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Author Topic: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?  (Read 5020 times)

monsnoleedra

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2012, 10:21:35 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;54772
I don't see that as a danger so much as analogous to the importance of compost when considering the realm of gardening. Less dramatic, but vital for growth.


I don't disagree that that could be a facet to consider.  The point I was getting at though is that a lightning strike can burn a forest to the ground clearing the way for new growth, new life and potentially even a complete change to the eco system.  Yet Hekate / Hecate could also use a careless man / woman to leave a fire burning and cause the same thing to occur.

As such one might claim to be doing things for a greener earth when Hekate / Hecate holds no such assumption for she see's beyond the limitations of man and his / her memory.  A plague today may be her solution or a war could equally be her solution and take either option above the concept of being an eco-warrior.

Especially so when you consider her lore holds no such connection to being a green mother or Gaia type personality.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2012, 10:53:14 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;54772
I don't see that as a danger so much as analogous to the importance of compost when considering the realm of gardening. Less dramatic, but vital for growth.


Sort of an aside note but hinges off this concept.  I once encountered Hecate / Hekate in what felt highly unusual to me at the time.  Been sometimes since then so I do not recall the exactness of the situation but it was a combined sense of Hecate / Hekate but mixed with a strong influence of Demeter's energy.  Well what I equated to Demeter anyway given that I do not honor her nor make ritual / ceremonies to or for her.

The best way I could describe it is that Hekate / Hecate's aura was bathed in the growing energy of Demeter and her connection to the awakening earth.  In a sense it always reminded me of the story of Hekate / Hecate bathing Persphone in her light but being embraced by the warmth and re-birth as Demeter stepped in to embrace her daughter.

As I stated I've only ever encountered it once and still am not sure of how it all interplayed.  But there was a strong sense of re-birth and growth that felt highly unusual from how I normally see Hekate / Hecate.

I can't help but wonder if your not being in something similar to that from the way you describe Hekate / Hecate?  It's so unusual to me that I consider it a fluke more than an actual aspect or persona of Hekate / Hecate.

Aubrey_Rose

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2012, 09:39:09 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;54821
I do ritual but not usually specifically for Hekate. Sometimes I'll talk to her then, but have had no answers. I do think about her daily though. When making purposive choices regarding the cycles of others or myself, I contemplate her roles. When doing any magic it feels like I'm being guided and I have begun to associate that feeling with her. When I am at the beach, in the woods or at the gardens I often feel like there is some kind of contact. When I guide another it feels like that's the kind of honoring I am supposed to be doing. Less so in ritual. Ritual takes me into myself, but doing takes me to her types of places physically and mentally. I am not sure if I am explaining that well. Sorry.

She has become more of a useful daily concept for me. It's less dramatic than a set apart ritual, but more embedded and significant. I do have a candle for her, but I light that for a bit almost daily these days.

Not super relevant but fun, I read a legend about her on website that I cannot recall except that it seemed very fluffy, but what do I know? I am made of fluff sometimes. Anyway, the legend is that she will appear to those who seek her on the Ebony Moons or Black Moons. That is when there are two new moons in a cycle like Blue Moons are two fulls in one (the second moon is the special one). So I got curious to find out when these happen. The next one I think is Jan. 30th, 2014.

 

I wouldn't typically do a ritual just for a specific Goddess/God. However, I want to get to know her a little more. Research only goes so far. I feel like she reached out to me, and now its my turn to show I am serious. And pay my due respect.
Maybe it will lead nowhere(thought I don't believe that), but there is no harm in trying.
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2012, 10:15:56 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;54828

As I stated I've only ever encountered it once and still am not sure of how it all interplayed.  But there was a strong sense of re-birth and growth that felt highly unusual from how I normally see Hekate / Hecate.

I can't help but wonder if your not being in something similar to that from the way you describe Hekate / Hecate?  It's so unusual to me that I consider it a fluke more than an actual aspect or persona of Hekate / Hecate.


You have read that she was the nurse to the baby Zeus while he was secreted away, no? And though she takes her time in alerting Demeter as to Persephone's cries, she does go more than the extra mile for the little P. You note she teaches Medea and as a teacher has a direct hand in learning. Learning is growth. She guides souls through the dark and is unafraid to get her hands dirty. When needed to fight, she did. She is a witch whose offerings made food for the poor. She took a pity on a supposed deviant and made of her a polecat companion. She is the goddess of the in betweens. That is where growth happens. Like with a child unseen for weeks, one is amazed at the size, but that change is not recognized always in the everyday. And even when we stop growing and start dying, we are in between always. She is at the crossroads as we all are when we decide anything. And we grow from those choices. Even the Chaldean Hekate ensouls the world.

That's a nurturer in my book.

I have been reticent to read UPGs except those here but am near set to buy a book of them. My hesitation, I think, stems from the potential discomfort I may feel at not recognizing in her what others seem to. Not that it would or wouldn't change my impressions, but I know myself and I would at first react pissy before chilling out about it and realizing there is no true ownership or validation of experience save for what oneself can have.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2012, 10:32:22 pm »
Quote from: Aubrey_Rose;55004
I wouldn't typically do a ritual just for a specific Goddess/God. However, I want to get to know her a little more. Research only goes so far. I feel like she reached out to me, and now its my turn to show I am serious. And pay my due respect.
Maybe it will lead nowhere(thought I don't believe that), but there is no harm in trying.

 

I agree. No harm in reaching out. And I have done things like get crossroads dirt and leave things there. I live at a Y intersection and have left a shiny for her there. I found three little keys recently. I buried one. I tossed one up as high as I could and it landed on my roof. And I have the third saved on my little altar sandstone for when I go to the beach next. I will toss it into the sea. And there are other things in the works that I am planning with her in mind.

So I get your desire and drive. I think it comes from a lovely place and were I a goddess, I would enjoy and appreciate the efforts made. You've made me think that tomorrow it would be nice to reach out myself in a more formal ritual. Ritual always brings me peace and I could use some of that right now.:)

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 12:04:33 am »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;55010
You have read that she was the nurse to the baby Zeus while he was secreted away, no?


But that is a later addition to her lore.  Perhaps even used to justify her inclusion into the Olympian pantheon and status as a titaness.  She is not associated to Zeus at Lagina in her Anatolian history and lore.

There is still a lot of speculation that as a cult her status and presence was such that she had to be brough into the Olympian pantheon as a near equal.  The only way to do that is give her a connection to Zeus and have him bestow upon her the rights and abilities she held before that.  In part contributing to the confusion as to what her lineage actually is and how she figures into things.

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And though she takes her time in alerting Demeter as to Persephone's cries, she does go more than the extra mile for the little P.


Again a later addition to the stories.  In the earlier accounts Hekate / Hecate doesn't even appear to take a part.  Yet when she is added her role is rather barren.  For instance Hermes is the one dispatched by Zeus demanding Persphone's release.  When she comes to the surface and Demeter embraces her Hekate / Hecate in some stories leads her out, in other's stands behind her so her torch lights the way but then she is a follower not a leader.  Even in reference to Hekate / Hecate hearing Persphone's cries it's not sure if it is original to the story or a later addition.  So it leaves again an opening as to the why of it.

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You note she teaches Medea and as a teacher has a direct hand in learning. Learning is growth.


She teaches Medea but teaching does not ensure growth.  Teaching provides the fertile soil for growth to take place but it still relies upon the student to take an action.  Other wise its no different than a teacher today standing before a classroom and the students ignoring it at thier own expense.  Yet it does not indicate growth occured for the students.  Were Medea to actually have achieved growth and undertanding she would not have needed revenge and the death of her children.

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She guides souls through the dark and is unafraid to get her hands dirty.


Again which aspect?  She does not guide souls through the dark she drives them with the aid of her hounds.  She gathers those that are damned or forsaken depending upon how one reads it from the wilderness and liminal placs between civilization and non-civilization.  Perhaps possessing the ability to bring a soul out of hades as she is free to come and go but I've never even seen that facet really addressed in any of her lore.  Hermes is about the only one you can say guides souls as he brings them to the river.

It also falls into the notion of liminal places again in regard to civilized vs uncivilized or wilderness.  Heck in many ways even the Trojan war is an example of Civilized vs uncivilized places and the liminal status of it.  

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When needed to fight, she did.


Curious as to where?  She is shown fightning the giants upon the Pergamon wall but again a later facet to the lore.  Much like the assumption of her children.

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She is a witch whose offerings made food for the poor.


That the poor consumed those Dinner's does not make it a fact she looked out for the poor.  Especially given that a lot of the info in regards to those dinners originates beneath Roman influence when the Greek references often has to do with passage to hades and the consumption of the bean dinners.  Which also ties back into the dead as beans were for the dead.

Even to the association of the Herme's that were placed at the cross-roads in her honor or the three facing herme's that were placed upon the entry ways of homes in the later periods.  yet that again doesnt truly go into the fact that the dneiper consisted of three parts and most of it was left overs not a true meal.  Things such as blood, water, bones, skin, etc.

The Supper's themselves were more an offering to the spirits of the dead (Vaguely recall wandering dead being a prime one) not for the poor or living though they often ate it.  But it had nothing to do with feeding the poor or Hekate's / Hecate's concern for the poor or destitude.

Even the usage of Witch is a suspect term.  In Greek literature she'd be called the guardian of Enchantresses or Sorceress (sp).  In many ways one does not really see a connection to "Witches" until the middle ages or later.

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She is the goddess of the in betweens.


What inbetweens?  She is the goddess of the cross-roads and associated to liminal spots as that denouted the boundary between civilization and the wilderness.  It also denoted the boundaries between recognized civilization and un-civilized yet non wilderness spots.  For instance parts of the Black sea region where her practice is found was considered un-civilized and a liminal place due to that fact.  A position held long into the Roman period and applied to Diana / Artemis as well.

The cross roads were also considered to be uncivilized and filled with danger.  The boundaries between the realms of her influence were also considered to be liminal and filled with danger.  Even the sea's where seen as a liminal place where heaven and earth sort of blurred into one and to look upon it was to be filled with a sense of dread or terror.  Hense many prayers to her by sailors which probably aided in spreading the word of her cult.

In many ways her influence seen and felt at non-places.  The problem arising that modern usage of liminal does not mean the same as it did in antiquity.  It's sort of like the fact she is listed as a Virgin goddess, it doesn't mean she was unknown to man only that she was not beholden to man.

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And even when we stop growing and start dying, we are in between always.


Not really.  We are where we are supposed to be as weaved upon the tapestry of life.  The only time we fall inbetween is when we stop doing and moving and have to be pushed.  Like the forsaken or restless spirits who die and have to be forced to move or punished as the case might be.

The only time one is inbetween is when they arrive at the stage of passing from one influence to another.  Yet those passages were often marked by strick ceremony and ritual.  Probably one of the best known is with Artemis and the sacrificng of children's things as the child passes into the influence of Demeter or Hera and away from Artemis as they come of age.

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She is at the crossroads as we all are when we decide anything. And we grow from those choices.


The Hecate / Hekate I know and follow gave me spirit and mind that I may make those decissions and suffer the consequences of my decissions.  She does not stand there awaiting my arrival for she gave me the keys to make those determinations myself.  Thus does she hold the triple keys and the guidance and ensieghts they convey or reveal.

Each cross-roads being a matter of what maybe, what will be and what has been.

I would also argue that a choice denotes growth.  A person may arrive at the cross-roads and retreat back from whence they came and that is not growth.  A person may elect to allow another to make their choices for them, again not growth.  Only when they make the choice themselves based upon their ability to make that choice and learn from it does one have growth.

But to claim Hekate / Hecate stands at the cross-roads to guide and inspire is no growth for it places the responsibility and outcome upon her.  So failure is not upon the shoulders of the one failing but upon the shoulders of the one who they lay claim upon for making it.

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Even the Chaldean Hekate ensouls the world.


Again debate as to does it mean breathes life into the body and world soul or conveys the symbolism and daemons to convey divine inspiraiton and guidance.  In many ways we guess at what the Chaldean oracles mean as most are in fragment form and we assume that Hecat is actually refering to Hecate.

Even when we think we understand it is still subject to many falicies as we must guess as to the meaning or usage of the ancient word.  "Dance the Stratopolis" is commonly identified as the source of Hekate's Wheel yet it's known a Stratopolis is an object spun about the head and was used in the Dneiper.  Probably cube shaped with many holes and potentially filled with embers or coals.

It also relies greatly upon the right mindset and application of beliefs with regard to the Chaldean Oracles and how one worked within them.  Far to many quote the Chaldean oracles as a source but then cherry pick how it will be applicable to their statements.  Claiming one result when the entirety of the system calls for not only belief and proper practice but also a sense of proper mind and commitment,

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I have been reticent to read UPGs except those here but am near set to buy a book of them. My hesitation, I think, stems from the potential discomfort I may feel at not recognizing in her what others seem to. Not that it would or wouldn't change my impressions, but I know myself and I would at first react pissy before chilling out about it and realizing there is no true ownership or validation of experience save for what oneself can have.


UPG is a true minefield.  Yet the thing is many of those UPG's may acutally be closer to SPG's (Shared Personal Gnosis) and gain some support due to the broad scope of followers and practitioner's arriving at the same spot.  But other's are so unique and individual that it raises great mistrust and doubt as to whether it is inspired by divine inspiration or simply ego on the part of the person arriving at it.
 
With Hekate / Hecate I find that many arrive at something they create and desire not something even remotely supported by any of her lore.  Granted specific offerings or rituals are difficult to say as much of that is missing from the records.  But much is also assumed and when pursued it many times falls into the "I don't know category" much like her Wheel figure today as to what its orgins are.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 04:33:02 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;55046
But that is a later addition to her lore....

... Again a later addition to the stories....
... it's not sure if it is original to the story or a later addition.


And other instances, but that's enough to make my point.

Are you positing that only the "original" story (whatever that may be - we have no way of knowing whether the oldest version of a story that has survived is "original" or if there were earlier variations that haven't survived to the present day, even assuming we can discern accurately what bits are older) is true/accurate, and that the story as it was told in later (but still ancient Hellenic) eras is somehow less a reflection of the Hellenic perception of whatever deity/ies it pertains to?

As I understand it, the quest for the oldest and "truest" form of a myth or story is very much part of an approach to scholarship that has been heavily discredited - scholars now take the position that a version of a story is "truest" in whatever time period it was the predominant version.

Also, equating older with truer sets up a hierarchy among reconstructionists, implying that those whose reconstructions focus on the oldest eras are more legitimate than those who focus on newer areas.

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UPG is a true minefield.  Yet the thing is many of those UPG's may acutally be closer to SPG's (Shared Personal Gnosis) and gain some support due to the broad scope of followers and practitioner's arriving at the same spot.  But other's are so unique and individual that it raises great mistrust and doubt as to whether it is inspired by divine inspiration or simply ego on the part of the person arriving at it.
 
With Hekate / Hecate I find that many arrive at something they create and desire not something even remotely supported by any of her lore.  Granted specific offerings or rituals are difficult to say as much of that is missing from the records.  But much is also assumed and when pursued it many times falls into the "I don't know category" much like her Wheel figure today as to what its orgins are.

 
You just fisked someone's post for the purpose of "debunking" their UPG because you don't share it.  I'm gonna say right now that if someone were to take one of your UPG-filled posts and do the same thing, you will get zero sympathy from me.

You're entirely free to reject someone else's UPG, but it's still their UPG.  Your "mistrust" of it is entirely irrelevant - and, I will note, falls no less into the category of UPG.  (And as a purely personal perception, based on the way each is presented, I see far more ego in your need to deconstruct her UPG to demonstrate why you think it's wrong, than I see in her original exposition of her UPG.)

Aside from that parenthetical personal observation, I'm speaking as staff - no staff hat because it's not an official warning, but positioning your own UPGs and interpretations as right and someone else's as wrong in this way is not gonna fly here.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 08:24:04 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;55073
As I understand it, the quest for the oldest and "truest" form of a myth or story is very much part of an approach to scholarship that has been heavily discredited - scholars now take the position that a version of a story is "truest" in whatever time period it was the predominant version.

I've never understood that idea that "oldest" would be "truest" as this assumes that the initial knowledge acquired about a deity is always more accurate than knowledge acquired later. This doesn't seem to be generally true of knowledge in general, so it seems weird to me to assume that would be true of knowledge of deities.

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You're entirely free to reject someone else's UPG, but it's still their UPG.  Your "mistrust" of it is entirely irrelevant - and, I will note, falls no less into the category of UPG.

Yes, UPG is UPG. It is very hard to say one person's UPG is more accurate than another person's UPG. One may appear to better fit the standard myths (and/or historical beliefs and practices) better than another, but so long as both are "uncomfirmed" which is more accurate is a matter of person opinion and not established fact.

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Aside from that parenthetical personal observation, I'm speaking as staff - no staff hat because it's not an official warning, but positioning your own UPGs and interpretations as right and someone else's as wrong in this way is not gonna fly here.

Speaking as a Host, it definitely will not fly here and if done too often I would consider it "rude and annoying".
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2012, 08:43:14 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;55073
And other instances, but that's enough to make my point.

Are you positing that only the "original" story (whatever that may be - we have no way of knowing whether the oldest version of a story that has survived is "original" or if there were earlier variations that haven't survived to the present day, even assuming we can discern accurately what bits are older) is true/accurate, and that the story as it was told in later (but still ancient Hellenic) eras is somehow less a reflection of the Hellenic perception of whatever deity/ies it pertains to?


Nope simply pointing out that to make an assumption based upon a period is dangerious.  Things get added by later periods for many reasons, reasons that typically are lost upon the later generations who read them.  Yet becomes seen as part of her lore without the benefit of the social influences of the times that added such facets.

To use a modern construct look at the once prominate position in regards to those of African descent and their brains.  Today debunked but still very much respected and accepted right up into the 1950's.  Yet anyone who looks upon any surviving material from that period hundreds of years from now what will they think?  Same thing with looking to the lore of ancient Rome and Greece, without looking at other issues which influenced it.

Hekate / Hecate is not the only god / goddess who has had many things added to her lore by later periods.  Bad thing with Hekate / Hecate is it usually seem's to be used to paint a darker and more narrow picture of her.  The further away from her origins it moves the narrow her persona becomes it seems.  But of course again that is my opinion.

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As I understand it, the quest for the oldest and "truest" form of a myth or story is very much part of an approach to scholarship that has been heavily discredited - scholars now take the position that a version of a story is "truest" in whatever time period it was the predominant version.


The quest to understand and relate the myths and stories to the social influences of the times is still a primary reason.  To understand the evolution of the myth points to the changes in social influences and cultural exchanges.

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Also, equating older with truer sets up a hierarchy among reconstructionists, implying that those whose reconstructions focus on the oldest eras are more legitimate than those who focus on newer areas.


Since I didn't imply that I see no reason to address it.
 
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You just fisked someone's post for the purpose of "debunking" their UPG because you don't share it.  I'm gonna say right now that if someone were to take one of your UPG-filled posts and do the same thing, you will get zero sympathy from me.


If I state something and can not support and defend it then it needs to be torn apart.  I'll either be able to defend with a logical argument or be forced to consider that I am wrong.  Seem's to me I proved that with our exchanges on Artemis and the feminist movement that I once held.

And no, I responded to a posting and addressed the points raised.  Points presented as if I should acknowlege them as fact ie You have read that she was the nurse to the baby Zeus while he was secreted away, no?

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You're entirely free to reject someone else's UPG, but it's still their UPG.  Your "mistrust" of it is entirely irrelevant - and, I will note, falls no less into the category of UPG.  (And as a purely personal perception, based on the way each is presented, I see far more ego in your need to deconstruct her UPG to demonstrate why you think it's wrong, than I see in her original exposition of her UPG.)


No ego at all.  Something was presented and I responded to it.  Where UPG on my part I clearly stated it was my opinion or thoughs

NO, my mistrust is not irrelevant to the situation.  Nor does my mistrust imply the persons UPG is wrong only that it has nothing to support it beyond their belief and as such does not come close to being SPG or something revealed to other practitioners of the same god / goddess.

Also that I did not attack their belief in a thing or idea but addressed the idea itself.

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Aside from that parenthetical personal observation, I'm speaking as staff - no staff hat because it's not an official warning, but positioning your own UPGs and interpretations as right and someone else's as wrong in this way is not gonna fly here.


But to shift focus and direct to you as an admin am I to assume that unless it is a cold historical fact that I am supposed not to address it?  That UPG is considered off limits as a point of discussion?  For any such discussion has to be based upon the position that one does not believe it as it is not thier own.  By the way I read your statement here that is not allowed for it implies attacking them.

No not trying to be a smart arse but really trying to discover where the line is drawn in the sand.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2012, 01:11:56 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;55073

Are you positing that only the "original" story (whatever that may be - we have no way of knowing whether the oldest version of a story that has survived is "original" or if there were earlier variations that haven't survived to the present day, even assuming we can discern accurately what bits are older) is true/accurate, and that the story as it was told in later (but still ancient Hellenic) eras is somehow less a reflection of the Hellenic perception of whatever deity/ies it pertains to?

As I understand it, the quest for the oldest and "truest" form of a myth or story is very much part of an approach to scholarship that has been heavily discredited - scholars now take the position that a version of a story is "truest" in whatever time period it was the predominant version.



Just chiming in to lend support, here.  It was super-common in the early days of folklore/myth scholarship to play PRIMAL ORIGINAL OLDEST OF OLD STORY that we'll just MAKE IT UP from whatever bits we deem ~most archaic~.  And what we identify as those bits usually has far more to do with our cultural-evolutionary fantasies of what "oldest EVER" is supposed to look like than, like actual historical evidence.  The historic-geographic school of folkloristics was actually intended to lend some data to that type of fantasizing -- this is the group that came up with the tale type index and motif indices, which tracked plotlines and story elements across time and cultures.  But theory marched on, and folklorists/mythologists have been criticising the concept of the "ur-story" for a long, long time.  Stories change and adapt to their circumstances, and every single version of a story is useful and interesting for what it says about the assumptions and priorities of the time and place in which it was told.  There are older versions, more widespread versions, versions which achieved prominence in particular times and places, better-told versions, and so on, but scholars long ago abandoned the concept of the One True Version of X Story.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2012, 06:49:21 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;55105
But to shift focus and direct to you as an admin am I to assume that unless it is a cold historical fact that I am supposed not to address it?  That UPG is considered off limits as a point of discussion?  For any such discussion has to be based upon the position that one does not believe it as it is not thier own.  By the way I read your statement here that is not allowed for it implies attacking them.
*** MOD HAT ON ***
You can assume what you want or actually read what Sunflower said and what I said in reply to that. UPG isn't off-limits for discussion, but countering it with other UPG isn't going to cut it -- at least not when written like you tend to write such things: rude, annoying, and often unable to see where you are going over the top.

People have been pulling their hair out dealing with some of your posts in the past and this is just another example of the problem. I'm tired of seeing it. You may not be technically breaking any rules but posts like the one in question here (and other posts in the past) are rude and annoying. Stop being rude and annoying now.
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Aubrey_Rose

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2012, 07:12:22 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;55016
I agree. No harm in reaching out. And I have done things like get crossroads dirt and leave things there. I live at a Y intersection and have left a shiny for her there. I found three little keys recently. I buried one. I tossed one up as high as I could and it landed on my roof. And I have the third saved on my little altar sandstone for when I go to the beach next. I will toss it into the sea. And there are other things in the works that I am planning with her in mind.

So I get your desire and drive. I think it comes from a lovely place and were I a goddess, I would enjoy and appreciate the efforts made. You've made me think that tomorrow it would be nice to reach out myself in a more formal ritual. Ritual always brings me peace and I could use some of that right now.:)

 
Me too!
I get such a calm feeling during rituals.
I'm actually a very ritual oriented person, I know a lot of people aren't but to each there own!
If we all lived a little greener, Then perhaps our children\'s children will live a little longer.
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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2012, 10:49:33 pm »
Quote from: Aubrey_Rose;55179
Me too!
I get such a calm feeling during rituals.
I'm actually a very ritual oriented person, I know a lot of people aren't but to each there own!

 
I hope you have a rewarding time!

And I am sorry to have inadvertently caused an unrelated argument. But just in case, please dont take my interpretation of some characterizations that I have read to be anything other than that.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2012, 11:03:36 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;55046
.


I didn't assert facts. I don't have those. I did point out how I could see Hekate as being a nurturer, and we may have different ideas about what that means.

I apologize for my own lingo causing misunderstanding. "Inbetweens" for me is what I call the liminal as that word exists today generally speaking.

I understand the reaction a bit though, and it is why I have been waiting to read of others UPGs until I am of more open mind. I am on the defensive too much due to other stressors and I don't want that to bleed through to the reading.

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Re: Hecate - Does anyone work with her?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2012, 04:00:06 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;55105
If I state something and can not support and defend it then it needs to be torn apart.  I'll either be able to defend with a logical argument or be forced to consider that I am wrong.  Seem's to me I proved that with our exchanges on Artemis and the feminist movement that I once held.

You confuse matters of fact - which is what I was correcting you on w/r/t feminism - with matters of personal experience.

Quote
NO, my mistrust is not irrelevant to the situation.  Nor does my mistrust imply the persons UPG is wrong only that it has nothing to support it beyond their belief and as such does not come close to being SPG or something revealed to other practitioners of the same god / goddess.

Which is exactly why your mistrust is irrelevant.  Sure, it's relevant to you - but it's not relevant to anyone else; they supply their own critical thinking.  And it's not relevant to the thread, since Annie was not in any way trying to position her UPG as something that should apply to anyone but herself.

You, OTOH, were positioning your personal interpretations as something that should apply to others' thinking.

Quote
But to shift focus and direct to you as an admin am I to assume that unless it is a cold historical fact that I am supposed not to address it?  That UPG is considered off limits as a point of discussion?  For any such discussion has to be based upon the position that one does not believe it as it is not thier own.  By the way I read your statement here that is not allowed for it implies attacking them.

No not trying to be a smart arse but really trying to discover where the line is drawn in the sand.

Very simple:  don't address it as if it was a matter of cold historical fact.

Of course, that does require an ability and willingness to distinguish between fact and personal experience/interpretation.

Sunflower
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 04:01:08 am by SunflowerP »
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