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Author Topic: Papa Legba UPG.  (Read 3254 times)

SatSekhem

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Papa Legba UPG.
« on: November 12, 2011, 11:13:19 am »
In the thread about Maman and the Baron there was some brief OT-ness about Papa Legba. I figured it would be best for all involved to give him his own post. (And you know, it'll flatter him, I'm sure. :D:)

My UPG so far with Papa Legba is that he is a jokester. He likes to dance around to random little beats that he sings to himself. The Hubby and I both refer to him as "the old man" which he finds both vastly amusing and incredibly sweet. He likes to jabber in my ear, a lot, about the most random things. He is very much an "OMG IT'S SHINY I MUST HAVE IT NOW!!!" kind of a guy. He just about chewed my ear off to get all of my skeleton and old keys on his half of the altar.

He doesn't seem to be easily offended, as far as I can tell, although I can become offended on his behalf.

I've read often that he likes to hang out by the front door for luck purposes. However, when I mentioned putting something over there for him, he was dead-set against it. As I mentioned in the previous thread, he asked to have an altar set up between him and my other two patrons, Sekhmet and Hwt-Hrw. I've looked high and low for a straw bag for him to place his things, but he said it isn't important. I was under the impression that it was. The one thing he desperately wants from me is an old, gnarled, limb-like walking stick, which he said I could place by my front door or atop it, if I so desired.

What are your UPGs on him?
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spoOk

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 03:19:46 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;29928
In the thread about Maman and the Baron there was some brief OT-ness about Papa Legba. I figured it would be best for all involved to give him his own post. (And you know, it'll flatter him, I'm sure. :D:)

My UPG so far with Papa Legba is that he is a jokester. He likes to dance around to random little beats that he sings to himself. The Hubby and I both refer to him as "the old man" which he finds both vastly amusing and incredibly sweet. He likes to jabber in my ear, a lot, about the most random things. He is very much an "OMG IT'S SHINY I MUST HAVE IT NOW!!!" kind of a guy. He just about chewed my ear off to get all of my skeleton and old keys on his half of the altar.

He doesn't seem to be easily offended, as far as I can tell, although I can become offended on his behalf.

I've read often that he likes to hang out by the front door for luck purposes. However, when I mentioned putting something over there for him, he was dead-set against it. As I mentioned in the previous thread, he asked to have an altar set up between him and my other two patrons, Sekhmet and Hwt-Hrw. I've looked high and low for a straw bag for him to place his things, but he said it isn't important. I was under the impression that it was. The one thing he desperately wants from me is an old, gnarled, limb-like walking stick, which he said I could place by my front door or atop it, if I so desired.

What are your UPGs on him?

 
I get from him the vibe of amiable laid back old man with a dirty playful old man sense of humour.
I don't generally imagine him having a cane,but certainly sitting on a stoop nodding to his own tune. always smiling ,so much that he's squinting.
he jumbles up and interferes with my tarot readings etc but not in a malicious way. I've never gotten the feeling of needing a cane or bag for him,but I've got the behind the door alter and he absolutely craves the candy and I've gotten the feeling he wants alot more rum,cigar smoke and coffee than I currently have offered. I leave him pennies in groups of three and candies in threes. also get urges to leave odd novelty candies in odd places at intersections. I never get white in terms of colour for him,but def. the black and red. I also have been endlessly searching for what I have come to figure,is his influence on me but....like some kind of missing words,magic verbal recipe,song,chant,story...something,related to him and have not yet found it. or HE hasn't found it through me....I haven't yet decided what's going on there with that,but have my suspicions.

as an aside.....
I had originally thought I was receiving two aspects of legba,the old papa and the young virile man...whom I always refered to as eshu.
who always appeared muscly fit and with a mischievous grin on his face,like he was about to start some sh*t or PANTS you or something. I also got a sexual vibe from him.
now I've had some chat with thee loverly swamp witch and she has suggested that the way she has seen it eshu is separate from papa,more the orisha side of things than lwa and more demonic,devilish in nature...which could explain the sexual aspect I get from him...even though in her experience she's never gotten anything sexual from papa or eshu etc.

I've not had any reason to see a change in how I have my alters as they both seem to like what I've presented so far.
I've tried to do the splashes of fresh water in the morning on the stone thing and I tend to not be a morning person so it often gets forgotten.
I'm wondering if morning could be interpreted as simply after midnight and thus I can splash the water on the stone at say 2am before I go to bed,or reverse......splash the water in MY morning...whenever I happen to get up.

in any case,the water seems to be very un enthusiastically received.
it gets accepted....but there's no fanfare....it's like when you feed the cat the mediocre dry kitty kibble,he watches....sniffs it...and then walks off and
later he will eat it but only if nothing else gets offered.

definatly very laid back,warm,funny but here and now vibes I get from them.
very different from the slightly serious,cool,serene or distantish feelings I get from hekate and the moon.

like papa is an electric blanket,the moon is a night light and hekate is your mom peeking in on you while your asleep,to make sure your asleep.
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 02:16:09 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;29928
What are your UPGs on him?

 

Manifestations and Representations[/u]
From the get-go, I've noticed that when it comes to Papa Legba, there is a mass of disinformation, uncertainties, half-truths, and the whole nine. When I first started exploring a relationship with him, I found myself confused just by what his veve looks like. I have seen representations in books like the one I have posted here, but I have also seen them look like this or like this. I've seen them all with a similar look and feel to them, but they're not the same. This in and of itself is problematic since the further you move into this, the more likely you are going to need to learn how to draw the veves of the Lwa you serve in some capacity or another. (If you do honest ritual in the service of the Lwa, then you'll need to learn to draw them and they like to have them drawn on their candle holders.) The veve that I have represented is the one that I most represents the Lwa in question.

The one thing that I've come to find in this is that the representations of Papa Legba are pretty much the same. He is often represented by different saints, however, more often than not it would appear that St Peter (the saint at the pearly gates) and St Lazarus (specifically when he is utilizing the crutches). The thing is that when you are looking for a representation of Papa Legba, there are certain characterizations that should always be shown.

The image of Papa Legba that you conjure in your mind's eye should always show an old man. This isn't to say that he should be ancient, but that the image should be of an older man. This should be made most apparent by the representations showing him leaning heavily upon a crutch.Papa Legba is not some twenty-something virile young man who can walk long distances. Your image of Papa Legba should have some association with keys, a gateway, or the crossroads. The reason for this is that Papa Legba is said to reside at the crossroads or at the gate. "During ceremonies, the entrance to the peristyle will be saluted during Legba's salutes. This is a way to honor the "home" of this Lwa, the gate. Living at the gate, Legba controls the entrance and departure of the Lwa into and out of the temple. Without his permission, no Lwa will be able to enter the peristyle and addressing the Lwa will go in vain." (As taken from Gade Nou Leve Society.) The thing is that Papa Legba lives by the gate and the crossroads: he is often times the Lwa who will show the way. He brings you choices that you must make, in the form of gateways and crossroads. This opportunity, from what I gather, is not as often as we (as humans) would appreciate and is seen not as a test, but as a sign of his affinity towards you.

Likes and Dislikes[/u]
All of the Lwa are very straight-forward (once you learn to "hear" them properly) with what they do and do not like, what they will and will not tolerate. We must not think so much of the Lwa as merely OTHERS™ who assist us, like us, or tolerate us, but also in a frame of reference of being human. They used to be human. And just like we are all very aware of what we do and do not like, so are the Lwa. The problem is that there are a lot of different people out there with a lot of different UPGs to gain information from. So, therefore, there is some confusion about what they want around them. From what I've seen, the following is what Papa Legba really does enjoy.

His color associations are red and black. I believe that the color red is likened to him because it represents courage and sacrifice. In having a relationship with this particular Lwa, both of these qualities can and may be needed, most especially if he decides to show you what options you have at the crossroads of his choosing. With the color black, I can safely say that it does not have the Western associations with death in regards to Papa Legba. For Papa Legba, I believe that to "...use the color black to convey elegance, sophistication, or perhaps a touch of mystery." (As taken from About-dot-com.) Moreso, I think it conveys the touch of mystery. In reality, we do not know what the choices we may have brought before us and it is that sense of mystery that is also a part of Legba. This is entirely UPG and you can throw it away as you will.

The items that are most often seen in his employ or in his representations are dogs, keys, gateways, crossroads, a crutch, a djakout, a pipe with tobacco, his veve, coffee, coconut, candy (especially with coconut), pennies, rum and the number three. His day of worship tends to be Monday.
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SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 03:53:20 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;38960



 
As a huge, quick aside: I am not an expert. This is MY way and MY UPG.
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spoOk

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 11:56:15 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;38969
As a huge, quick aside: I am not an expert. This is MY way and MY UPG.

 
thanks for that,it makes sense that I tend to picture him sitting on the wide porch of a white wooden house beside the front door,with stairs going up to the porch.

does your research and upg ever tell you if he prefers a certain time of day?
ive heard it's usual to request or look for him at dawn,any truth to that?
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 09:50:02 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;39053
thanks for that,it makes sense that I tend to picture him sitting on the wide porch of a white wooden house beside the front door,with stairs going up to the porch.

does your research and upg ever tell you if he prefers a certain time of day?
ive heard it's usual to request or look for him at dawn,any truth to that?

 
I've never heard of that. Every morning, though, I give him a fresh cup of coffee and he seems pleased by this. However, I do NOT get up anywhere near dawn. :D:
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SkySamuelle

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 06:33:33 am »
Quote from: SatSekhem;39177
I've never heard of that. Every morning, though, I give him a fresh cup of coffee and he seems pleased by this. However, I do NOT get up anywhere near dawn. :D:

It's the same for me, I barely 'sense' Legba at all, but he doesn't seem to want a real shrine from me. I keep his picture close my threshold, and sometimes a red candle to light up for him during offering time. This is where I leave my morning cup of coffee for him, and that's all he does seen to require. For now at least.

And I get the sensation my apartment threshold is where he wants to hang out and receive his stuff. While I was by parents house, it felt very awkward to leave his coffee by the window, or anywhere else.

By way, your description of Legba rocks, to put it simply and unelegantly. I am intrigued by your underlining that mystery is an funtamental part of his character.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 06:36:04 am by SkySamuelle »
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SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 12:32:11 pm »
Quote from: SkySamuelle;39217
It's the same for me, I barely 'sense' Legba at all, but he doesn't seem to want a real shrine from me. I keep his picture close my threshold, and sometimes a red candle to light up for him during offering time. This is where I leave my morning cup of coffee for him, and that's all he does seen to require. For now at least.

My Legba also resides near to the threshold of my home, although not as close as I would prefer. When I own my own home or move into an apartment where I am able, I plan on getting him a bookcase (Snow recommends bookcases since all Lwa accrue many things over the years) to be placed near the most often used door. I will also (hopefully) have a besom and his crutch placed above the door frame if the layout of said home allows.

I don't feel Legba very much, either, if it makes you feel any better. In sensing him, it's more generalized impressions. I know that this isn't the case with all Vodouisants and whatnot. Snow speaks with him often (usually in a "SHUT UP! I AM NOT INFO DROPPING!" kind of way and she sees him on occasion). I can only assume that our impressions of him are so slight because we are very new to this thing. Personally, I feel that I should be able to sense him more than I do because he is my first Lwa and, to me, a relationship that I want to continue, curry, and develop extensively.

However, the Deadz and Papa Ghede have other plans in store. Apparently. :whis:


Quote from: SkySamuelle
By way, your description of Legba rocks, to put it simply and unelegantly. I am intrigued by your underlining that mystery is an funtamental part of his character.

I feel the need to add that the part of the mystery and whatnot is entirely my UPG. I gave Snow a copy of what I had written here and she told me that I should add a caveat (if sharing) that I am not a mambo asogwe and that this is my UPG. She made it quite clear that in trying to unify a picture of Legba, I was doing so for myself, but in writing it in this manner, I was putting it out there that I'm some sort of expert. FEAR OF GODS PLACED IN MY HEART at this discussion. So, this is my UPG, but I'll explain further.

I see Papa Legba as an old man who lives at the crossroads and likes lots of things (keys, coffee, coconut, f'ex), but I don't feel that we, as humans, understand him well. Yes, he used to live on this plane as all Lwa have, however, he seems to be one of the oldest Lwa out there. So our understanding of him has faded as we have become more technologically advanced and far surpassed the way of life he may have lived. The mystery aspect stems from this, but also it stems from the multitude of choices he always has with him at the crossroads.

We always envision a proper crossroads as a four-way stop. However, this Lwa lives not at a four-way stop but an eternity-stop. There are so many different options that he holds out for us that we often (me, specifically, and at this juncture in my relationship with him) find ourselves very confused about which way is the best way.

And that, folks, is my Papa Legba.

Also, about the red and black colors. Snow told me and Legba wanted me to tell you guys that the color red is for his aspect as a Petro Lwa. He also has a Rada aspect and so, therefore, can also be symbolized by the color white. When I asked her about the color black, she said that no one was sure where it came from but a prevailing theory is that it symbolized the Congo nation or perhaps, Dahomey and home.
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SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 12:33:54 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;39268
Also, about the red and black colors. Snow told me and Legba wanted me to tell you guys that the color red is for his aspect as a Petro Lwa. He also has a Rada aspect and so, therefore, can also be symbolized by the color white. When I asked her about the color black, she said that no one was sure where it came from but a prevailing theory is that it symbolized the Congo nation or perhaps, Dahomey and home.

 
Also, I feel that I should mention something Snow said about my color representations: she said that it was very "Wicca" of me to do that. Vodouisants and practitioners do not assign emotions/representations/thoughts to colors. They only assign Lwa. ;)
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spoOk

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 12:01:44 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;39270
Also, I feel that I should mention something Snow said about my color representations: she said that it was very "Wicca" of me to do that. Vodouisants and practitioners do not assign emotions/representations/thoughts to colors. They only assign Lwa. ;)

 
I like this snow person,lol!
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SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 01:56:13 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;39586
I like this snow person,lol!

 
If you have a Twitter, you can find her via @SwampWitchery or you can check out her blog. It's been made private lately, but I don't know if that is true of all of her entries: Snow's Blog. You can also PM The Swamp Witch here on TC (since she created an account to aid us in the Baron Samedi thread). If she doesn't respond, just send me a PM so I can tell her to check her account.
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spoOk

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 04:02:20 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;39772
If you have a Twitter, you can find her via @SwampWitchery or you can check out her blog. It's been made private lately, but I don't know if that is true of all of her entries: Snow's Blog. You can also PM The Swamp Witch here on TC (since she created an account to aid us in the Baron Samedi thread). If she doesn't respond, just send me a PM so I can tell her to check her account.

 
oh so it's the same lady! ok,yeah we talked a bit on gmail chat,I was unaware of the snow name. she's great! and patient.
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

SatSekhem

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Re: Papa Legba UPG.
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 07:42:44 pm »
Quote from: spoOk;39886
oh so it's the same lady! ok,yeah we talked a bit on gmail chat,I was unaware of the snow name. she's great! and patient.

 
She is very patient!
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