archetype--and since meeting with and working with Loki I've taken care to check that not every deity/familiar that I come across is really Loki.) I actually got them in the same room and they have I guess a grudging respect for each other but are definitely not to be mistaken for one another.

When it came to Epiphet One and Epithet Two, it's Epithet shifting from one form/face to another. The signature, inasmuch as I could sense, was the same. Later, they were separate but not interacting with one another, and one said that it was because they were the same on different levels of consideration whereas the other (which carried the original face and its pop culture imagery) basically said that I was shifting too much attention away from him to somebody he didn't like. So, I asked the latter to shed the pop culture imagery so that I can get a better sense of his true form and face. Instead of revealing, they combined.


Cue my stifled shout of aggravation.

Quote from: sea-salt;166902
"if you want the easy answers you're looking for, ask someone else because I won't give them to you."


It's quite bad form for ol' flame hair to interfere with your doing what he told you to. Could it have been, though, closer to...

Quote
if you want the easy answers you're looking for...I won't give them to you


Because he really meant, "Do it the hard way or zilch"?
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sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 10:16:21 am »
Quote from: Redfaery;166911
This happened to me in Japan, when I tried to work with a deified historical figure, Taira no Masakado Ason. We....had problems from the beginning. Mainly because I knew a little too much about who he'd been in life, and refused to give him the unconditional reverence I gave to other kamisama. He was very jealous of Benzaiten-sama, but he didn't have a chance against her, and he knew it. So he lashed out at me instead. It was kind of a scary experience - the first time I'd ever been under any type of psychic attack. But Benzaiten-sama basically kicked his ass. You don't get to mess with me like that when she's around!

 
That does sound like a scary experience. That's great that you had Benzaiten-sama to protect you, though!

sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 10:27:58 am »
Quote from: Faemon;166912
Right now, I'm working with a no-name, no-mythology deity that I think has developed a bad case of epithets. He's jealous of himself. I made a thread about it where I described it:

...

Cue my stifled shout of aggravation.

...

It's quite bad form for ol' flame hair to interfere with your doing what he told you to. Could it have been, though, closer to...

...

Because he really meant, "Do it the hard way or zilch"?

 
Yeesh, that does sound frustrating. :/

And yes, I think that's exactly what Loki meant. I think he was either being cheeky or testing me when he told me to "ask someone else." I'm getting the sense that he thinks I'm trying to avoid dealing with the things he wants me to deal with by working with another deity - which is probably somewhat accurate, since his criticisms of me have been both harsh and completely spot-on. That, and perhaps he feels like I'm rejecting him in some way by seeking help elsewhere. Anyway, I promised to only work with him for a while, so we'll see how things go.

Redfaery

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 10:40:26 am »
Quote from: sea-salt;166916
That does sound like a scary experience. That's great that you had Benzaiten-sama to protect you, though!
Yeah....she's awesome. BTW, she's also Sarasvati, so if you see other posts where I talk about a goddess with that name, don't be confused.
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Emma Eldritch

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 02:18:26 pm »
Quote from: sea-salt;166902
Here's a topic I haven't seen discussed before; do the Gods/Godesses you work with ever become jealous of another deity you're trying to work with?

I'm asking because I just experienced this myself. A few days ago I posted a thread asking for help with finding a deity I could work with who would give me guidance because I got (what i thought were) clear messages from Loki, the only God I work with right now, that I should seek advice elsewhere. Later I realized that I misunderstood what he was telling me - not just "ask someone else" but "if you want the easy answers you're looking for, ask someone else because I won't give them to you." (Which is completely accurate - deep down, I was just looking for easy answers.)

So I squared that with him, but I did want to try working with another deity - Sekhmet - because I've felt drawn to her for a long time, and I wanted to invoke her help in dealing with my chronic migraines because of her connection to healing and doctors. (And Gods know my doctors could use all the help they can get, dealing with a tricky patient like me.) I tried doing a tarot reading this evening to get to know her better, but I sensed that Loki was messing with the reading. I asked him if he could please let me work with Sekhmet and stop messing with the cards, and he said "no."

I didn't get a positive, mischievous vibe from this, so I started asking him more questions to figure out what was going on. I got the sense that he didn't like me talking to another deity, and he was a bit mad at me for doing so without asking him first. When I specifically asked, "how does it make you feel when I try to work with another deity?" I pulled the Knight of Cups reversed - which I read as "moody and jealous."

So Loki is jealous and doesn't want me to work with any other deities right now. (He didn't give me a straight answer when I asked "do you want me to only work with you FOR EVER?" so I'm not sure if this is temporary or not.) The reason he's jealous seems to be because he wants to be my patron - but I don't quite feel ready for that level of commitment yet, especially after I apparently hurt his feelings by trying to connect with another deity. (And feel free to tell me if I'm being foolish to turn down an offer like this - I've never had this kind of connection to a deity before and I'm basically sitting here like the "I have no idea what I'm doing" dog.)

Bypassing all that, have any of you experienced jealousy among the deities you work with?

 
I'm not sure I'd class it as jealousy, but I've definitely been told "no, not that one" or "not them right now."

I've been working with the Morrigan pretty much ever since I discovered Paganism, and in that time she's had precious little issue with other gods. (In my twenties I worked a lot with some of the Egyptian pantheon and there was never a conflict there.) This year I started getting some signs from a different deity, and after confirming via a reading from my sister that I wasn't imagining it, I decided to ask if it would be okay to do work with this fellow.

The answer I got surprised me. It was basically, "sure, but not in October. That whole month is for me." Obviously I listened.

baduhmtisss

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 03:52:39 pm »
Quote from: sea-salt;166902
(He didn't give me a straight answer when I asked "do you want me to only work with you FOR EVER?" so I'm not sure if this is temporary or not.) The reason he's jealous seems to be because he wants to be my patron - but I don't quite feel ready for that level of commitment yet, especially after I apparently hurt his feelings by trying to connect with another deity. (And feel free to tell me if I'm being foolish to turn down an offer like this - I've never had this kind of connection to a deity before and I'm basically sitting here like the "I have no idea what I'm doing" dog.)


I feel it's pertinent to point out that you do not have to accept the relationship Loki seems to be wanting between you two. It's okay to tell a deity "No, I'm not okay with this right now. Maybe another time, or maybe never." Because that defines and sets your personal boundaries.
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sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 06:45:00 pm »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;166925
I'm not sure I'd class it as jealousy, but I've definitely been told "no, not that one" or "not them right now."

I've been working with the Morrigan pretty much ever since I discovered Paganism, and in that time she's had precious little issue with other gods. (In my twenties I worked a lot with some of the Egyptian pantheon and there was never a conflict there.) This year I started getting some signs from a different deity, and after confirming via a reading from my sister that I wasn't imagining it, I decided to ask if it would be okay to do work with this fellow.

The answer I got surprised me. It was basically, "sure, but not in October. That whole month is for me." Obviously I listened.

 
Interesting! I asked Loki if he objected just to Sekhmet or if he would object to any other deities, and he indicated that he didn't want me working with anyone else at all right now - or at the very least, I should check in with him first before I do.

It sounds like you had no problem going with the Morrigan's wishes in that case. Is that because you consider her a patron/matron and always take her into consideration first, or because of her particular nature (I've never worked with her myself, but she sounds like a goddess whose wishes shouldn't be ignored), or for another reason?

sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 07:00:47 pm »
Quote from: Raine;166937
I feel it's pertinent to point out that you do not have to accept the relationship Loki seems to be wanting between you two. It's okay to tell a deity "No, I'm not okay with this right now. Maybe another time, or maybe never." Because that defines and sets your personal boundaries.

 
I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I asked for some time to think about it before I made any decisions, and Loki seemed perfectly happy to wait. I would love to have a patron (and wouldn't we all) and my work with Loki has been very positive overall so far, but the suddenness of his offer definitely took me by surprise after upsetting him.

I actually did some meditation and tarot work on this today to see where I really stand on the issue, and get an idea of why Loki is interested in me and what he would expect from me as my patron. I came to the conclusion that he was already acting like my patron whether I wanted to reciprocate or not, and that he would expect me to make the same changes in my life regardless of whether I considered him my patron.

Finally, I basically asked "what's the worst that could happen if I accepted you as my patron?" and he said, "change - which scares the shit out of you." Like he needs to remind me of that again. Then he told me I was taking this patron thing much too seriously - another thing he'd like me to work on - so I decided to make a very casual declaration that basically stated "I appreciate and accept your offer to be my patron, and since you're going to act like you are anyway, I figure we might as well give it a go and see what happens."

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 07:16:03 pm »
Quote from: sea-salt;166948
Finally, I basically asked "what's the worst that could happen if I accepted you as my patron?" and he said, "change - which scares the shit out of you." Like he needs to remind me of that again. Then he told me I was taking this patron thing much too seriously - another thing he'd like me to work on - so I decided to make a very casual declaration that basically stated "I appreciate and accept your offer to be my patron, and since you're going to act like you are anyway, I figure we might as well give it a go and see what happens."

 
Of course he is going to tell you that you're taking this too seriously.  He is Loki after all and is very skilled at crafting untruths and half-truths without lying outright.  You're going to be in for an interesting ride if you've consented to go along with this without laying down some ground rules.
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sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 07:54:33 pm »
Quote from: Aisling;166949
Of course he is going to tell you that you're taking this too seriously.  He is Loki after all and is very skilled at crafting untruths and half-truths without lying outright.  You're going to be in for an interesting ride if you've consented to go along with this without laying down some ground rules.

 
Ground rules such as...?

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 08:17:23 pm »
Quote from: sea-salt;166953
Ground rules such as...?


The same ground rules you'd set in any relationship... your expectations of what the relationship will be like, your partner's (deity's) expectations of what the relationship will be like, what things you are and are not willing to do as part of this relationship, and what things will automatically null and void the relationship.  While these things can change as the relationship progresses, it's a good idea to establish some initial guidelines, particularly when dealing with a known trickster.
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But once you learn your answers, you can never unlearn them."
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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 08:28:36 pm »
Quote from: sea-salt;166946
Interesting! I asked Loki if he objected just to Sekhmet or if he would object to any other deities, and he indicated that he didn't want me working with anyone else at all right now - or at the very least, I should check in with him first before I do.

It sounds like you had no problem going with the Morrigan's wishes in that case. Is that because you consider her a patron/matron and always take her into consideration first, or because of her particular nature (I've never worked with her myself, but she sounds like a goddess whose wishes shouldn't be ignored), or for another reason?

 
I would consider her my matron goddess, yeah. She was there when I first started out over fifteen years ago, and she's still there today. She's the one I know that I can always turn to, even if I've been a shitty daughter so to speak. For me, there's a lot of history to consider in terms of politeness and permissions and it will determine how much weight I put on the answers I get.

I think some people, when they're first starting out or are in the honeymoon phase of deity interaction, might be prone to promising too much. Gods typically take debts very seriously, and I think that Aisling has a really, really good point about just going along with what they want. Ultimately only you can decide who is good for you in your life, and that includes non-human forces.

sea-salt

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Re: Jealous Gods
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 08:32:33 pm »
Quote from: Aisling;166959
The same ground rules you'd set in any relationship... your expectations of what the relationship will be like, your partner's (deity's) expectations of what the relationship will be like, what things you are and are not willing to do as part of this relationship, and what things will automatically null and void the relationship.  While these things can change as the relationship progresses, it's a good idea to establish some initial guidelines, particularly when dealing with a known trickster.

 
Actually, we've already discussed a lot of those things over the past couple weeks - long before anything about Loki being my patron came up - especially when it comes to clarifying what each of us wants/expects out of this relationship. I just haven't mentioned those conversations here.

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